How Does The Holy Spirit bear witness with us?

[AndrewK9]

Romans 8:16 says that the Holy Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God. How are ways the Holy Spirit does this? I have a Matthew Henry study bible and the commentary says this: "The Spirit of adoption was not then plentifully poured out. Also it refers to that spirit of bondage, under which many saints were at their conversion. Many speak peace to themselves, to whom God does not speak peace. But those who are sanctified, have God's Spirit witnessing with their spirits, in and by his speaking peace to the soul." Now this was not the exact way it's worded in mine, but very similar. I found this one on the internet.

Is the witness of the Holy Spirit supposed to be kind of like an intuition or kind of sense that you have that you're saved or something? The commentary in that verse says SPEAKING peace to the soul. How exactly does that work? I mean, if I say I am saved, how do I know if the Holy Spirit was the one whom gave me that ability to say I am saved or not, as in, how would I know if it was the Holy Spirit who gave me that ability or confidence of salvation and it wasn't my own doing like the commentary says? I mean is it sort of I understand and believe on the gospel and by just basing my assurance on what the scriptures say that I am saved or is it like something more than that in the way the Holy Spirit bears witness? How does he do this for us in certain ways? Thanks..

 

[asiyreh]

You just know Andrew, head to toe. There's some sense of what I can best describe as wholesome completion. It comes though from trusting Christ ALONE for justification. Some people like to place a chip on there ability to keep the Law, another chip on how many times they attend church a week, another over here on maybe a bit of left over grace from some saint.

Take all your chips and place them on Christ, then you might begin to feel a little more like a child of God.

 

[AndrewK9]

You just know Andrew, head to toe. There's some sense of what I can best describe as wholesome completion. It comes though from trusting Christ ALONE for justification. Some people like to place a chip on there ability to keep the Law, another chip on how many times they attend church a week, another over here on maybe a bit of left over grace from some saint.

Take all your chips and place them on Christ, then you might begin to feel a little more like a child of God.

Where else would I put any chips? Jesus is my justification. I am a sinner and don't deserve salvation but I can only be righteous in the sight of God because Christ died and shed his blood to purchase my salvation. He's the one who paid for my sins and rose again and I trust him to save me and take me to heaven on his merits. Not my own.
I have been praying for a while about discernment. To discern when a thought or idea enters my mind is from God or just my own conscience. Oftentimes, I will read something in the bible or see something and it will sometimes have to do or apply to some of the struggles that I have. Which I think is almost coincidental and perhaps God speaking to me. I was trying to tell the gospel to my family, and I was not sure, but I had a sense that the Holy Spirit was working on her by the expression on her face as I was talking about sin and why Christ died, you know..I will often look for an extrodinary degree of certainty to know if God is telling me something..

 

[timf]

I will often look for an extrodinary degree of certainty to know if God is telling me something..

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth.

Truth is the key to seeing the Holy Spirit work in us.

For example, if you read the words of Jesus when he says, "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesars..." you think, "Yea, that's true". Then you think, "Wait a minute, that really is true". You begin to see deeper truth, you are sure of truth.

The Christian has the freedom to quench the work of the Holy Spirit. This is usually done through living in the flesh and becoming entangled with the world (which Satan has designed to appeal to the flesh). When the Christian is walking in the flesh as opposed to the Spirit, he is not discerning of truth, distant from his Savior, and unsure about his salvation.

The objective of the Christian life is to mature into Christ-likeness (Eph 4). Anytime we try this we fail. It is the work of the Holy Spirit in us that can lead us to this maturity. We have to make ourselves available for this work. We do this by surrendering ourselves. Selflessness is the key to love (1 Cor 13).

 

[Girder of Loins]

I think you're on the right track. One thing to note: when the Holy SPirit convicts you, you will not feel shame. You will not feel put down so much that you feel like you will never move on. You will feel sorrow for not doing it, but with the knowledge that you can get through it. Shame is something the Devil uses. As you progress in Christianity you learn what that "still, small voice" is, and Who it comes from.

 

[AndrewK9]

I think you're on the right track. One thing to note: when the Holy SPirit convicts you, you will not feel shame. You will not feel put down so much that you feel like you will never move on. You will feel sorrow for not doing it, but with the knowledge that you can get through it. Shame is something the Devil uses. As you progress in Christianity you learn what that "still, small voice" is, and Who it comes from.

I don't know if I mentioned conviction. When I sin I almost immediately know I did something wrong and it offends God and I need to immediately repent of it. I once heard that you can tell the Holy Spirit convicts you of something it is always a specific thing. That's always it for me. I also get the sense when I do or watch something that it can become an idol or whatever and that I need to ask God to remove it from my life.

 

[asiyreh]

For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives. Hebrews 12:6

 

[insurchoftruth]

You can exprience and feel the love of God and his presence and that is how we experience the witness of the Holy Spirit. Also He makes us to want to do righteousness and to not want to sin.

Ephessians 3:19

 

[Alive_Again]

I mean, if I say I am saved, how do I know if the Holy Spirit was the one whom gave me that ability to say I am saved or not, as in, how would I know if it was the Holy Spirit who gave me that ability or confidence of salvation and it wasn't my own doing like the commentary says?

This witness of the Spirit of truth (in my understanding) is a "knowing" in your "know'er". Sometimes you'll get a feeling of power in your spirit that you can "feel". If you made a real committment to the Lord, and were sincere, your declaration of Jesus as Lord was real. The Lord honors the prayer of the heart.

... is it sort of I understand and believe on the gospel and by just basing my assurance on what the scriptures say that I am saved or is it like something more than that in the way the Holy Spirit bears witness? How does he do this for us in certain ways? Thanks..

Your assurance of salvation is based on your repentance (heart condition) and your trusting in His Word. The Word of His covenant, which we made with His own blood.

I would hold fast to this and not get to where you are looking too much at yourself. Just keep looking to the Lord, acknowledging His Word, His faithfulness, His blood.

Don't base your faith on your feelings. Let this knowing form on the inside of you. This will occur much faster if you're looking away from your self and focusing on Him. Work in the "leaven" of the Kingdom by praising and worshipping Him, acknowledging His Word to you and your love for Him. The feelings or witness will come.

You (we all) have a lot of things working "against" us, that seem to move us away from our focus on the Lord. Our flesh which often does not "feel saved", the enemy, and the atmosphere he creates to attempt to divert us from our walk of faith. But we can overcome by maintaining our focus, endeavoring to maintain works of love, expressions of His love. It keeps us producing fruit.

Enter into the rest of faith and abide there, thankful for the grace that is given unto you.

 

[trulyconverted]

Romans 8:16 says that the Holy Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God. How are ways the Holy Spirit does this? I have a Matthew Henry study bible and the commentary says this: "The Spirit of adoption was not then plentifully poured out. Also it refers to that spirit of bondage, under which many saints were at their conversion. Many speak peace to themselves, to whom God does not speak peace. But those who are sanctified, have God's Spirit witnessing with their spirits, in and by his speaking peace to the soul." Now this was not the exact way it's worded in mine, but very similar. I found this one on the internet.

Is the witness of the Holy Spirit supposed to be kind of like an intuition or kind of sense that you have that you're saved or something? The commentary in that verse says SPEAKING peace to the soul. How exactly does that work? I mean, if I say I am saved, how do I know if the Holy Spirit was the one whom gave me that ability to say I am saved or not, as in, how would I know if it was the Holy Spirit who gave me that ability or confidence of salvation and it wasn't my own doing like the commentary says? I mean is it sort of I understand and believe on the gospel and by just basing my assurance on what the scriptures say that I am saved or is it like something more than that in the way the Holy Spirit bears witness? How does he do this for us in certain ways? Thanks..

It is true that when God saves you, He lets you know.

For more than a decade I thought I was already a Christian but unfortunately I was not. When the Lord saved me just recently, He let me know.

Like someone else said, it is not a feeling but a "knowing" that the Lord has saved me.

When I sin, immediately the Spirit convicts me. Or when I am about to sin with my thinking. I like to describe it like 1 Samuel 24:5 "And afterward David's heart struck him, because he had cut off a corner of Saul's robe." Everytime this happens I am led to repentance. It's like a striking in your chest that makes you feel not good.

If you are asking these questions, it is best to go to the Lord and ask Him if you are truly born again. Has He converted you? Has He given you a new heart?

Salvation belongs to the Lord (Psalm 3:8). Only He can save.

All glory to God!

 

[AndrewK9]

It is true that when God saves you, He lets you know.

For more than a decade I thought I was already a Christian but unfortunately I was not. When the Lord saved me just recently, He let me know.

Like someone else said, it is not a feeling but a "knowing" that the Lord has saved me.

When I sin, immediately the Spirit convicts me. Or when I am about to sin with my thinking. I like to describe it like 1 Samuel 24:5 "And afterward David's heart struck him, because he had cut off a corner of Saul's robe." Everytime this happens I am led to repentance. It's like a striking in your chest that makes you feel not good.

If you are asking these questions, it is best to go to the Lord and ask Him if you are truly born again. Has He converted you? Has He given you a new heart?

Salvation belongs to the Lord (Psalm 3:8). Only He can save.

All glory to God!

Well I would never have changed myself, would I? I once liked living in my sin, but now I want deliverance from it. If temptation comes I know instantly I should not give into, because it would break God's law.
I once rebelled against God's authority but now desire to yield myself to it everyday.
The bible says no one seeks after God and that everyone is born completely dead to the things of God, I would say those things are a pretty good proof of my own salvation.
I have basically come to the conclusion that even if an angel came down from heaven to tell me I was saved, I would still have the capacity to doubt it. I have always personally demanded an extraordinary degree of certainty like Gideon in Judges 6:36-39. I was never diagnosed with OCD or nothing, but I have thought that I have it sometimes. So I have begun trying to just believe the word of God instead. I am not looking for other people to tell me I am saved, I am just trying to understand this. I want to live for God's will in my life, but I fail very very often to discern and live truly for him.

 

[trulyconverted]

Well I would never have changed myself, would I? I once liked living in my sin, but now I want deliverance from it. If temptation comes I know instantly I should not give into, because it would break God's law.
I once rebelled against God's authority but now desire to yield myself to it everyday.
The bible says no one seeks after God and that everyone is born completely dead to the things of God, I would say those things are a pretty good proof of my own salvation.
I have basically come to the conclusion that even if an angel came down from heaven to tell me I was saved, I would still have the capacity to doubt it. I have always personally demanded an extraordinary degree of certainty like Gideon in Judges 6:36-39. I was never diagnosed with OCD or nothing, but I have thought that I have it sometimes. So I have begun trying to just believe the word of God instead. I am not looking for other people to tell me I am saved, I am just trying to understand this.

First and foremost I would like to state that I am writing this to you in love.

It was not and still is not my intention to offend but as a Christian the Lord has shown me that in commencing a true Christian life a true conversion is necessary and this is not only true for me but also for everyone else.

Now in response to your latest post: Ezekiel 36:24-27...
I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land. I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

I pray that you see what the bible is trying to point out about salvation. God says "I will..." here as you can see. You see, if we start saying, we have done this and we have done that - it does not go with what God said with His "I will's..." in our lives on our salvation.

And in relation to how can we know that we are truly saved? Only the Spirit can pronounce us save, not me/myself/you/the evangelist/pastor. Romans 8:16 "The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God," YES the Spirit would let you know when it happens or thereafter. The bible says that this is the way (the proof) that one knows that one is a child of God.

This is only for info only: the book of 1 John. The whole book is written so that we can test ourselves if we are truly in the faith (1 John 5:13 "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.")

All glory to God!

 

[AndrewK9]

First and foremost I would like to state that I am writing this to you in love.

It was not and still is not my intention to offend but as a Christian the Lord has shown me that in commencing a true Christian life a true conversion is necessary and this is not only true for me but also for everyone else.

Now in response to your latest post: Ezekiel 36:24-27...
I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land. I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

I pray that you see what I am trying to point out about salvation. God says "I will..." here as you can see. You see, if we start saying, we have done this and we have done that - it does not go with what God said with His "I will's..." in our lives on our salvation.

And in relation to how can we know that we are truly saved? Only the Spirit can pronounce us save, not me/myself/you/the evangelist/pastor. Romans 8:16 "The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God," YES the Spirit would let you know when it happens. The bible says that this is the way (the proof) that one knows that one is a child of God.

This is only for info only: the book of 1 John. The whole book is written so that we can test ourselves if we are truly in the faith (1 John 5:13 "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.")

All glory to God!

I did not say that I did those things. God forbid I should glory save in the cross of Jesus! I am saying I believe it was God who produced those desires in me. If someone is unregenerate then they would not have the desire to want to love God, or live for God, right? I have been reading 1 John several times over.

But what confuses me is simply this, is what your saying that believing the scripture is not even good enough though, because I need to have some sort of "sense" of my salvation where I "just know" my assurance I get is coming from the Holy Spirit or not, in order to validate whether I have the right to believe the scriptures or not.

 

[trulyconverted]

I did not say that I did those things. God forbid I should glory save in the cross of Jesus! I am saying I believe it was God who produced those desires in me. If someone is unregenerate then they would not have the desire to want to love God, or live for God, right? I have been reading 1 John several times over.

But what confuses me is simply this, is what your saying that believing the scripture is not even good enough though, because I need to have some sort of "sense" of my salvation where I "just know" my assurance I get is coming from the Holy Spirit or not, in order to validate whether I have the right to believe the scriptures or not.

YES that is exactly what I am saying.

You see that is what I am trying to say, there is a real living God behind/beyond the Scripture. It is hard to explain properly, you have to experience it to know what I am talking about.

(John 5:39-40) "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life."

 

[AndrewK9]

YES that is exactly what I am saying.

You see that is what I am trying to say, there is a real living God behind/beyond the Scripture. It is hard to explain properly, you have to experience it to know what I am talking about.

(John 5:39-40) "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life."

This is where my confusion lies. I just want to continue turning from the world and my sin and serve God, but now you said I cannot believe the scriptures unless I 'feel' or 'sense something'. Could you please clarify what you are saying? Because I think I am even in greater doubt about whether or not I am saved...even if I have desires that God (I might believe) put there, to live the life pleasing to him, I still have to have some mysterious feeling? There are times where I have sensed a sense of peace because of Jesus' blood, but that is not good enough?

 

[trulyconverted]

You see my story goes way back to 1999 when I first received and believed the Lord Jesus (in a pentecostal church) and prayed a prayer of acceptance and got baptised (immersion of course). I loved Him, did what I could to follow Him, stayed in church, officemates/family/friends/everyone else knew I was a Christian. I was actually living like a Christian through and through.

But the Lord saved me only a few months ago. He made me a new creature - in reality. A new heart. A new spirit. He put his Spirit in me. That is why I know how it is because of the Lord's grace and mercy, He saved me. It happened at home. At one point I was myself - then the next, I was a new creature. He saved me.

Actually it is not a mysterious feeling. When the Bible says the Spirit witnesses with our spirit - it is truth, a reality.

And it is not a feeling, it is actually more of a "knowing". A "knowing" that He has saved me.

 

[AndrewK9]

You see my story goes way back to 1999 when I first received and believed the Lord Jesus (in a pentecostal church) and prayed a prayer of acceptance and got baptised (immersion of course). I loved Him, did what I could to follow Him, stayed in church, officemates/family/friends/everyone else knew I was a Christian. I was actually living like a Christian through and through.

But the Lord saved me only a few months ago. He made me a new creature - in reality. A new heart. A new spirit. He put his Spirit in me. That is why I know how it is because of the Lord's grace and mercy, He saved me. It happened at home. At one point I was myself - then the next, I was a new creature. He saved me.

Actually it is not a mysterious feeling. When the Bible says the Spirit witnesses with our spirit - it is truth, a reality.

I am glad you are saved, and I do believe he has given me a new heart. But now with what you said I am not sure. It's not because I did anything of praying a prayer. I believe I am saved because Jesus died to make me right with God on no basis other than that he shed hid blood on the cross for what I have done wrong the only day I can go back to that gives me any assurance I am forgiven is the day Jesus received the vinegar and said it is finished. By his power I want to live in victory, not my own. By the promise of God like the bible says I have been made a new creation, but I am confused because that is not the witness of the Holy Spirit then? How does someone then know if they are saved then?

 

[trulyconverted]

My life was completely changed. In a blink of an eye or less time than that. And that is without me doing anything at all. You see the "I will's..." of God in Ezekiel 36 are truth in reality. He does everything. Even the changes that I should do, He did for me and is continuing doing it for me. I am now totally dependent on Him. Life is Christ now. Without Christ - there is no life.

 

[AndrewK9]

My life was completely changed. In a blink of an eye or less time than that. And that is without me doing anything at all. You see the "I will's..." of God in Ezekiel 36 are truth in reality. He does everything. Even the changes that I should do, He did for me and is continuing doing it for me. I am now totally dependent on Him. Life is Christ now. Without Christ - there is no life.

Right, and I want to see him working in my life by the Holy Ghost too. Without Christ I would perish. Look, I know I cannot seek any acceptance with you, or any other person on this earth. Paul said the Lord is my judge not other people. God is the one who makes it possible for someone's life to change, right? I believe that he has done this to me, but I am not sure because of how I know if whether or not my sense of peace comes from God or from the devil. I have to check it with the scriptures right? I have watched Paul Washer's sermon on how to know you're saved and I see what he is talking about beginning to change. Don't get me wrong, I fail, and sometimes I wonder if I am even saved because of my failure but trust God to uphold me with his hand.

 

[trulyconverted]

Can I ask you what happens when you commit sin? How do you know that God is not pleased? This is not a trick question.