How do you approach people about false prophets like Joyce Meyers?

[CounselorForChrist]

I didn't want to bring this topic up because most people I know listen to these people. But it seems everyone I know is into people like Joyce Meyers and Joel Olsteen. Even my fiancé likes somethings Joyce Meyers says.

How do you go about approaching people to tell them they are listening to false prophets like this?

I've lost many friends in the past trying to tell them about this stuff and it makes me hard to want to say anything anymore. I try telling them in the end there will be many false prophets before Christs return. But as soon as I mention this they accuse me of judging them and/or that preacher. Then they don't talk to me anymore.

I am not comparing atheists to these people but I fell like its the same problem. IF you approach an atheist and say "Your a sinner and are going to hell!" They put of defenses. Christians are the same way when it comes to trying to tell them they are doing something wrong. THey put up their defense too. My aunt when I told her at the end of the conversation said she rebuked me in the name of the lord. I was like

So how do I go about this? I don't want to stay quiet about it because I care about people and what they do. I guess you can call it righteous anger. Although not really anger as much as it is being corrective.

Thanks for any help, and yes I expect a lot of not so happy posts.

 

[powerpoint]

So how do I go about this? I don't want to stay quiet about it because I care about people and what they do. I guess you can call it righteous anger. Although not really anger as much as it is being corrective.

Frankly mate, I think you look at this logically. You do have the right to say "I don't agree with Meyer/Osteen/Hinn/Whoever" and list your reasons why. And I say that because there is every chance that these guys are flawed teachers, not false ones. You, of course, do have the right to disagree with someone and present those disagreements in a rational, well thought out way.

What you don't really have the right to do is to say "Meyer/Osteen/Hinn/Whoever is a false prophet and their leading you to hell". I say this because its condemnative, not loving and judgemental. You need to let people use their own spiritual gift of discernment to determine what is best for them in their walk with God. It isn't for you to tell them one thing if the spirit tells them something else.

 

[Fiona01]

I agree with you for the most part, there, Powerpoint! I think there are positive ways to get your point across rather than coming across as judgemental.

However, if a teaching from one of these preachers is out there, and two Christians are hearing it, one truly believing and accepting, the other rejecting and offended, then it's going to cause conflict....Because in that case, who really is guided by Holy Spirit? Both believe they are.

So the message these preachers are putting out there SHOULD be judged (in a sense??), as even Jesus said we had to look at the fruit of the tree, because if it produces bad fruit, it should be cut down.

This is a tricky one!

Xfreadazoid - I think you're doing the right thing by pointing out what you see and believe, but I guess when it comes down to it, you have to respect that they too have a right to decide if they believe the message they're hearing.You can tell them, but can't really expect them to give up what they feel they've learned from these people if it means something to them.

 

[powerpoint]

However, if a teaching from one of these preachers is out there, and two Christians are hearing it, one truly believing and accepting, the other rejecting and offended, then it's going to cause conflict....Because in that case, who really is guided by Holy Spirit? Both believe they are.

So the message these preachers are putting out there SHOULD be judged (in a sense), as even Jesus said we had to look at the fruit of the tree, because if it produces bad fruit, it should be cut down...

Firstly, thank you for putting your point across in such a nice, well thought out way. I see exactly what your saying with your first part, and I agree to a point. I would suggest its really down to the individual to trust in their gift of discernment to determine how the spirit leads them.

I agree the message should be judged, but I dont think the preacher should be, as the original poster implies. I cringe at the terms "False teachers" and "false prophet" because they come pre-loaded with massive amounts of steriotype and inferrance.

I preach quite a bit as I'm an associate pastor in a small church and I know some of the stuff I've come out with has not gone down well. Some of the stuff I have come out with has gone down very well. I preach and I learn as I go, the same as we all do. I am not a false teacher, I am a flawed one, but not a false one.

So consider Joel Osteen. He comes out with some stuff thats not great, he doesn't teach on sin and repentance, his Bible knowledge isn't brilliant. But he also has an amazing understanding of how powerful God is and of God's love for people and the promises of God. Do we label Joel Osteen a false prophet (OP's term, not mine) because one or two aspects of what he says don't jive? if so, then surely all people are false prophets because no one has a perfect Biblical understanding?

I think what I'm rambling my way to saying is that I think we need to trust more in God's power to work in people through discernment and recognise that, whilst something might not be right for us, it might be right for someone else.

 

[Fiona01]

Some of the stuff I have come out with has gone down very well. I preach and I learn as I go, the same as we all do. I am not a false teacher, I am a flawed one, but not a false one.

I think this illustrates the point perfectly. Nobody is perfect, it doesn't mean they don't follow Christ's teachings and that they are not trying to get things right for the Lord. By nature we are flawed, and I guess nobody is going to be the "perfect preacher" to everybody.

I think this is where the issue can be a problem - we start to judge the preachers themselves, which is something we need to avoid.

If the messages they convey don't sit right with you, Xfreak, then you're totally doing the right thing by avoiding it yourself and you have every right to share that feeling of being uncomfortable with it all - still though, ultimately cannot change other peoples perceptions. We all learn and grow in our own way.

 

[BFine]

According to your post you state: "Even my fiancé likes somethings Joyce Meyers says."

There's nothing wrong with that...people can say some good things or make a good point...even if their names are Joel Osteen or Joyce Meyers.

You can like "somethings" and cut out what your don't agree with.
You can....
Uphold the essentials of the Christian faith and be the best imitator of Christ
that you can be.

According to the aforementioned people (Osteen & Meyers)
they still cling to the essentials of the Christian faith (I just checked their current
What We Believe status.)

I do think they have some teachings (or interpretation) on certain scriptures that I find out of line but it doesn't disqualify them as Christians. There are lots of Christians who view/ or interpret certain scriptures differently than others...that is why we have
so many different denominations.

Jesus said He would set all this to right when He returns.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

I need to correct myself. I didn't mean false prophets as much as I meant false teachers. Also I wouldn't say they were going to hell for listening to them. I would just want people who do listen to people like Myers to realize they may be living some aspects of their life wrong because of what they have heard.

My struggle has always been finding the right pastor/preacher...etc that believes exacty as the bible says. Therefor I consider people like Meyers to be to dangerous to listen to. For example (correct me if I am wrong), she said Jesus literally went to hell, instead of dying on the cross and fought the devil to save our souls.

So yeah thats my view. To many people I know listen to what a pastor says instead of thinking if what he says is accurate. Does it come from the bible or is he twisting it? another example is with Joel Olsteen many people I know that like him believe you should never talk negative in life, only positive 100% of the time. If you talk negative then your not being a good christian.

My moms friend called us and asked how we were, my mom simply said "Oh <my dads name> has to have back surgery after an injury at work. THings will be ok though." The lady got mad at said she didn't want to hear that negativity, she said she did not call to hear such things. Then she even said we needed to be positive and that if we prayed harder then there would be no injuries...etc. THen she said she didn't want to talk to us again and we haven't spoke for years now.

So as you can see people need to listen to the bible to make sure their teachers are correct. Although really if your a long time christian you should know when you hear something incorrect such as the fact the bible does not say you need to be positive 100% of the time and avoid things like hearing about peoples problems or that you should avoid people that have any issue.

It borders on people that are in cults. They drink the pastors kool aid without asking any questions to make sure he's getting his facts directly from the bible. Then when they die they don't understand why God is disappointed with them. >.<

 

[Joy]

While I may not agree with these preachers I would not label them as false prophets

 

[Johnnz]

My struggle has always been finding the right pastor/preacher...etc that believes exacty as the bible says. Therefor I consider people like Meyers to be to dangerous to listen to. For example (correct me if I am wrong), she said Jesus literally went to hell, instead of dying on the cross and fought the devil to save our souls.

So yeah thats my view. To many people I know listen to what a pastor says instead of thinking if what he says is accurate. Does it come from the bible or is he twisting it? another example is with Joel Olsteen many people I know that like him believe you should never talk negative in life, only positive 100% of the time. If you talk negative then your not being a good christian. <

The big issue here is the assumption (that's all it is) that your view of what the the bible teaches is correct. I have often found the actual biblical message is far wider and grander than what I was previously led to believe. It most often was other, wonderful Christian teachers and scholars who have helped me so much.

John
NZ

 

[Pal Handy]

I refer people who need inner healing from past traumas to some
Of Joyce's books because she does a very good job of showing
people the healing power of God to transform a broken and wounded spirit
into a healed and blessed child of God who can put their past behind them
and live a life free from condemnation, guilt and shame.

How many books have you written that have help millions of people?

I do not think that people should be labeled "all something" especially something as
strong as "false prophet" unless you have absolute proof because each person has
good points and some down side to their lives so that you cannot sum up a persons
entire life without being a hypocritical judge yourself.
You are bringing judgement on yourself if you falsely accuse someone
of such a serious charge as being a false prophet and you are wrong.

What could people label you as?

What if I heard you lying to someone and then I branded
you as a liar for the rest of your life no matter how virtuous of a person
you were 99 percent of the time, to me you would always be a liar.

So maybe Joyce has said something you don't agree with but that doesn't
make her a false prophet any more than you telling a lie would brand you for all
time as a liar for the rest of your life.

Why have you slandered Joyce's whole life by accusing her of something you have no proof of?

If you have a specific issue with Joyce then perhaps we could talk about
it instead of you lumping her whole life and all her good deeds into your
bigoted, biased, lopsided, narrow minded and uninformed viewpoint
of her life and then making those who like what she is doing feel as if
you are condemning them also with your bad judgements.

Joyce belongs to Christ so are you saying she is of the devil?

I see a lot of good in Joyce Meyers ministries and even though there
are some things I might take issue with, I will not write her whole life
off and flush her down the toilet on a disagreement.

God is the judge of Joyce's life, and so if you do not like her, don't listen.

Like I said before, how about I follow you around for a day or two and
see what kind of critical and biased judgement I could make about
you and then brand your whole life as garbage as you have done to Joyce.

Luke 9
Jesus Forbids Sectarianism

49 Now John answered and said, &#8220;Master, we saw someone casting
out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because
he does not follow with us.&#8221;
50 But Jesus said to him, &#8220;Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is on our side.&#8221;

Joyce is not against Jesus...

 

[Johnnz]

Agreed. Bravo

John
NZ

 

[Pal Handy]

Agreed. Bravo

John
NZ

Thanks...

 

[CounselorForChrist]

She has off beliefs. The fact many here..ok most here are saying shes not bad concerns me. Read this and try to say shes ok to listen to:
Joyce Meyer - False Preacher

Heres one of MANY verses that talks about people like her:
"2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths." (2 Timothy 4:2-4, NASB)

If anyone cares to say everything in that article is wrong please explain to me why. Lastly I say this is just more proof of what the bible says. It says many will claim to be christian, but are not. It also says many will follow false prophets and teachers.

 

[Pal Handy]

She has off beliefs. The fact many here..ok most here are saying shes not bad concerns me.

You concern me...
Most of the people here who name Christ as their savior have "off beliefs"
and you seem to be pushing your beliefs against another Christian
on this forum for what? What do you hope to accomplish?

Do you think that Joyce is the devil when she says that Jesus descended
into the depths of the holding place of the dead from the Old testament?

Ephesians 4:9
(Now this, &#8220;He ascended&#8221;&#8212;what does it mean but that He also first
descended into the lower parts of the earth?

1 Peter 4:6
For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead,
that they might be judged according to men in the flesh,
but live according to God in the spirit.


You could be wrong because this is a grey area and has nothing to
do with salvation because Joyce preaches Christ as the only way to the Father....

Who is Robert Wise?
What is his agenda?
Why does he find the one or two things of disagreement and label
Joyce as false when I am sure I could find holes in his theology
and do the same to him if I so desired to divide the body of Christ.

I think that he is a malcontent who makes his living trying
to pull down others and spread dissention among the body of Christ.

So what if there is a disagreement in HOW MUCH CHRIST SUFFERED.

ROBERT WISE DOESN'T KNOW ALL THINGS.

 

[Pal Handy]

What We Believe

Statement of Faith: Joyce Meyers


The Bible is the infallible Word of God, inspired by the Holy Spirit, and contains every answer to man's problems.

2 Timothy 3:16,17; 2 Peter 1:20,21


There is one God, existing eternally in three persons: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

John 10:30; John 14:26; Philippians 2:5-7


God is Love and He loves all people. It is His desire to reach out to those who are poor, oppressed, widowed or orphaned, and to heal the brokenhearted.

Psalm 68:5,6; 1 John 4:16


Man is created in the image of God but separated from God by sin. Without Jesus we cannot have a relationship with God.

Genesis 1:26; 1 Timothy 2:5


We can have a personal relationship with God through salvation, God's free gift to man. It is not a result of what we do, but it is only available through God's unearned favor. By admitting we have sinned and believing in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, and accepting Him as Lord, we can spend eternity with God.

Ephesians 2:8,9; Romans 5:1; Romans 3:24


We believe in water baptism, as taught and demonstrated by Jesus, as the way for believers to identify with the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus.

Matthew 28:19; Romans 6:4; Matthew 3:13-17


The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a gift from God. He helps empower the believer to develop the character of Christ and live every day in God's will.

Matthew 3:11; Acts 2:4


God gives all believers spiritual gifts. They are for the strengthening of God's people (the Church) and proof of God's existence and power to unbelievers. The gifts of the Spirit are active and relevant today.

1 Corinthians 12:4-11; 1 Peter 4:10


Sanctification is the ongoing process of allowing God's character to be developed in us.

Romans 6:19; Galatians 5:22-25


Divine healing is active in the lives of people today through Jesus, who is the Healer. Healing includes physical, mental, emotional and spiritual restoration.

Luke 9:11; Matthew 9:35; Acts 10:38; Matthew 10:1


The Bible describes hell as a real place. It is a place of suffering and a place of permanent separation from God for those who die without accepting Christ. God's desire is that no one be separated from Him for eternity, which is why He sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to earth.

Hebrews 9:27; Revelation 20:12-15; John 3:16-18


Jesus will return and take all those who have accepted Him as Savior to heaven for eternity.

Acts 1:11; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17; Hebrews 9:28

 

[StoneWater]

No idea on what she teaches, really, just saw some show like twenty years ago, didn't seem bad to me.

What is bad about what she teaches?

 

[Pal Handy]

Was Peter a "FALSE" teacher?

When Peter made a mistake and Paul had to correct him was Peter
outside of God's grace and now an enemy of Christ?

Galatians 2:11
[ No Return to the Law ] Now when Peter had come to Antioch,
I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed;

Did Paul denounce Peter as a false prophet and tell others to
stay away from Peter and to follow himself instead?

Paul did not CONDEMN but corrected.

Robert Wise is condemning by calling Joyce a false teacher which
has a very condemning and unredeemable meaning attached to it in the word of God.


Brother...don't get into the mode of condeming people as
false and telling people their minstries are all wrong simply
because they do not have all the answers and make mistakes.

Joyce preaches the gospel so those who hear her can find salvation
so if I were you I would let it go and I would concentrate on
a way to do one tenth of one percent of the good works
that Joyce Meyers ministries does around the world.

Whose side are you on when you condemn someone
who peaches the gospel to millions?

When you put the label of FALSE PROPHET or TEACHER on someone you are implying
they are an enemy to God and so they do not belong to Christ.

Matthew 7:2

Amplified Bible (AMP)
1DO NOT judge and criticize and condemn others,
so that you may not be judged and criticized and condemned yourselves.

2 For just as you judge and criticize and condemn others, you will be judged and
criticized and condemned, and in accordance with the measure you [use to] deal out to others,
it will be dealt out again to you.


ps I am correcting you and not condemning you.

 

[paul1149]

XF,

I think you're being way too critical of Meyers and Osteen. They do an enormous amount of good, and frankly, I seldom catch them in outright errors. They may not stress the things that some people think they need to stress, but the Body is varied, and not all have the same calling. Meyers is an exhorter, and Osteen is an encourager. And there's plenty of room for both of them as I see it.

What's more, both ministries are being used evangelistically. The saddest thing here is when one part of the Body becomes unjustifiably critical of another part. This tears the whole Body down. We have enough real problems that we shouldn't go around making up ones.

I frankly think you should take the negative response your friends have given you and give it careful consideration.

 

[NoelAsa]

xfreakazoidx, do you have some sort of bias against Joyce Meyer? You really have not provided much of anything to support your statement of her being either a false prophet or teacher. The link you provided Joyce Meyer - False Preacher I have read before and I disagree with it. As for Ephesians 4:9 that is open for debate. I don't think anyone really knows what that is describing. If Joyce Meyers thinks that it means Jesus went to hell she might be right or wrong. I personally like her and have been helped by her writings as I know other people have. I also know that some people don't like her, but it is mostly because of her teaching style and not because they view her as a false teacher.

I have read a few of Joel Olsteen's books and watched his show, but I am not drawn to him. I don't listen to him, but I know people who really like him. I am happy that they have found someone that they can relate to. Just because I am not interested in him does not mean that I view him as a false prophet or teacher.

There are thousands of people preaching the Word of God. Just because you might not agree with everything someone says does not mean that they are false. I think that you are being to critical and judgmental.

 

[Pal Handy]

Do you know how to tell a false prophet?

It isn't what you think...

A person can be mistaken and that doesn't make them
a false prophet, it just makes them wrong.

Acts 18
Ministry of Apollos

24 Now a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent
man and mighty in the Scriptures, came to Ephesus.
25 This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being
fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things of the Lord,
though he knew only the baptism of John. 26 So he began to speak boldly
in the synagogue. When Aquila and Priscilla heard him, they took him aside
and explained to him the way of God more accurately.

So was Apollos a false teacher or false prophet because he
was still preaching the baptism of John and not the gospel
of Christ?

God looks at the heart and He knows those who are His.

Matthew 7
21 &#8220;Not everyone who says to Me, &#8216;Lord, Lord,&#8217; shall enter the
kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, &#8216;Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied
in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders
in Your name?&#8217; 23 And then I will declare to them, &#8216;I never knew you;
depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!&#8217;

So if these used Christ's name and called Him Lord and had all the
appearances of being Christians, how will we be able to tell the
false from those who belong to the Lord even though they do not
always have all the correct answers to everything?

The false prophet could have all the right answers but still
not belong to Christ so how can we know the difference between those
that belong to the Lord and those who do not?

I went through this...
I lived this with a man who said 99 percent of the right things
but he was as far from the heart of God in his heart as you can be...

Here is what God led me to.

Matthew 7
You Will Know Them by Their Fruits

15 &#8220;Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep&#8217;s clothing,
but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits.
Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

Joyce Meyers has the fruit of the Spirit in her life as exampled by her heart that
reaches out all over the world with helping hands, medical help, medicine, housing,
food and clothing as she preaches the gospel of Christ to the poor.