How can Christians explain Numbers 31 17-18?

[Timi Celcer]

17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

 

[IndyEllis]

17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

I'm not fully sure but I believe Numbers 31 is Yahwist and YHWH has his origins as a patron war god of Israel.

I read the passage as henotheistic, nationalistic, and contemporary to its time and place in its morality as well as understanding of deities.

Could be wrong though.

 

[Dunban]

17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

A few things...

1. The text says Mosessaid that, not God/Yahweh. So that's the first thing to keep in mind.

2. It's part of the Jewish holy book, so I don't really see why Christians are obligated to have to explain what is written in their book.

3. It could be just as Indy said. Yahweh was no doubt a war god in the beginning stages of his worship. Obviously, since then, ideas about God have evolved and come along way since then. For ancient Israel, Yahweh was a warrior (Yahweh is a man of war, that is his name, Exodus 15:3). To the Hebrews, their God was in charge of war and had a host of armies he ruled over. When the Jews won a battle, it was because Yahweh willed it. When they lost, they were being punished. This was their belief at the time.

It is possible it was the J or Jahwehist interpretation that wrote in those verses. I don't know. JEPD hypothesis has been around a long time and isn't without merit.

In the end, however, I see no reason to debate or argue over what the text attributes Moses as saying. I'm not a Jew, nor a follower of Moses, nor do I think of God as a war god per se. It's all a matter of interpretation.

 

[timewerx]

Spoils 'o war...

Why else would you save foreign virgin girls? They make far better maids/servants than married women? They are way better at cooking and cleaning the house?

Good thing we don't hear much of OT scriptures in churches anymore, except for the parts that God wants us to be rich.

 

[IndyEllis]

1. The text says Mosessaid that, not God/Yahweh. So that's the first thing to keep in mind.

Meh.

I've seen plenty of sockpuppeting over the years.

 

[IndyEllis]

except for the parts that God wants us to be rich.

As I was sayin'.

 

[hedrick]

I assume you find this troublesome because killing whole populations is something Christians today would consider evil. I know of two answers. Maybe there are more I don't know of:

The conservative answer I've seen most commonly is that these were particularly evil people. Also, Israel was at an early stage of its development. It couldn't coexist with pagans without being corrupted.

However I think the real answer is a bit different. First, archaeologists (except conservative Christian archaeologists) tell us that this part of the Bible is not accurate history. The early history of Israel was not completely peaceful. It wasn't a peaceful time in human development. Quite likely early Israel did at times fight for land, since that's what people did at that time. But the current thought is that Israel was mostly made of people of Canaanite background, who would not have had to fight this kind of war. At any rate, I very much doubt that God actually commanded this kind of thing. In reading the OT I tend to let the prophets interpret it for me. They came to see the proper role of Israel as being a light to the Gentiles, not a conqueror. I'm sure the OT reflects attitudes that actually existed at the time. I just don't think God approved of all of them.

For a reasonable summary of the issues with the OT historical accounts, see The Bible and history - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. (I should note that this article is stronger in its treatment of the OT than the NT. For the NT you'd want a more detailed examination of the historical Jesus work. The summary of NT work in the article is kind of random.)

 

[IndyEllis]

I assume you find this troublesome because killing whole populations is something Christians today would consider evil.

You may need to get to know more Christians...

 

[timewerx]

The early history of Israel was not completely peaceful. It wasn't a peaceful time in human development. Quite likely early Israel did at times fight for land, since that's what people did at that time. But the current thought is that Israel was mostly made of people of Canaanite background, who would not have had to fight this kind of war. At any rate, I very much doubt that God actually commanded this kind of thing. In reading the OT I tend to let the prophets interpret it for me. They came to see the proper role of Israel as being a light to the Gentiles, not a conqueror. I'm sure the OT reflects attitudes that actually existed at the time. I just don't think God approved of all of them.

In a nutshell, Jews/Judeans adapted to the difficulties they face to better survive and conquer/control their enemies.

Their pattern of behavior is best seen in the Babylonian Talmud which the teachings was developed during the Babylonian exile and also taught and practiced by the Pharisees.

But we see clearly that Jesus did not approve these behaviors even for the sake of survival or adaptation. Jesus saw it as evil. It's for these refutations that Jesus eventually paid His life for.