His seed begging bread?

JimB · Oct 30, 2004

I would like to hear your views on a scripture I have had difficulty understanding. Here it is, Psalm 37:25 KJV:

I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.

I have looked it up in every available translation and that is just what it says.

I have never seen the righteous forsaken by God but, honestly, I have seen his seed begging bread:

Christian men who have been laid off and needing help.

Mothers of toddlers whose husband has abandoned them.

What about the widows of the New Testament?

Dare I mention Job?

Et cetera.

Have you ever known a needy Christian? I have.

Sometimes Christians fall on financial hard times. I believe thats a fact that cannot be denied.

So, what does the phrase I have not seen . . . his (the righteous) seed begging bread mean?

I have decided that the clue must be in the word righteous. If you define righteous here as doing the right thing the right way doing things Gods way you will not lack. If you obey all the scriptural instructions regarding dealing with life, money and finances you will, of course, be wise and so will not lack any good thing (Ps. 34.10).

What do you think?

\o/

songbird88 · Oct 31, 2004

YOu are quite right in thinking that the only variable in the equation is R (righteous).

Righteous means right stating or correct standing.

There are many kinds of righteousness. We most often think of righteousness as being in relation to God... or the righteousness of God. This means right standing or correct relation with God. Prisons are full of men who are in correct standing with God but who are in bad standing with the state. Others are in bad standing with their parents, their school, their wives, or any other level of correct standing.

If you have been suspended from CF for bad posts then you are unrighteous before the staff of CF.

So when Daved said that he never saw the righteous begging for bread... he was referring to a special level of righteousness that is over and above mere right standing with God. It included having a "karma" (please excuse the term) that is in good shape. They are in good standing with nature, life, family, and every other "realm" that might possess a level of justice that includes rewards and punishments. They have given so they also receive. They have blessed so they are also blessed. They have feed the poor so they never have to worry about being hungery. Very simply.... they reap the provisions that they have sown.

Hope this makes sense...

Jim M said:
I would like to hear your views on a scripture I have had difficulty understanding. Here it is, Psalm 37:25 KJV:
I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.

I have looked it up in every available translation and that is just what it says.

I have never seen the righteous forsaken by God but, honestly, I have seen his seed begging bread:

Christian men who have been laid off and needing help.

Mothers of toddlers whose husband has abandoned them.

What about the widows of the New Testament?

Dare I mention Job?

Et cetera.

Have you ever known a needy Christian? I have.

Sometimes Christians fall on financial hard times. I believe thats a fact that cannot be denied.

So, what does the phrase I have not seen . . . his (the righteous) seed begging bread mean?

I have decided that the clue must be in the word righteous. If you define righteous here as doing the right thing the right way doing things Gods way you will not lack. If you obey all the scriptural instructions regarding dealing with life, money and finances you will, of course, be wise and so will not lack any good thing (Ps. 34.10).

What do you think?

\o/

FoundInGrace · Oct 31, 2004

I also have been puzzled by such proverbs as
'No harm befalls the righteous, but the wicked have their fill of trouble' Pr 12: 21, and 'The righteous eat to their hearts content, but the stomach of the wicked goes hungry. Pr 13:25 etc - quite a number in Proverbs where 'the righteous' seem to be kept from 'troubles', because the world doesn't seem to work that way sometimes for some good people out there. I read a book on Proverbs which said it is a book of general priniciples not absolute guarantees as such. Guess theres the will of God involved somewhere in there also - the Lord gives and takes away, blessed be the name of the Lord.

However, on the whole, I think your interpretation is right about the righteous part of the verse.

If a man (saved or not I might hesitate to say..?) follows the paths of righteousness his children's children will, as Prov 13:22 says, be left an inheritance. That inheritance would probably include good character, wise relationships, habit of working hard, the skills to be a wise servant of their money, etc just good life skills really. It makes sense that they wouldn't go hungry with all that going for them! A righteous life makes a lot of sense, not just spiritually but practically.
And thats a long rant for this time of the day.. time for sleep

Svt4Him · Oct 31, 2004

Job was righteous. Perhaps it was that the author hadn't seen that. I don't know.

Theophilus7 · Oct 31, 2004

Jim M said:
I would like to hear your views on a scripture I have had difficulty understanding. Here it is, Psalm 37:25 KJV:
I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.

I have looked it up in every available translation and that is just what it says.

I have never seen the righteous forsaken by God but, honestly, I have seen his seed begging bread:

Christian men who have been laid off and needing help.

Mothers of toddlers whose husband has abandoned them.

What about the widows of the New Testament?

Dare I mention Job?

Et cetera.

Have you ever known a needy Christian? I have.

Sometimes Christians fall on financial hard times. I believe thats a fact that cannot be denied.

So, what does the phrase I have not seen . . . his (the righteous) seed begging bread mean?

I have decided that the clue must be in the word righteous. If you define righteous here as doing the right thing the right way doing things Gods way you will not lack. If you obey all the scriptural instructions regarding dealing with life, money and finances you will, of course, be wise and so will not lack any good thing (Ps. 34.10).

What do you think?

\o/

Some people find a solution in dispensationalism, Jim. "That was just for the Jews". Whilst I think there is something in that - we do have a longer-term perspective than the OT saints, for instance - I am inclined to reject this knife-and-scissors approach to scripture and place my emphasis more on the situational context of God's people. (This is why it makes perfect sense to me that Paul would speak positively to the Corinthians about material prosperity and to the Hebrews about contentment in their state of poverty and eviction. Look at their different situations.)

One point to remember, I think, in reading this scripture is that it is given from David's perspective and David's experience. It is not a promise, nor is it offered as an absolute fact of life. Secondly, I think you are sensible to focus on the word "righteous". The context clearly indicates a working righteousness that is both trusting and doing the right thing. Those who are truly righteous and put their trust in God, even though they may go through famines and calamities, are provided for. If they have really done all that righteousness demands, they are not left in the position of having to beg people for food and clothing.

Hope that helps a little.

T7

Dee235 · Oct 31, 2004

I can speak from experience. There are many months when there seems to be way more month than money, but time and again the Lord provides. It is not always with money, it can be that someone will invite me for a meal, or give me a lift.
Maybe there are people that have not, because they do not ask. Just a thought, of course I could be way off course.

Theophilus7 · Oct 31, 2004

Dee235 said:
I can speak from experience. There are many months when there seems to be way more month than money, but time and again the Lord provides. It is not always with money, it can be that someone will invite me for a meal, or give me a lift.
Maybe there are people that have not, because they do not ask. Just a thought, of course I could be way off course.

I think that is a valid contribution. I do not believe the righteous are guaranteed prosperity, but I do believe what David is saying here is that those who trust the Lord and do the right things will not find themselves having to beg. Somehow, God will provide - He will be there God, and they need turn to no other.

altya · Oct 31, 2004

I have decided that the clue must be in the word righteous. If you define righteous here as doing the right thing the right way doing things Gods way you will not lack. If you obey all the scriptural instructions regarding dealing with life, money and finances you will, of course, be wise and so will not lack any good thing (Ps. 34.10).

I believe you are right Everywhere I go I see Christians is looking at the promise and see the requirement to get the promise.

Asaph · Oct 31, 2004

Of course good little boys get nothing but good things and bad little boys get nothing but bad things.

I'm sure glad I got myself righteous enough for God to save me. So of course, being righteous is all on me, and is all my choice now that I'm saved.

If I only would have been smart like this before I was saved maybe Christ would not have had to die for me. I keep myself righteous by my own power now of course.

Trish1947 · Oct 31, 2004

I'm beginning to see a trend here, what happened to the free gift of His righousness, and why is every one so willing to do this on their own? I don't care how hard you try to be rightous, you cant beat Christs rightousness, if you can let me know. Sorry, but I'm still seeing people trying to be good enough to earn something, a blessing here or there, some favor in His eyes.. Gee you are about as perfect in His eyes that you can get.. The day you said yes. and it really bothers me..Before anyone blasts me away for my comment, I apologize.

SpiritPsalmist · Oct 31, 2004

Jim M said:
So, what does the phrase “I have not seen . . . his (the righteous&#8217 seed begging bread” mean?
I have decided that the clue must be in the word “righteous.” If you define righteous here as “doing the right thing the right way” – doing things God’s way – you will not lack. If you obey all the scriptural instructions regarding dealing with life, money and finances you will, of course, be wise and so will not “lack any good thing” (Ps. 34.10).

What do you think?

\o/

I have pretty much concluded the same thing Jim. I think that a great deal of the time we experience "unbiblical life" just because we panic and choose method's that God's word say's are not necessary for our needs to be met. . .me included.

We live unrighteously by spending unwisely, panicking, worring, fretting, leaning on our own and other's method's of survivel. Our lifestyle's more often mimic the unredeemed over the redeemed. We often are found in the same sordid circumstances as the unsaved. Then we cry "foul" when we don't get what we think we're supposed to.

It's true that we all will experience difficult time's. I don't think that life is a bowl of cherries. Yet, I also don't believe that one is to spend their whole life overcoming the same obstacle's over and over and over again.

I know that in my family we have had financial struggle's from one generation to the next. I know that I have struggled with financial issue's for at least 30 year's now. Yet, as I have leaned more and more on Him I have seen Him come through in miraculous and amazing ways.

It's through the hard time's that I have learned to throw myself at His feet and ask Him to show me where I am missing it. Through constantly asking Him to show me the area's I need to change in (emotionally and spiritually) that I am maturing in this area and will someday see myself free from this hold that the lack of money has had on my family. I'm beginning to see opening's not only where I will be set totally free but also where I will be used in financially helping someone else. I am soooooooo looking forward to that.

I think your last paragraph is stated exceptionally well.

SpiritPsalmist · Oct 31, 2004

Theophilus7 said:
I think that is a valid contribution. I do not believe the righteous are guaranteed prosperity, but I do believe what David is saying here is that those who trust the Lord and do the right things will not find themselves having to beg. Somehow, God will provide - He will be there God, and they need turn to no other.

Rightly said Theophilus.

SpiritPsalmist · Oct 31, 2004

Asaph said:
Of course good little boys get nothing but good things and bad little boys get nothing but bad things.

I don't see this as the idea at all Asaph. Scripture say's, "all good things come from God". Whether the good recieved is to the good little boys or the bad little boy's it is still from God.

I'm not sure that prosperity is necessarily "filthy rich". I think it's having all I need to meet my need. If I have "need" of something I find all I need to meet that need in God. I depend on Him to show me the means of my receiving what I need. Then there are sometime's where He even give's us things we don't need. . .just because He love's us.

Scripture says we will experience difficult time's but I don't believe we are condemned to difficult time's our intire life. . .unless of course we are not paying attention to what He's trying to teach us.

NacDan · Oct 31, 2004

The Message translates that scripture to read this way,

"I once was young, now I'm a graybeard-not once have I seen an abandoned believer, or his kids out roaming the streets."

I think the key word in this translation is abandoned. Never saw an abandoned believer, since God doesn't abandon us (I will admit that often we abandon God). another clue is in the verse immediately prior.

(Message) Stalwart walks in step with God; his path blazed by God, he's happy. If he stumbles, he's not down for long; God has a grip on his hand. (23-24)

(RSV) though he fall, he shall not be cast headlong, for the Lord is the stay of his hand. (24)

Danny

Ps: Heard an EXCELLENT lesson at church (done different) this morning. This very subject was brought up. I learned a lot.

JimB · Nov 1, 2004

Trish1947 said:
I'm beginning to see a trend here, what happened to the free gift of His righousness, and why is every one so willing to do this on their own? I don't care how hard you try to be rightous, you cant beat Christs rightousness, if you can let me know. Sorry, but I'm still seeing people trying to be good enough to earn something, a blessing here or there, some favor in His eyes.. Gee you are about as perfect in His eyes that you can get.. The day you said yes. and it really bothers me..Before anyone blasts me away for my comment, I apologize.

Trish (and Asaph),

You are right (and righteous), of course. There is nothing we can do to earn anything from God. But that was not my point. I am not talking about moral righteousness, but simply following Gods wise instructions doing the right (righteous) thing about, in this case, your finances. The righteous, those that do their finances righteously, following scriptural precepts and instructions, will not have to beg bread. They will obey all the safeguards against hunger and poverty that God has set in His Word how not to co-sign notes, and how to loan, borrow, save, invest, work, etc.

Obeying Gods word on these matters is the best way to stay out of welfare lines.

Hope that clears it up a little.

\o/

enoch son · Nov 1, 2004

Jim we agree agian!!!!!!!!!!!! Isn't it neat just to take Him at His word? Self-will for a blessing is as the sin of witchcraft!

Trish1947 · Nov 1, 2004

Jim M.....how not to co-sign notes, and how to loan, borrow, save, invest, work, etc.

Obeying Gods word on these matters is the best way to stay out of welfare lines.

Hope that clears it up a little.

Okee dokee, I'm getting it now.. Doing His words and instructions..that makes since. You cant be unwise with money and constantly crying to him for help when he gave it to you already, and you chose to unwisly blow it... yep, this is so true. Also cant be in charge of someone else's money or given a place of responsiblity (say a boss, or job), and treat it as nothing but a paycheck and expect it wind up in a blessing. IF you cant be responsible for something that belongs to someone else, how can God give you what belongs to you ?

Asaph · Nov 1, 2004

Could it be that true faith lies in not asking nor even thinking about it?

Luke 12:22-27
22 Then He said to His disciples, "Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; nor about the body, what you will put on. 23 Life is more than food, and the body is more than clothing. 24 Consider the ravens, for they neither sow nor reap, which have neither storehouse nor barn; and God feeds them. Of how much more value are you than the birds? 25 And which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature? 26 If you then are not able to do the least, why are you anxious for the rest?
NKJV

As Sean has said before, aren't Ravens unclean birds? Why would He use a Raven for His analogy instead of the dove?

Just something to consider.

Asaph

Trish1947 · Nov 1, 2004

Or this....

Isa 55:2 Wherefore do ye spend money for [that which is] not bread? and your labour for [that which] satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye [that which is] good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.

You have seen the treadmills people put themselves on to get just about everything this earth has to offer. He said to be content with food and raiment..

We just don't like to live in tents, cook over a campfire, and move on when they tell you you have to leave..

Our lives today, are not simple.. We would probably be amazed at just how simple it really is supposed to be.

Asaph · Nov 1, 2004

Trish1947 said:
Or this....

Isa 55:2 Wherefore do ye spend money for [that which is] not bread? and your labour for [that which] satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye [that which is] good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.

You have seen the treadmills people put themselves on the get just about everything this earth has to offer. He said to be content with food and rainment..

We just don't like to live in tents, cook over a campfire, and move on when they tell you you have to leave..

Our lives today, are not simple.. We would probably be amazed at just how simple it really is supposed to be.

It reminds me of the story of George Mueller. A story of true faith so profound. Faith in action. He had not given in to the "storehouse" mentality of gathering worldly things into a heap.

Asaph

His seed begging bread?

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