Hey folks! help me out with this one: 2 Kings 2: 23-25

[GalactusOmega]

An agnostic friend of mine hit me with this one today. I'm finding it a bit hard to respond to (as in, defend). Help please.

2 Kings 2: 23-25 (NIV)

23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys. 25 And he went on to Mount Carmel and from there returned to Samaria.

 

[ivebeenshown]

It's interesting, because forty two is the number of LUE.

I see sort of a number symbolism here. Two bears (two witnesses) maul (devour enemies) forty-two boys (forty-two months.)

 

[Fireinfolding]

I agree ivebeenshown, what is LUE?

All these abreviations are driving me nuts, even IBS

 

[laconicstudent]

An agnostic friend of mine hit me with this one today. I'm finding it a bit hard to respond to (as in, defend). Help please.

2 Kings 2: 23-25 (NIV)

23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys. 25 And he went on to Mount Carmel and from there returned to Samaria.

It seems pretty clear. A bunch of boys from town came out and mocked Prophet. Prophet cursed them. God sent bears to kill boys.

 

[ivebeenshown]

I agree ivebeenshown, what is LUE?

All these abreviations are driving me nuts, even IBS

Howdy Kim, IrritableBowelSyndrome here.

LUE is "Life, the Universe, and Everything" and in the book/movie Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, 42 is apparently the answer to LUE.

It seems pretty clear. A bunch of boys from town came out and mocked Prophet. Prophet cursed them. God sent bears to kill boys.

Agreed. But he is asking how to defend it... likely defend it to those who doubt God's authority and power and righteousness. For such, I would not even bother with the Old Testament, but to preach the Gospel only. The premies need milk, not meat!

 

[GalactusOmega]

It's interesting, because forty two is the number of LUE.

I see sort of a number symbolism here. Two bears (two witnesses) maul (devour enemies) forty-two boys (forty-two months.)

So you're saying we're not to take the Bible literally?

What about those who do not know what the symbolism alludes to? Are they to remain forever ignorant of the true message of God's word? That seems unfair.

 

[ivebeenshown]

So you're saying we're not to take the Bible literally?

What about those who do not know what the symbolism alludes to? Are they to remain forever ignorant of the true message of God's word? That seems unfair.

Oh no, I do take it literally, yet it also carries symbolic meaning in relation to Revelation, IMO. Now, this passage is probably just going to be one of those 'clobber passages' from those who know not the LORD. They need Christ first, the milk of the word, and not the meat. Anyone who wants to debase Christianity must have something against the doctrine of Christ first of all... for us who know our almighty and great God, we know everything he does is righteous already, and such passages from the Tanakh, while being literal passages, provide spiritual insight to books of the New Testament.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Howdy Kim, IrritableBowelSyndrome here.

Thats exactly what come to mind

Your such a sport, Im calling ya Derek, or Big D, hows that?

LUE is "Life, the Universe, and Everything" and in the book/movie Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, 42 is apparently the answer to LUE.

Kool, I never saw it, now Im interested

Did sorta remind me of "cursed children" for while...

Then of...

"no more children"?


Not sure but I can see what your saying though

 

[GalactusOmega]

It seems pretty clear. A bunch of boys from town came out and mocked Prophet. Prophet cursed them. God sent bears to kill boys.

Clear indeed. But doesn't it conflict with the idea of a good God who loves us all?

 

[laconicstudent]

Clear indeed. But doesn't it conflict with the idea of a good God who loves us all?

Not really.

 

[ivebeenshown]

Clear indeed. But doesn't it conflict with the idea of a good God who loves us all?

God has to keep his word of his covenant otherwise he is not a promise keeper, and assuming the children of Bethel were in the bloodline of those under that covenant, they had broken their end of the covenant and deserved death according to the very covenant they were under. Elisha only sought from God justice according to that covenant.

 

[GalactusOmega]

Not really.

No? I have 3 boys. 14, 7 and 5. If they were making fun of someone I'd certainly talk sternly to them, maybe ground them, but I wouldn't feed them to bears.

Maybe I'm just too permissive?

 

[laconicstudent]

No? I have 3 boys. 14, 7 and 5. If they were making fun of someone I'd certainly talk sternly to them, maybe ground them, but I wouldn't feed them to bears.

Maybe I'm just too permissive?

But your children probably don't mock the chosen prophets of almighty God, do they?

 

[GalactusOmega]

God has to keep his word of his covenant otherwise he is not a promise keeper, and assuming the children of Bethel were in the bloodline of those under that covenant, they had broken their end of the covenant and deserved death according to the very covenant they were under. Elisha only sought from God justice according to that covenant.

I see. So the children, who were not privy, nor signatories, to that covenant, should die if they break it. Nice. I hope my Dad didn't agree to anything before I was born that I don't know about. I could be eaten by bears at any time.

 

[laconicstudent]

I could be eaten by bears at any time.

Or you could be hit by a drunk driver going home from work. None of us are exactly entitled to keep on living as it is, anyways....

 

[ivebeenshown]

I see. So the children, who were not privy, nor signatories, to that covenant, should die if they break it. Nice. I hope my Dad didn't agree to anything before I was born that I don't know about. I could be eaten by bears at any time.

Well, it was the people's own fault for agreeing to a covenant without even knowing the terms they would have to uphold. The people put it upon themselves and their children, and the LORD does not break his own covenant.

Exodus 19
3And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;
4Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
5Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
6And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
7And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.
8And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

See... this is before they even knew all of what the law entailed. But a covenant is a covenant. The LORD is righteous for keeping his covenant, for if he breaks it, he is a promise breaker and unrighteous. With the new covenant in Christ, it is up to each and every man to know the covenant and its terms and accept it in faith, and the only sin that is not forgiven in the new covenant as blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

 

[GalactusOmega]

But your children probably don't mock the chosen prophets of almighty God, do they?

How would they know if they did? Are any of us born with the innate ability to determine who is a prophet and who is a fraud?

And before you continue defending this, did Jesus kill anyone for mocking him?

 

[laconicstudent]

How would they know if they did? Are any of us born with the innate ability to determine who is a prophet and who is a fraud?

That doesn't really affect the outcome, does it?

And before you continue defending this, did Jesus kill anyone for mocking him?

No, but God certainly killed 42 children for mocking his prophet.

Lets not forget the part where God killed 100 people for speaking to Elijah with too much familiarity

2 Kings 1

9Then the king sent to him a captain of fifty men with his fifty. He went up to Elijah, who was sitting on the top of a hill, and said to him,(J) "O man of God, the king says, 'Come down.'" 10But Elijah answered the captain of fifty, "If I am a man of God,(K) let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty." Then fire came down from heaven and consumed him and his fifty.
11Again the king sent to him another captain of fifty men with his fifty. And he answered and said to him, "O man of God, this is the king’s order, 'Come down quickly!'" 12But Elijah answered them, "If I am a man of God,(L) let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty." Then the fire of God came down from heaven and consumed him and his fifty.


It was only when the captain of the third fifty begged on his knees that Elijah condescended to obey the king, and God spared them.

 

[Fireinfolding]

But your children probably don't mock the chosen prophets of almighty God, do they?

Heres an example the disciples assumed in Elijah for themselves, here they werent mocking him but not receiving him (not quite the same deal)

Luke 9:53 And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.

Luke 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

Luke 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

Was it their interpetation of the example found there that they might have assumed (in their situation) called for such an action perhaps?

 

[GalactusOmega]

Or you could be hit by a drunk driver going home from work. None of us are exactly entitled to keep on living as it is, anyways....

An accident isn't exactly the same thing as God deciding to make you bear food.

Or are you saying God is like a drunk driver? You know, that kind of makes a bit of sense. He was blotto through the Old Testament and sobered up a bit in the new testament. Then fell off the wagon again when Paul came along. Makes sense! Thanks.