Graven images of Jesus

[Cockcrow]

why are there falsely so many unbiblical graven images of Jesus in so called church buildings, online, in memes, and wherever else that has Jesus as white with long blonde/gold hair (long hair is a sin for a man 1 Corinthians 11:14) and they always have him doing some kind of unbiblical hand sign, we don't even know what that means, what is going on there?

Exodus 20:4 “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:”

Statues of so called saints and bible figures or anyone else alive or dead is a sin, graven image and idolatry, some even falsely claim they see statues moving or crying, or even bleeding! yet when it comes to images of Jesus so many people still falsely use unbiblical images of a made up Jesus online and this is falsely accepted that Jesus was white blonde long hair. why?

how do we know what Jesus looked like? even if there is a true and accurate depiction out there among the thousands that is still a violation of Gods written commands to use any depiction of Jesus any color, race, ethnicity it is all a sin, graven image and idolatry, and very offensive.

(Now I want to clearly state that I in no way endorse this false new age depiction of Jesus circulating around online, that is very offensive and false as well.)

 

[DragonFox91]

They think it aids them in worship. That is, it's a visual aid that helps put their heart in the right place. It gives them something to aspire to. I agree it's borderline, if not flat-out, idolatry, especially when it's that of saints and Mary. They disagree.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Medieval Sourcebook: John of Damascus: In Defense of Icons, 8th Century


Iconoclasm - OrthodoxWiki


John of Damascus - Wikipedia

 

[RickReads]

They think it aids them in worship. That is, it's a visual aid that helps put their heart in the right place. It gives them something to aspire to. I agree it's borderline, if not flat-out, idolatry, especially when it's that of saints and Mary. They disagree.

As long as it doesn't have an image of a dead Jesus I like a plain cross and I like the fish symbol. In my opinion, both are appropriate public displays of faith.

I don't own either of these items I just find them attractive but if I did own them I wouldn't be ashamed of them.

 

[Cockcrow]

Medieval Sourcebook: John of Damascus: In Defense of Icons, 8th Century


Iconoclasm - OrthodoxWiki


John of Damascus - Wikipedia

with all due respect, the word of God says “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:” Exodus 20:4

Leviticus 26:1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Daniel 3:18 But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.

Psalms 31:6 I have hated them that regard lying vanities: but I trust in the LORD.


We worship in spirit and in truth, not with man made images!

 

[Cockcrow]

I want to see Bible word of God not commandments of men

Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Revelation 22:18-19 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

those images are not Jesus

 

[RickReads]

I want to see Bible word of God not commandments of men

Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Revelation 22:18-19 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

those images are not Jesus

Me thinks you protestesth too much

 

[Blade]

why are there falsely so many unbiblical graven images of Jesus in so called church buildings, online, in memes, and wherever else that has Jesus as white with long blonde/gold hair (long hair is a sin for a man 1 Corinthians 11:14) and they always have him doing some kind of unbiblical hand sign, we don't even know what that means, what is going on there?

Exodus 20:4 “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:”

Statues of so called saints and bible figures or anyone else alive or dead is a sin, graven image and idolatry, some even falsely claim they see statues moving or crying, or even bleeding! yet when it comes to images of Jesus so many people still falsely use unbiblical images of a made up Jesus online and this is falsely accepted that Jesus was white blonde long hair. why?

how do we know what Jesus looked like? even if there is a true and accurate depiction out there among the thousands that is still a violation of Gods written commands to use any depiction of Jesus any color, race, ethnicity it is all a sin, graven image and idolatry, and very offensive.

(Now I want to clearly state that I in no way endorse this false new age depiction of Jesus circulating around online, that is very offensive and false as well.)

You missed so much here but to make it very simple.. not to for the purpose of bowing to it or worshiping it. Not worth going into since you really no offense don't understand what is written. See Israel made images and then bowed down and worshiped them. The picture you see my avatar you know Jesus holding a sheep? So you believe thats the real son of GOD what He looks like? I don't.. yeah I don't talk to any picture of Him I have nor the cross. Hes not there. I can't find from Matt-Rev where they describe what He exactly looks like. But again we need to back up and know its about worshiping it.. bowing down to it calling it a god. Most understand this..

Then adding to the word "Statues of so called saints and bible figures or anyone else alive or dead is a sin, " where is this written? No where does it say thats a sin in the word of God. See its not me saying "thats Jesus Christ the son of GOD". Its others that believe like you do. I have no clue what color skin He really had or the color of His eyes or the color of His hair or how tall He was ..shall I go on? And its not some IMAGE that I now talk to and worship. Well silly since its not Him. Understand?

 

[Pavel Mosko]

with all due respect, the word of God says “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:” Exodus 20:4

Is this why you left your avatar blank? Do you believe it is a sin to take a picture?



You seem to be largely in agreement with Salafi Islam on this topic....

 

[Pavel Mosko]

ith all due respect, the word of God says “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:” Exodus 20:4

With all due respect I don't think you know as much as you think you do.


1) A few chapters later they begin making stuff for the tabernacle like the ark of the Covenant with it's so called Graven images, not to mention Moses raising the Bronze serpent later on.


2) We have various examples of ancient Israelite money that also shows they did not have your understanding. You got lots of example of portraits of rulers, of seraphim serpents with six wings, even a stylized representation of Yahweh as a crowned solar disk.


3) The ancient Israelites left behind graffiti as well in their 40 years in the Wilderness. I'm also starting to read up on other kinds of graffiti found in the diaspora. But there are other examples like the synagogue and church found in Dura Europos, ancient Syria.

Dura-Europos synagogue - Wikipedia

Dura-Europos church - Wikipedia


All of the above is also not unusual when you consider the contents of the Bible and the fact that ancient scenes in the Bible actually reference the iconography of the ancient near east, because the people of the Bible were not American or European Protestants from the Renaissance but ancient people from the near east.

 

[d taylor]

-​

It goes along with all the other false practices, beliefs that have crept into the visible church.

 

[Der Alte]

* * * Exodus 20:4 “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:” * * *

You have quoted Ex 20:4 out-of-context. I assume deliberately for the purpose of furthering you own agenda.

Exodus 20:4-5
(4) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
(5) Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;​

These two vss. are not separable. The making of an image, in and of itself, is not prohibited. The making of an image for the purpose of bowing down and worshipping the image is prohibited.
Israel was commanded to make images of cherubs and place them on the Ark of the Covenant. After the Israelites rebelled while Moses was on the mountain they were commanded to make the image of a serpent place it on a staff and look at it to prevent them from being killed by snakes.

 

[Cockcrow]

you can call it "Icons" or "we don't worship it" but it is still graven image and idolatry forbidden by the word of God Bible, why would anyone believe anything outside of the Bible which is the word of God, that is idolatry!

 

[dani'el]

Just something to think about: the Hebrews never thought a piece of wood or stone or metal was a god. They did however believe in many gods (small "g"). They were to serve and worship only the One True God.

Exodus 32:1 When the people saw that Moses delayed to come down from the mountain, the people gathered themselves together to Aaron and said to him, “Up, make us gods who shall go before us. As for this Moses, the man who brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we do not know what has become of him.”

H430 אֱלֹהִים 'ĕlôhı̂ym- Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative.

They only made one statue, a golden calf. Note in the verse above they were worried because Moses had not come down the mountain. They had lost their only conduit to their God, so they reverted to what they had learned from the Egyptians. They made an idol.

The purpose of an idol was to draw the deity closer to be worshipped and called upon for help and guidance. It was not the idol being worshiped, but the deity it represented. However the God of Israel tells us this is not how He is to be worshiped. I always hear (and it was stated here) that the purpose for statues, icons, etc is to draw the worshiper closer to God in some way. My question is then simple: your idol draws you to your God, their calf was supposed to draw their God to them- how are these different?

I submit it is the same mental exercise, and the same spiritual result. Call it us to deity or deity to us, in worship there is always a two way communication between worshiper and deity. It is a simultaneous two-way communicative connection. So either way you say it when you stand, kneel, prostrate or bow before an idol, even to worship our God, you are committing the sin of the Golden Calf.

 

[HTacianas]

why are there falsely so many unbiblical graven images of Jesus in so called church buildings, online, in memes, and wherever else that has Jesus as white with long blonde/gold hair (long hair is a sin for a man 1 Corinthians 11:14) and they always have him doing some kind of unbiblical hand sign, we don't even know what that means, what is going on there?

Exodus 20:4 “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:”

Statues of so called saints and bible figures or anyone else alive or dead is a sin, graven image and idolatry, some even falsely claim they see statues moving or crying, or even bleeding! yet when it comes to images of Jesus so many people still falsely use unbiblical images of a made up Jesus online and this is falsely accepted that Jesus was white blonde long hair. why?

how do we know what Jesus looked like? even if there is a true and accurate depiction out there among the thousands that is still a violation of Gods written commands to use any depiction of Jesus any color, race, ethnicity it is all a sin, graven image and idolatry, and very offensive.

(Now I want to clearly state that I in no way endorse this false new age depiction of Jesus circulating around online, that is very offensive and false as well.)

See the canons of the second Council of Nicea. The matter was resolved then.

 

[dani'el]

You have quoted Ex 20:4 out-of-context. I assume deliberately for the purpose of furthering you own agenda.

Exodus 20:4-5
(4) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
(5) Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;​

These two vss. are not separable. The making of an image, in and of itself, is not prohibited. The making of an image for the purpose of bowing down and worshipping the image is prohibited.
Israel was commanded to make images of cherubs and place them on the Ark of the Covenant. After the Israelites rebelled while Moses was on the mountain they were commanded to make the image of a serpent place it on a staff and look at it to prevent them from being killed by snakes.

I think you need to reread the passage. It says you should neither make them nor bow down to them. It is not a "one without the other is ok" statement.

The Ark and the images in the Temple were recreations of the heavenly throne. The serpent on a staff was later destroyed by Hezekiah so the Hebrews could not worship before it (2Kings 18:4). God is God. He can make exceptions for His own purposes. We cannot. Well, make that "should not," since both the Hebrews and we have violated His commands. The Jews by the time of Jesus not only had made engravings on some coins, they had different temple sites at which to worship. Not just synagogues, but small recreations of the Temple in Jerusalem, complete with altars on which to sacrifice. We too have graven images on our coins, and we worship before statues of saints as well as Jesus, usually at His lowest point of existence here on earth. Some Hebrews sacrificed their children to Molech. We'd never be so cruel- unless we did not want the child. Then some have it torn apart alive in the womb. But that's different, right? We probably agree that is wrong, but you see my point.

Some, not all Hebrews did these things. Some of us, not all do the things we are talking about. Just like in some cases an abortion would be good- say the child dies in the womb and the mother is in peril. There are exceptions (which I won't get too bogged down in), just as with the Almighty making exceptions for His purposes. Would not the serpent that saved all who looked upon it be prophetic; a picture of Him who became sin for us to erase the sin purposed by an earlier serpent? Some things I just don't question God about. I simply look for possible explanations. One of these is why not a statue- because He said no. Is it possible He wants us to know and understand His character; to reflect on this instead of some image which you've all said is wrong to begin with (blond, blue eyes, long hair perfectly coifed ... none of us believes that, so why use it). And would any statue adequately represent a likeness of Almighty God? No, but His word does give us a pretty good indication of who He is and what He wants.

 

[dani'el]

There is another thing about statues. Kings would erect them in his image in towns to claim ownership of the surrounding territory, and an idol represented a god in much the same way. Our God is different. The world should know us because we try to emulate Him; to do as He said. They see Him in us, and know under whose protection we are. We are to be His "statues," not He ours.

 

[Der Alte]

you can call it "Icons" or "we don't worship it" but it is still graven image and idolatry forbidden by the word of God Bible, why would anyone believe anything outside of the Bible which is the word of God, that is idolatry!

Wrong!
You continue to quote Ex 20:4 out-of-context. Apparently for the purpose of furthering you own agenda.

Exodus 20:4-5
(4) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
(5) Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;​

These two vss. are inseparable. The making of an image, in and of itself, is NOT prohibited. The making of an image for the purpose of bowing down and worshipping the image is prohibited.
Israel was commanded to make images of cherubs and place them on the Ark of the Covenant. After the Israelites rebelled while Moses was on the mountain they were commanded to make the image of a serpent place it on a staff and look at it to prevent them from being killed by snakes.

 

[Der Alte]

I think you need to reread the passage. It says you should neither make them nor bow down to them. It is not a "one without the other is ok" statement.
The Ark and the images in the Temple were recreations of the heavenly throne. The serpent on a staff was later destroyed by Hezekiah so the Hebrews could not worship before it (2Kings 18:4). God is God. He can make exceptions for His own purposes. We cannot. Well, make that "should not," since both the Hebrews and we have violated His commands. The Jews by the time of Jesus not only had made engravings on some coins, they had different temple sites at which to worship. Not just synagogues, but small recreations of the Temple in Jerusalem, complete with altars on which to sacrifice. We too have graven images on our coins, and we worship before statues of saints as well as Jesus, usually at His lowest point of existence here on earth. Some Hebrews sacrificed their children to Molech. We'd never be so cruel- unless we did not want the child. Then some have it torn apart alive in the womb. But that's different, right? We probably agree that is wrong, but you see my point. * * *

Rather it is you who needs to reread Ex 20:4-5. There is no "nor" before "thou shalt not bow down to them"

Exodus 20:4-5
(4) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
(5)[*here*] Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;​

 

[SkyWriting]

you can call it "Icons" or "we don't worship it" but it is still graven image and idolatry forbidden by the word of God Bible, why would anyone believe anything outside of the Bible which is the word of God, that is idolatry!

Like your post for example? We should not believe what you say?