God and Knowing Future Events

[FutureAndAHope]

When trying to understand God we always need to reply upon scripture. There are many theories about God, and foreknowledge. Some say, and I have wondered it myself from time to time, is God outside of time, and able to sort of travel through it. Hence knowing what will happen.

But I would like to suggest that even if God could travel through time, there was a period of it where God was bound by it. To prove this, I will show a few scriptures. The first is in Genesis where God was regretful for creating man.

Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the LORD said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.” (NKJV, Genesis 6:5-7)​

If God foreknew, in the sense that He was able to see through history from the beginning and know the actions of man. Then this verse suggests that He would never have created man. This shows there is a span of time where God does not know how man will act.

We also see the regret of God in the story of Saul.

And Samuel said to Saul, “You have done foolishly. You have not kept the commandment of the LORD your God, which He commanded you. For now the LORD would have established your kingdom over Israel forever. (NKJV, 1 Samuel 13:13) ... And Samuel went no more to see Saul until the day of his death. Nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul, and the LORD regretted that He had made Saul king over Israel. (NKJV, 1 Samuel 15:35)​

Note how God said to Saul I would have established your kingdom over Israel forever, that was God’s plan, but Saul continually sinned. God regretted making Saul king. God’s regret shows He did not have perfect knowledge of the future at the point He made Saul king.

I would like to suggest that God knows the future not because He can foresee it but rather authors our stories and uses them to control the future. As David said, God had a book written with positive plans for David before he was born.

Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book all my days were recorded, even those which were purposed before they had come into being. How dear are your thoughts to me, O God! how great is the number of them! If I made up their number, it would be more than the grains of sand; when I am awake, I am still with you. (NKJV, Psalms 139:16-18)​

We see that when David sinned, God changed His story.

Thus says the LORD: ‘Behold, I will raise up adversity against you from your own house; and I will take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in the sight of this sun. For you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel, before the sun.’ (2 Samuel 12:7-12)​

Now let’s look at temptation, and how God is in no way desiring man’s sins, nor planning them. For we know that God does not tempt any man to sin.

Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. (NKJV, James 1:13)​

So God is not causing or responsible for the evil actions of man. This means God did not plan out the evil deeds of man. But I do believe He tries to turn around many bad situations caused by the will of man for good, as the Bible says of the Christian:

And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. (NKJV, Romans 8:28)​

That for every evil purpose man proposes, or carries out, God is working in the background moving people toward a good purpose

So, my conclusion is, that even if God can traverse time, there was a point that He did not know the future. Yet He controls the future through Authored, even edited, stories.

=== EDIT ===

There was a bit of confusion around how God could plan out our days, and yet regret making Saul King. So I thought I would explain. God grants man free will, to choose what he or she is going to do. But God places man in situations where the choice has to be made. As an example.

God authors a story where I am destined to meet a man who He wants me to lead to toward Jesus. If I have courage, the person will come out to church and hear the gospel. If I don’t have courage the person won’t. I have to make a choice. But God’s goal is for the person to hear the gospel at a church. If I fail, through my choice, God’s secondary plan is to use someone else to ask them to church. Finally, if everybody else fails God will send a dream to the person telling them to go to a church. God has many micro plans, but He has planned out all of these potential choices.

Like I said God does not plan out our sins, i.e. He did not make Saul sin, that makes no sense, why would He plan for Saul to sin, and then feel sorry about His plan? In the same way God is not planning our sins, He just knows that if two things happen together a sin may occur. And He plans good out of these bad situations.

Rom_8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.

 

[AlexB23]

When trying to understand God we always need to reply upon scripture. There are many theories about God, and foreknowledge. Some say, and I have wondered it myself from time to time, is God outside of time, and able to sort of travel through it. Hence knowing what will happen.

But I would like to suggest that even if God could travel through time, there was a period of it where God was bound by it. To prove this, I will show a few scriptures. The first is in Genesis where God was regretful for creating man.

Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the LORD said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.” (NKJV, Genesis 6:5-7)​

If God foreknew, in the sense that He was able to see through history from the beginning and know the actions of man. Then this verse suggests that He would never have created man. This shows there is a span of time where God does not know how man will act.

We also see the regret of God in the story of Saul.

And Samuel said to Saul, “You have done foolishly. You have not kept the commandment of the LORD your God, which He commanded you. For now the LORD would have established your kingdom over Israel forever. (NKJV, 1 Samuel 13:13) ... And Samuel went no more to see Saul until the day of his death. Nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul, and the LORD regretted that He had made Saul king over Israel. (NKJV, 1 Samuel 15:35)​

Note how God said to Saul I would have established your kingdom over Israel forever, that was God’s plan, but Saul continually sinned. God regretted making Saul king. God’s regret shows He did not have perfect knowledge of the future at the point He made Saul king.

I would like to suggest that God knows the future not because He can foresee it but rather authors our stories and uses them to control the future. As David said, God had a book written with positive plans for David before he was born.

Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book all my days were recorded, even those which were purposed before they had come into being. How dear are your thoughts to me, O God! how great is the number of them! If I made up their number, it would be more than the grains of sand; when I am awake, I am still with you. (NKJV, Psalms 139:16-18)​

We see that when David sinned, God changed His story.

Thus says the LORD: ‘Behold, I will raise up adversity against you from your own house; and I will take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in the sight of this sun. For you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel, before the sun.’ (2 Samuel 12:7-12)​

Now let’s look at temptation, and how God is in no way desiring man’s sins, nor planning them. For we know that God does not tempt any man to sin.

Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. (NKJV, James 1:13)​

So God is not causing or responsible for the evil actions of man. This means God did not plan out the evil deeds of man. But I do believe He tries to turn around many bad situations caused by the will of man for good, as the Bible says of the Christian:

And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. (NKJV, Romans 8:28)​

That for every evil purpose man proposes, or carries out, God is working in the background moving people toward a good purpose

So, my conclusion is, that even if God can traverse time, there was a point that He did not know the future. Yet He controls the future through Authored, even edited, stories.

God knows the future, as he is omnipresent. The verse below predicts ocean vents, thousands of years before humans discovered them. Saying that God does not know the future is just short of blasphemy.

Job 38:16 (NIV): "Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea or walked in the recesses of the deep?"

Job 38:16 is where God asks if Job has journeyed to the springs of the sea or walked in the recesses of the deep – implying a sense of curiosity and exploration about the mysteries beneath the ocean's surface, and how deep God’s knowledge is. The discovery of hydrothermal vents in the 1970s by the Scripps Institute of Oceanography is an example of how humans have sought to uncover these underwater phenomena, over 2200 years after this verse was written. In other words, this verse shows how God knew His creation thousands of years before humans did.

Plus, the Bible predicted Jesus.

Isaiah 7:14 (NIV): "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel."

The Birth of Jesus (Isaiah 7:14, written ~740 BC): This verse is fulfilled in the birth of Jesus as the virgin Mary conceives and gives birth to Him in around 4 BC (Matthew 1:22-23). The name Immanuel means "God with us," emphasizing Jesus' divine nature as the Son of God.

Bible predicts scientific discoveries:

Scientific Foreknowledge in the Bible

Hello folks. While the Bible is not a scientific textbook, there are some verses which predate modern scientific discoveries by over 2200 years. Pretty neat, isn't it? Date July 17, 2024 | Scientific Foreknowledge in the Bible + God's Omniscience Verse Isaiah 55:8-9 (NIV): "‘For my...

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Jesus Predicted in OT:

Son of Man - Jesus Predicted by the Old Testament

Hello folks. Think of this for a second. Imagine if someone from the middle ages in 1269 AD predicted that man will land on the moon. The 700 year duration between the middle ages and the Apollo 11 moon landing is the length of time between prophet Isaiah in ~700 BC predicting Jesus being...

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[FutureAndAHope]

God knows the future, as he is omnipresent. The verse below predicts ocean vents, thousands of years before humans discovered them. Saying that God does not know the future is just short of blasphemy.

God can certainly know what He is going to do in the future, like the cross, and how creation will function. It does not mean that He has to know every choice that people will make. The verses I quoted in the OP show that God does not know "beforehand" every choice people will make (although He can again control what available options we have).

He chose Saul but Saul turned out bad.
He created man but man did not turn out how He had wanted.

 

[AlexB23]

God can certainly know what He is going to do in the future, like the cross, and how creation will function. It does not mean that He has to know every choice that people will make. The verses I quoted in the OP show that God does not know "beforehand" every choice people will make (although He can again control what available options we have).

He chose Saul but Saul turned out bad.
He created man but man did not turn out how He had wanted.

I understand, but your post might be need to be moved to the Controversial Theology subforum as your OP diminishes the knowledge of God, but remember, this could all be part of God's end game, cos He does not want us to be robots. God knew that humans would sin.

 

[Bobber]

I would like to suggest that God knows the future not because He can foresee it but rather authors our stories and uses them to control the future. As David said, God had a book written with positive plans for David before he was born.

Big problem with your suggestion. If he authors our stories then as you pointed out how in the world and why in the world would he be grieved that he had made man or have said about Saul (as you pointed out) that God regretted making Saul King? If he regretted it why author Saul as King?

​

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Big problem with your suggestion. If he authors our stories then as you pointed out how in the world and why in the world would he be grieved that he had made man or have said about Saul (as you pointed out) that God regretted making Saul King? If he regretted it why author Saul as King?

I don't see God's stories a linear in nature, they flex according to our actions. God did not author Saul's sin. He just puts constrains on our actions. So that:

1Co 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.

It is like God has a set of plans for each of us, good plans if we do good, and a possible punitive plan if we do evil.

 

[Bobber]

I don't see God's stories a linear in nature, they flex according to our actions. God did not author Saul's sin. He just puts constrains on our actions. So that:

1Co 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.

It is like God has a set of plans for each of us, good plans if we do good, and a possible punitive plan if we do evil.

Wouldn't that be contradictory of what you said prior though? You said,

I would like to suggest that God knows the future not because He can foresee it but rather authors our stories and uses them to control the future.

If he authors and controls the future how can it be said there's an if we do good or an if we do wrong about anything? He wouldn't be controlling any action or to say it another way man would not have a controller really at all.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Wouldn't that be contradictory of what you said prior though? You said,

I would like to suggest that God knows the future not because He can foresee it but rather authors our stories and uses them to control the future.

If he authors and controls the future how can it be said there's an if we do good or an if we do wrong about anything? He wouldn't be controlling any action or to say it another way man would not have a controller really at all.

God's planning controls what man is allowed to do, the constraints put on people, but He does not control what they do. We still make moral choices based upon what we see before us. God gave Adam and Eve freedom in the garden, but He applied one constraint, one moral choice the tree. They still acted with a moral choice, but God's plan was to test how faithful they would be.

The degree to which God plans, or gives freedom is unknown, but to prevent utter chaos from random moral choosing God appears to give us pre-written stories.