Gloriavale

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Gloriavale is an exclusive religious commune on the West Coast of the South Island of New Zealand. Its founder, Hopeful Christian, subscribed to a Modalist theology, and when as Neville Cooper, a Pentecostal pastor in Palmerston North, he subscribed to the "Jesus Only" theology. What this means is that there is only one real Person, Jesus Christ, with the Father and the Holy Spirit being manifestations. In fact Modalism teaches that God manifests as Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit at different times.

Here are the problems with Modalism:

1. For the debt of sin to be paid and for someone to take upon Himself the eternal wrath of God for sinners, it needed a real person. A manifestation is not sufficient. Therefore, the crucifixion of Christ is not effective for a Modalist.
2. Also, there needs to be a mediator between God and man, and the Bible says that the mediator is the risen and glorified Jesus. But the mediation must involve two parties, and if Jesus is the manifestation, then there is no Father to mediate with.
3. The Bible says that it was God who raised Jesus from the dead. If Jesus is the only Person and He was in the grave, who raised Him from the dead?
4. We also need an advocate in heaven when we sin, but if there is just one person, and he is the advocate, who is he advocating to if there is no heavenly Judge?
5. The Bible says that the risen Jesus went into the heavenly holy of holies and offered up his own blood to the Father as the one-time sacrifice for sin. But if there is no Father? Who did Jesus offer His blood to? For the modalist, therefore could not have been that sacrifice, because it required two persons for it to be possible.

These five problems would make it impossible for a Modalist to be a true Christian and therefore be saved.

The tragedy of Gloriavale is that the guiding theology is Modalism or "Jesus Only", and therefore are trusting in another gospel and another Jesus, who is not the Jesus of the Bible. This means that members of Gloriavale will perish in their sins and don't realise it.

 

[Mark Quayle]

These five problems would make it impossible for a Modalist to be a true Christian and therefore be saved.

The tragedy of Gloriavale is that the guiding theology is Modalism or "Jesus Only", and therefore are trusting in another gospel and another Jesus, who is not the Jesus of the Bible. This means that members of Gloriavale will perish in their sins and don't realise it.

Far be it from me to defend Modalism, but the Gospel in its simplest form doesn't get into the doctrines of Christology or the Trinity. In fact, if you hold Modalists to your theology concerning these, else they be lost, what is to keep God from holding you to the real truth and full understanding of these things? None of us is up to that task.

Consider how a human, minus the characteristics we consider intelligence and awareness, (let's say a clinical idiot, possessing none of the 5 senses, or at least unable to process them meaningfully, not even able to form concepts as we know them), may yet be able to grasp hold of the One he sees as separate from himself, yet altogether to be desired; his Gospel is mere recognition, or perhaps exuberance, at knowing that One has made a way for them to be together. —Is our intelligence and understanding really so much better than his that we can say we have it right? Do we even know what 'God' and 'sin' and 'death' mean? Or is a 'working knowledge' enough?

The intellect and knowledge are involved, and false belief is definitely harmful —I'm not saying false belief does not matter— but none of us understands fully, nor well enough to accomplish 'what it takes' to believe. This is God's work.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Some of my friends have dealt with the American side of oneness Pentecostalism. Found a pretty good article on it. I was actually curious if this doctrinal heresy stuff is linked to other things like abuse etc. because I thought there was some cultishness that also goes hand in hand with this stuff.

Oneness Pentecostalism: An Analysis - The Scriptorium Daily

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Far be it from me to defend Modalism, but the Gospel in its simplest form doesn't get into the doctrines of Christology or the Trinity. In fact, if you hold Modalists to your theology concerning these, else they be lost, what is to keep God from holding you to the real truth and full understanding of these things? None of us is up to that task.

Consider how a human, minus the characteristics we consider intelligence and awareness, (let's say a clinical idiot, possessing none of the 5 senses, or at least unable to process them meaningfully, not even able to form concepts as we know them), may yet be able to grasp hold of the One he sees as separate from himself, yet altogether to be desired; his Gospel is mere recognition, or perhaps exuberance, at knowing that One has made a way for them to be together. —Is our intelligence and understanding really so much better than his that we can say we have it right? Do we even know what 'God' and 'sin' and 'death' mean? Or is a 'working knowledge' enough?

The intellect and knowledge are involved, and false belief is definitely harmful —I'm not saying false belief does not matter— but none of us understands fully, nor well enough to accomplish 'what it takes' to believe. This is God's work.

The fact remains is that the "Jesus" of Modalism is not the Jesus of the Gospels. Modalism denies the crucifixion, mediaship and advocacy of Christ, which are foundations of the true Gospel. Saying that Jesus is merely a manifestation of God is subscribing to Gnosticism, a heresy which the Apostle John opposed in his Gospel and letters.

 

[Mark Quayle]

The fact remains is that the "Jesus" of Modalism is not the Jesus of the Gospels. Modalism denies the crucifixion, mediaship and advocacy of Christ, which are foundations of the true Gospel. Saying that Jesus is merely a manifestation of God is subscribing to Gnosticism, a heresy which the Apostle John opposed in his Gospel and letters.

Of course.