Garden of Eden

SuperCow said:

post-diluvian topography

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But if, as scholars say, the narrative was written during the return of the Babylonian exile the rivers ought to be there, though perhaps with different names.

Akita Suggagaki said:

But if, as scholars say, the narrative was written during the return of the Babylonian exile the rivers ought to be there, though perhaps with different names.

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As I said "and assuming one actually believes the biblical record". Somebody who believes that the Torah was not written until the Babylonian exile clearly does not believe the biblical record, and therefore probably already believes the Eden story to be a myth.

SuperCow said:

As I said "and assuming one actually believes the biblical record". Somebody who believes that the Torah was not written until the Babylonian exile clearly does not believe the biblical record, and therefore probably already believes the Eden story to be a myth.

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Even myth can have some historical and geographic correlations.

Tellyontellyon said:

Was the garden of Eden in Africa?

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There were "Edens" in Africa. We call them a biodiverse ecosystem in our Biology book. Just like Science has their "Adam" & "Eve" that goes back a lot further then the Adam and Eve in the Bible. The Bible is literal and symbolic. Only God can be both at the same time.

Tellyontellyon said:

Was the garden of Eden in Africa?

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There was an "Eden" in Africa but not the one we read about in our Bible. In the Biology book they call this a biodiverse ecosystem. Even just a tree can be an eco system onto itself with all the life we find in that tree.

I think the likeliest theory is that the Garden of Eden was just south of Mesopotamia, in the northern Persian Gulf, near the estuary of the two great rivers.

John G. said:

I think the likeliest theory is that the Garden of Eden was just south of Mesopotamia, in the northern Persian Gulf, near the estuary of the two great rivers.

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Too bad Moses did not have a GPS back then.

SuperCow said:

Genesis 2:11 : Pishon - flows through the land of Havilah.
Genesis 2:13 : Gihon - flows through the land of Cush.
Genesis 2:14 : Tigris - flows along th east side of Asshur.
Genesis 2:14 : Euphrates - The author assumes everyone recognizes that river.

Do you notice anything odd here? First thing you see is that all of the rivers in pre-flood Eden are described in terms of post-flood lands named after people that never existed before the flood.

Havilah is a region named after either a son of Cush (Genesis 10:7) or Joktan (Genesis 10:29).
Cush is the first son of Ham, mistakenly translated in the KJV to land of Ethiopia.
Asshur is a son of Shem.

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I jut wanted to mention that this is due to when Genesis was written.
Genesis is an account of history, written in the days of Moses, which is after Cush. Assher, existed.
So, the writer uses the names in existence, to point out the location of these rivers.
Just as a great grandfather would tell his grand children of the current land, and its history.

I would agree the location of the Garden of Eden was in the area of Turkey.

CoreyD said:

I jut wanted to mention that this is due to when Genesis was written.
Genesis is an account of history, written in the days of Moses, which is after Cush. Assher, existed.
So, the writer uses the names in existence, to point out the location of these rivers.
Just as a great grandfather would tell his grand children of the current land, and its history.

I would agree the location of the Garden of Eden was in the area of Turkey.

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I agree. My point was that if the continents all moved to their present positions as a result of the upheaval of the flood, then these descriptions would be meaningless as the context of the names would be unrelatable to the antidiluvian topography of the four rivers.

CoreyD said:

I would agree the location of the Garden of Eden was in the area of Turkey.

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Genesis 2: 10 "Now a river flowed out of Eden to water the garden, and from there it branched into four headwaters: "

Some people believe Eden is under the Persian Gulf. They have used underwater drones and they do find the remains of home under the Persian gulf. Adam and Eve had to live somewhere. People were starting to build permanent homes at that point in time.

I believe that the Garden was in Central America.
The tree of wisdom was the manchineel tree...
Genesis 3:3



Noah built his ark out of Gopherwoods. Since Gophers are only found in Americas, the redwood is likely that tree.


Conclusion, The garden and Noah's ark were all in the Americas.
After the Flood, Noah landed in the Middle East and Civilization restarted from the area.

Panthers said:

I believe that the Garden was in Central America.

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There are many Eden's on land and in the sea. Biology calls them a biodiverse eco system. Science now is up to 18 Eves but there are quite a few of them in Asia. Bryan Sykes book talks about 7 of them.

In Bryan Sykes' book, each of the seven "clan mothers" represents a different mitochondrial haplogroup. Here are the haplogroups associated with each of the seven women:

1. Helena: Haplogroup H 21. Jasmine: Haplogroup J 31. Katrine: Haplogroup K 41. Tara: Haplogroup T 51. Ursula: Haplogroup U (specifically U5) 61. Velda: Haplogroup V 71. Xenia: Haplogroup X1

These haplogroups help trace maternal ancestry and show how modern humans are connected to ancient populations.

Haplogroup J is really intriguing! This group is thought to have originated in the Near East around 45,000 years ago. Today, it’s found in many people across Europe and the Near East. In Sykes' book, the ancestral mother for this haplogroup is named Jasmine. Her descendants spread through the Fertile Crescent into Europe, carrying with them new farming techniques and cultures.

d taylor said:

The earth God created in Genesis 1 was a single piece of circular land.

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Some interpretations suggest that early descriptions might have seen the earth as a single landmass surrounded by water, which aligns loosely with the concept of Pangaea.

Tellyontellyon said:

Was the garden of Eden in Africa? Genetic studies seem to point to humanity starting there. What do you think?

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It's difficult to know where the biblical authors conceived Eden as being located. Four rivers are mentioned, but only two of them are agreed to correspond to known rivers: the Tigris (Hiddekel) and the Euphrates (Phrath). The other two rivers, the Pishon and the Gihon, have been a matter of speculation for a very long time.

Interpretation has varied. Both Jewish and Christian interpretation in antiquity and the middle ages tended toward allegorical interpretations of the rivers. For Christians the four rivers flowing from a single source corresponded to the Four Evangelists, and thus the Gospel, from Christ as the Tree of Life (see also the classical interpretation of the New Jerusalem passages in the Apocalypse). This interpretation goes back to the earliest centuries of the Christian Church, and continued up and through the middle ages.

It's unlikely that the biblical authors conceived of Eden as being in Africa, they wouldn't have been aware of the modern scientific evidence which places human evolutionary origins in East Africa. I'd more likely think that they conceived of Eden as a location, what we moderns might describe as a mytho-historical location, east of where the authors lived. To the east, beyond Mesopotamia, somehow, somewhere. We might even speculate that Eden, at least in part, represents a vague memory of a fertile land of distant origin. Israel's own origin story involves the call of Abraham, where Abraham came from Ur, in the land of the Chaldeans; called westward to the Levant, to the land that would one day become Israel's: ha-Eretz Yisrael. Whether there is a connection between the two is mere speculation, but is possibly interesting nonetheless.

As someone who doesn't subscribe to a strict literal reading of the Eden story I don't know trying to figure out exactly where the biblical authors imagined it to be is of high priority. The contents of the story is itself far more important: the story of the Good Creator God who created human beings to care for creation, who betray God and introduce sin and death into the created world, and the unfolding narrative of God's promises of salvation and redemption, fulfilled in the Person and Work of Jesus Christ is far more important to me.

-CryptoLutheran

Tellyontellyon said:

Was the garden of Eden in Africa? Genetic studies seem to point to humanity starting there. What do you think?

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There was an Eden in African for the Chapter one male and female. The man and woman in chapter two began in the Garden of Eden in the Tigris Euphrates river valley. Science does use the word "Eden" and we are told there are lots of them. They represent a biodiverse eco system in our Biology book.

SuperCow said:

This is not in the Bible.

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But it is not a contradiction. Is there more science in fiction or more fiction in science? Pangea is pretty well established at this point in time.