Excluding from Eucharist/Communion

[cloudyday2]

I grew-up in the Episcopal Church and received communion many times, but now my beliefs are confused and probably closer to agnostic. If I attend an Episcopal Church then the issue of communion will arise. I believe that Jesus (if he exists) would not exclude anybody from communion - even skeptics and militant non-believers. So either Christianity is fantasy and participating in communion is harmless, or Christianity is true in some subtle way and NOT participating in communion is a rejection and/or misunderstanding of Jesus and God.

So I'm curious what Christians think on this issue.

 

[Sketcher]

Communion is only for believers, and believers must only take it worthily. But we should of course, take it.

Jesus will accept all who come to him to become his followers and receive his forgiveness. After that has happened, and they have been baptized, they may take communion and are encouraged to do so.

 

[dzheremi]

"If he exists"? If that's where you're at, hold off on receiving communion anywhere until you sort out what it is that you actually believe.

 

[TuxAme]

What does Paul have to say? He says that we must examine ourselves before we receive the Bread and the Cup (1 Corinthians 11:28). He says that it is possible to eat and drink Christ's Body and Blood unworthily, and whoever does so will have to answer for it. So, there are certainly people who should not receive, and if we say that Saint Paul was teaching correctly, then we must also say that this is Jesus' own teaching on the matter.

 

[disciple Clint]

I grew-up in the Episcopal Church and received communion many times, but now my beliefs are confused and probably closer to agnostic. If I attend an Episcopal Church then the issue of communion will arise. I believe that Jesus (if he exists) would not exclude anybody from communion - even skeptics and militant non-believers. So either Christianity is fantasy and participating in communion is harmless, or Christianity is true in some subtle way and NOT participating in communion is a rejection and/or misunderstanding of Jesus and God.

So I'm curious what Christians think on this issue.

I think you should sit down with the pastor of the church you have attended and talk this over. You do seem confused on one hand you believe but then you question that belief. Talk it out get your questions answered. Then decide one way or the other.

 

[cloudyday2]

Communion is only for believers, and believers must only take it worthily. But we should of course, take it.

Jesus will accept all who come to him to become his followers and receive his forgiveness. After that has happened, and they have been baptized, they may take communion and are encouraged to do so.

Well, in the past I was a typical Episcopalian participating in communion every Sunday. I was baptized as an infant and later in college and more recently in an Orthodox church. But now I am not quite certain what I believe about Christianity. I still hope there might be some grain of truth in Christianity, but I question most of the Nicene Creed.

Should I exclude myself from Jesus in the communion ritual simply because other people don't think my beliefs are satisfactory to approach him? If Jesus is real in some spiritual sense then there is a good chance that he showed me something important about communion and I need to participate in response. On the other hand, there is a good chance that I am mistaken, but in that case participation is harmless.

How can my beliefs be less acceptable when they are changing due to study and experience?

 

[☦Marius☦]

Well, in the past I was a typical Episcopalian participating in communion every Sunday. I was baptized as an infant and later in college and more recently in an Orthodox church. But now I am not quite certain what I believe about Christianity.

Should I exclude myself from Jesus in the communion ritual simply because other people don't think my beliefs are satisfactory to approach him? If Jesus is real in some spiritual sense then there is a good chance that he showed me something important about communion and I need to participate in response. On the other hand, there is a good chance that I am mistaken, but in that case participation is harmless.

You were brought into the Orthodox Church and left? Why? Even just a little bit of exploration into Orthodox life will show plenty of proof of God. Ever seen a myrrh streaming Icon up close? I have and there is nothing on Earth that can describe the experience. Ever seen an incorrupt saint's body or read the lives of modern day wonderworkers?

Go to a monastery if you can and ask to spend some time there. I recommend Hermitage of the Holy Cross if you are on the East Coast. I spent 5 months there and the monks are wonderful.

You should exclude yourself from communion because if you are not confessing your sin and repenting, and have some measure of real belief in Christ, then you can spiritually harm your soul or even suffer physically. It happened in the Bible and I've heard of it happening more recently. While the physical effects might be less frequent, the spiritual ones are much more powerful. If you want an easier way to harden your heart and quicken your path to pride, then commune without fear of God and repentance. You are partaking of the literal blood and body of God, in order to become deified.

 

[friend of]

I believe that Jesus (if he exists) would not exclude anybody from communion - even skeptics and militant non-believers.

1 Corinthians 11:27-29

27Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28Each one must examine himself before he eats ofthe bread and drinks of the cup. 29For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body eats and drinks judgment on himself

 

[Of the Kingdom]

I grew-up in the Episcopal Church and received communion many times, but now my beliefs are confused and probably closer to agnostic. If I attend an Episcopal Church then the issue of communion will arise. I believe that Jesus (if he exists) would not exclude anybody from communion - even skeptics and militant non-believers. So either Christianity is fantasy and participating in communion is harmless, or Christianity is true in some subtle way and NOT participating in communion is a rejection and/or misunderstanding of Jesus and God.

So I'm curious what Christians think on this issue.

Whatever spiritual value there is in receiving communion, it will be of no benefit to you if you are uncertain of your relationship to Jesus. Whether it will be harmful is an open question. If you know the value and meaning of communion, then your conscience might condemn you and there could be some real harm.

Too often, even among committed Christians, there is a feeling of entitlement to communion. This is a horrible issue of pride, and those who come to the communion table honorably are those who know of their inherent unworthiness to receive, and place their confidence in Christ to cover them with His righteousness. The Holy Spirit should convict me if I have an unsettled issue that should prevent me from receiving communion, and I will never take it if I have a doubt about the matter.

Some groups have formal rules about conditions for taking communion, while others leave it up to each person. I attended a communion service with some conservative Mennonites once, and they advised me that I should not partake, because they didn't know me well enough to go through the process of insuring I met the scriptural standards. I did participate in the process, and I think got most of the spiritual benefit without taking the elements. I commented that they could deny me the elements, but could hardly deny me communion with my Lord.

 

[Of the Kingdom]

I should add that Jesus never excludes anyone from relationship with Him. Communion, however, is something that should be well understood before participating. I prefer to consider Paul's words of warning very literally when considering whether I am ready to partake.

(1Cor 11:29-30 [WEB])
For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy way eats and drinks judgment to himself, if he doesn’t discern the Lord’s body.

For this cause many among you are weak and sickly, and not a few sleep.

 

[disciple Clint]

Well, in the past I was a typical Episcopalian participating in communion every Sunday. I was baptized as an infant and later in college and more recently in an Orthodox church. But now I am not quite certain what I believe about Christianity. I still hope there might be some grain of truth in Christianity, but I question most of the Nicene Creed.

Should I exclude myself from Jesus in the communion ritual simply because other people don't think my beliefs are satisfactory to approach him? If Jesus is real in some spiritual sense then there is a good chance that he showed me something important about communion and I need to participate in response. On the other hand, there is a good chance that I am mistaken, but in that case participation is harmless.

How can my beliefs be less acceptable when they are changing due to study and experience?

Since you have questions about the Council of Nicaea why not do a little research and see if you can find the answers to your question?
The Council of Nicaea (Nicea) and the Bible
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: First Council of Nicaea
https://www.equip.org/article/what-really-happened-at-nicea/

 

[PloverWing]

This is an issue being discussed within the Episcopal Church now, and there is some disagreement. Speaking from my own viewpoint -- which is shared by some but not all in my church:

Understand that we believe that Christ is present in the Eucharist, that God's grace comes to us in a special and tangible form as we partake of the consecrated Bread and Wine. So if you think that Communion is stupid, or belief in God is stupid, or if you hate what Christians stand for -- if it's any of that, then don't receive Communion; it would be disrespectful.

But if you're coming with a respect for what it is that we do at Communion, wanting to encounter whatever grace or Presence can be found at the Altar -- even if you don't know whether there's any Presence there, even if you don't know whether God exists at all -- then you are welcome.

 

[Radagast]

but I question most of the Nicene Creed.

The Eucharist is only for Christians. If you cannot say "we offer and present unto thee, O Lord, our selves, our souls and bodies, to be a reasonable, holy, and living sacrifice unto thee," then it is not for you.

The Eucharist is only for those who acknowledge their sin. That is why we say a prayer of confession first.

The Eucharist is only for those who accept the Nicene Creed. That is why we are required to say the Creed first.

 

[cloudyday2]

The Eucharist is only for Christians. If you cannot say "we offer and present unto thee, O Lord, our selves, our souls and bodies, to be a reasonable, holy, and living sacrifice unto thee," then it is not for you.

The Eucharist is only for those who acknowledge their sin. That is why we say a prayer of confession first.

The Eucharist is only for those who accept the Nicene Creed. That is why we are required to say the Creed first.

Of course you are aware that the Nicene Creed came much later than the Eucharist.

What do you think the Eucharist is?
- a public declaration of who is orthodox and who is not orthodox?
- a dispensation of a mystical elixir brewed from the body and blood of Jesus?
- a participatory reenactment of an Isaac-like sacrifice of Jesus for the sins of humanity?
- an invitation to come forward to meet Jesus ritually?

I opt for the last answer. Standing back during communion out of "respect" for a church's rules is effectively putting church traditions created by fallible humans above Jesus which is effectively denying his reality as a door to God or God in human form or the Son of Man from Daniel etc. It makes Jesus a commodity sold by a church in exchange for sweeping all your doubts under the rug.

 

[dlamberth]

What do you think the Eucharist is?
- a public declaration of who is orthodox and who is not orthodox?
- a dispensation of a mystical elixir brewed from the body and blood of Jesus?
- a participatory reenactment of an Isaac-like sacrifice of Jesus for the sins of humanity?
- an invitation to come forward to meet Jesus ritually?

The option I'd chose is an invitation to join "in" Christ within Jesus, the mystery.

 

[Radagast]

What do you think the Eucharist is?
- a public declaration of who is orthodox and who is not orthodox?
- a dispensation of a mystical elixir brewed from the body and blood of Jesus?
- a participatory reenactment of an Isaac-like sacrifice of Jesus for the sins of humanity?
- an invitation to come forward to meet Jesus ritually?

The Eucharist has always been something for people who are already Christians.

I was pointing this out from the actual Anglican liturgy.

I cannot physically stop you from taking the Eucharist, but you might like to read 1 Corinthians 11:27: "Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord."

 

[dlamberth]

The question I have is that in the Catholic Church they are always serving Communion. But not so much in Protestant Churches. Why is that?

 

[Radagast]

The question I have is that in the Catholic Church they are always serving Communion. But not so much in Protestant Churches. Why is that?

Some Protestants have communion every week. Others once a month. Others less often.

Historically, this is tied up with how seriously one takes 1 Corinthians 11:27-30 ("Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgement on himself. That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.").

That's right: taking Communion the wrong way can kill you. If one takes this passage very seriously, then there needs to be a period of spiritual preparation before Communion.

That's not to say that Catholics don't take it seriously too: for them the preparation involves confession and absolution.

 

[cloudyday2]

The Eucharist has always been something for people who are already Christians.

I was pointing this out from the actual Anglican liturgy.

I cannot physically stop you from taking the Eucharist, but you might like to read 1 Corinthians 11:27: "Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord."

As I mentioned I was already a Christian from baptism as an infant. The only change is that now I don't believe most of what is taught as Christianity. What makes a person a Christian?

 

[hedrick]

I think a Christian is one who follows Jesus. But the issue you're facing is can you follow Jesus if you find his message and the Christian community attractive but don't really believe what Jesus taught? Most people in CF would say no. Some Episcopaleans might accept it. Communion is inherently connected with Jesus' death. Do you think Jesus died for you, or at least for a humanity of which you're part, and thus communion would acknowledge you as part of the people for which he died?