Early Church Fathers and Divorce/Remarriage

LizaMarie · Mar 30, 2015

Although I am now a Lutheran, I have found myself attracted to ancient Christianity. There is much I like about Catholicism, but also much I like better about Orthodoxy. As I have studied, I have found sometime The Orthodox have the better argument.
When I/we(my dh and I ) looked into Catholicism, we discovered that in order to become communicant members my husband(and I) would have to go through a very tangled annulment process.
I addressed this in my introductory posts a few months back-although this is my only marriage, dh was married before(once)
I very much like the EO position I've seen here and at Orthodox research institute. However, I would like to know how far back the practice of Economia for second marriages go( I also understand this includes widowhood) and forbidding 4th marriages(not an issue with me if something happens to dh I don't attend to marry again as I'm closing in on 60 in a year)
The EO position seems so much more pastoral and what Jesus would say however I agree that it should be taken on a case by case basis. In my dh's case he tried to preserve the marriage she left and remarried so there is no marriage to salvage. DH was not in any way cut out for lifelong celibacy so he hoped to marry again at some point.
(A Christian marriage).
The reason I ask is some fundamentalist Protestant groups say that you can never marry again as long as the former spouse is still living and any 2nd marriage performed is adultery including Catholic Annulments.
When I did an internet search of divorce/remarriage in the very Early Church all I could come up with were that the ECF's all forbade it either reconcile or remain single but these were all either on Catholic sites or Protestant ones-so maybe an agenda.
Does one here know how far back it was permitted in the EO church?
Did any ECF's allow it?

ArmyMatt · Mar 30, 2015

I don't know about the ECFs, but this came up in seminary that the Church does not allow divorce and remarriage unless a marriage is already spiritually dead and one of those that has been divorced would be better to be married. it's an allowance because of our sin and fallenness.

LizaMarie · Mar 30, 2015

Thanks Army Matt-yes this seems like the better way to me.
Yes we are fallen, sinful people and I agree with this.

ArmyMatt · Mar 30, 2015

indeed we all are, that is why stuff like this in practice must be case by case. we do not affirm the divorce of a healthy marriage, but allow it when one is spiritually dead.

LizaMarie · Mar 30, 2015

Do you happen to know how far back in the church history this has been allowed?
Only reason is that some argue that Churches only started allowing this in the 20th century or so.

buzuxi02 · Mar 30, 2015

Origen in 245 AD spoke of second marriages accepted in the Church of Alexandria while the (divorced)first spouse was still alive.

It was probably always allowed but on a very rare case by case basis and probably depended on the bishop. Its hard to tell as references to "twice married" usually meant the remarriage of a widowed person.

Canon 8 of Nicea most likely refers to second marriages after divorce. Some have argued the catharoi sect objected to communing with those remarried after being widowed. I dont believe that, I have not found any evidence that there were elements in the church (especially of the mid 3rd century and onward) that [still] had objections to any and all remarriages.

ArmyMatt · Mar 30, 2015

the early Church also usually does not comment on stuff unless it needs to. so often the silence on an issue is not because they don't know, but just because it is not a problem worth commenting on. buzuxi makes it pretty clear that the mercy shown is as early as Origen.

buzuxi02 · Mar 30, 2015

LizaMarie said:
Do you happen to know how far back in the church history this has been allowed?
Only reason is that some argue that Churches only started allowing this in the 20th century or so.

Divorce or remarriage??? St Hippolytus in 195ad was irate that the pope of his time was allowing what he called "twice and thrice married" clergy to be ordained. Its unclear whether these were widowed men that remarried or included divorced ones. Most likely ordaining widowed presbyters, (note some were "thrice married") Hippolytus didnt seem to have a problem for the twice/thrice married laity

LizaMarie · Mar 30, 2015

buzuxi02 said:
Divorce or remarriage??? St Hippolytus in 195ad was irate that the pope of his time was allowing what he called "twice and thrice married" clergy to be ordained. Its unclear whether these were widowed men that remarried or included divorced ones. Most likely ordaining widowed presbyters, (note some were "thrice married") Hippolytus didnt seem to have a problem for the twice/thrice married laity

I meant remarriage while one's former spouse is still living.

LizaMarie · Mar 30, 2015

buzuxi02 said:
Origen in 245 AD spoke of second marriages accepted in the Church of Alexandria while the (divorced)first spouse was still alive.

It was probably always allowed but on a very rare case by case basis and probably depended on the bishop. Its hard to tell as references to "twice married" usually meant the remarriage of a widowed person.

Canon 8 of Nicea most likely refers to second marriages after divorce. Some have argued the catharoi sect objected to communing with those remarried after being widowed. I dont believe that, I have not found any evidence that there were elements in the church (especially of the mid 3rd century and onward) that [still] had objections to any and all remarriages.

thank you so much for this that answers a lot of questions!

LizaMarie · Mar 30, 2015

ArmyMatt said:
the early Church also usually does not comment on stuff unless it needs to. so often the silence on an issue is not because they don't know, but just because it is not a problem worth commenting on. buzuxi makes it pretty clear that the mercy shown is as early as Origen.

Yes I'm glad for that!!

buzuxi02 · Mar 31, 2015

Origen on his commentary of Matthew:

23. Some Laws Given by Concession to Human Weakness.

But, even if we have seemed to touch on things too deep for our capacity in the passages, nevertheless, because of the literal expression these things must further be said, that some of the laws were written not as excellent, but as by way of accommodation to the weakness of those to whom the law was given; for something of this kind is indicated in the words, “Moses for your hardness of heart suffered you to put away your wives; but that which is pre-eminent and superior to the law, is indicated in this, “But from the beginning it hath not been so.”

But in the new covenant also there are some legal injunctions of the same order... for example, because of our hardness of heart, it has been written on account of our weakness, “But because of fornications, let each man have his own wife and let each woman have her own husband;... To these sayings it is accordingly subjoined, “But this I say by way of permission, not of commandment.” But this also, “A wife is bound for so long time as her husband liveth, but if her husband be dead, she is free to be married to whom she will, only in the Lord,” was said by Paul in view of our hardness of heart and weakness, to those who do not wish to desire earnestly the greater gifts and become more blessed. But now contrary to what was written, some even of the rulers of the church have permitted a woman to marry, even when her husband was living, doing contrary to what was written, where it is said, “A wife is bound for so long time as her husband liveth,” and “So then if while her husband liveth, she shall be joined to another man she shall be called an adulteress,” not indeed altogether without reason, for it is probable this concession was permitted in comparison with worse things, contrary to what was from the beginning ordained by law, and written. (Bk 14 ch23)

buzuxi02 · Mar 31, 2015

ArmyMatt said:
I don't know about the ECFs, but this came up in seminary that the Church does not allow divorce and remarriage unless a marriage is already spiritually dead and one of those that has been divorced would be better to be married. it's an allowance because of our sin and fallenness.

This is true. Its also more theologically correct to say that the Church does not give divorces it only grants permission to (re)marry. The Church never blesses or presides over 'endings' only blesses and presides over new beginnings.
Whether its the 40th day churching, baptisms, marriage or even your funeral its not meant as an ending but the beginning of a new chapter.

Possibly the earliest christian text dealing with this issue of divorce is the Shepherd of Hermas written at about 140AD. The prohibition against remarriage while the first spouse is still alive is because reconciliation is rendered impossible. If the church determines that the first marriage is spiritually dead its simply declaring that the hoped for reconcilliation will never happen and out of eikonomia grants permission for remarriage :

..."Sir, permit me to ask you a few questions..." I said to him, "Sir, if any one has a wife who trusts in the Lord, and if he detect her in adultery, does the man sin if he continue to live with her?" And he said to me, "As long as he remains ignorant of her sin, the husband commits no transgression in living with her. But if the husband know that his wife has gone astray, and if the woman does not repent, but persists in her fornication, and yet the husband continues to live with her, he also is guilty of her crime, and a sharer in her adultery."

And I said to him, "What then, sir, is the husband to do, if his wife continue in her vicious practices?" And he said, "The husband should put her away, and remain by himself. But if he put his wife away and marry another, he also commits adultery." And I said to him, "What if the woman put away should repent, and wish to return to her husband: shall she not be taken back by her husband?" And he said to me, "Assuredly. If the husband do not take her back, he sins, and brings a great sin upon himself; for he ought to take back the sinner who has repented. But not frequently. For there is but one repentance to the servants of God. In case, therefore, that the divorced wife may repent, the husband ought not to marry another, when his wife has been put away. In this matter man and woman are to be treated exactly in the same way. Moreover, adultery is committed not only by those who pollute their flesh, but by those who imitate the heathen in their actions." Wherefore if any one persists in such deeds, and repents not, withdraw from him, and cease to live with him. Otherwise you are a sharer in his sin. Therefore has the injunction been laid on you, that you should remain by yourselves, both man and woman, for in such persons repentance can take place. But I do not," said he, "give opportunity for the doing of these deeds, but that he who has sinned may sin no more. But with regard to his previous transgressions, there is One who is able to provide a cure; for it is He, indeed, who has power over all." Hermas bk2, 4th commandment)

LizaMarie · Mar 31, 2015

buzuxi02 said:
Origen on his commentary of Matthew:

Wow interesting-thank you for this.

ArmyMatt · Mar 31, 2015

Its also more theologically correct to say that the Church does not give divorces it only grants permission to (re)marry.

yes, and the remarriage is with the salvation of the person getting in mind, knowing the gravity of what was already done. if someone would draw closer to Christ because of a spouse, then that person having one is better than not. even if this is the second marriage.

LizaMarie · Mar 31, 2015

ArmyMatt said:
yes, and the remarriage is with the salvation of the person getting in mind, knowing the gravity of what was already done. if someone would draw closer to Christ because of a spouse, then that person having one is better than not. even if this is the second marriage.

Well not to brag but my dh came back to Christ through me- he says.
His first marriage was supposedly a Christian one but she left and he tried for reconciliation but she didn't want it so that was that and then some supposed "Christians" deserted him so he became bitter and stopped attending church. With me he had a 2nd chance at a Christian wife I like to think and to be a better Christian husband(he says) and correct the mistakes that he made in his first marriage(he claims some responsibility for the break-up) Plus God gave us 2 awesome kids. I always felt God brought us together but I've been fretting lately that maybe we're in adultery. So nice to see the Orthodox side of it as they are a church that goes all the way back to the 33 A.D. Our boys are grown and we've raised them in the Christian faith.

ArmyMatt · Apr 1, 2015

I always felt God brought us together but I've been fretting lately that maybe we're in adultery.

God knows your heart, and He knows what He is doing with you (and the rest of us). we are not to allow men who shed blood to become clergy, and yet St Barsanuphius of Optina (I think) was a colonel in the Russian military and became a very holy priest. what a great loss had folks merely looked at the letter of the law and not him.

ArmyMatt · Apr 1, 2015

on a sidebar, is there an Orthodox Church that you can visit close to you?

LizaMarie · Apr 2, 2015

^^Army Matt there is one a bit less than 2 hours away(or 80 miles) I do plan on visiting as soon as I get to that city. I've looked at their website and it looks good! Also I saw them mention on their website that their liturgical language is primarily in English- another plus for me.
It is a Greek Orthodox Church. I live in a rural part of the upper Midwest so this is definitely the closest as Orthodox churches are somewhat rare here.
I'm thinking of trying a Saturday vespers service if I can get there on a Saturday night.
I'm not into driving a lot but I would really like to visit.

ArmyMatt · Apr 2, 2015

where is your hometown (if you don't mind my asking, because a lot of times there could be one closer than you think)?

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