Dumpster Diving

[Mling]

That is, retrieving stuff from dumpsters--usually food, but sometimes furniture/appliances-- for your own use or to donate/give to others. Pre-packaged food still in its original packaging is most common. People I've known who do it are always honest about the origin of food that they give to others, so other people can decide for themselves whether they want it.

It is illegal, but are there moral/ethical considerations?

I'm especially interested in the opinions of store employees/managers or supervisors--do you receive any information or training regarding dumpster divers?

 

[Spaceman_Spiff]

That is, retrieving stuff from dumpsters--usually food, but sometimes furniture/appliances-- for your own use or to donate/give to others. Pre-packaged food still in its original packaging is most common. People I've known who do it are always honest about the origin of food that they give to others, so other people can decide for themselves whether they want it.

It is illegal, but are there moral/ethical considerations?

I'm especially interested in the opinions of store employees/managers or supervisors--do you receive any information or training regarding dumpster divers?

Is it illegal? Putting trash into a dumpster is illegal as the restaurants/stores pay by weight but removing some?

 

[Mling]

Is it illegal? Putting trash into a dumpster is illegal as the restaurants/stores pay by weight but removing some?

I just looked it up, and apparently it varies by region and personal interpretation, is intermeshed with trespassing laws (if you are, say, on a restaurant's premises when they are closed, or in an industrial area--would definitely apply if you went through somebody's personal trash, but I don't think people who identify as dumpster divers do that.) There are arguments about whether it constitutes theft, also (does a person still own something if they've thrown it away, but it's still on their business's property?)

So basically...it's really unclear. Some people have gotten in trouble for it, but most people who have gotten caught get a dirty look or a "Hey, get out of here."

At any rate, it's not generally considered a welcome activity, regardless of who you are or what you're taking.

Not by the people who run the place where the dumpster is, anyway. Survival centers and such sometimes accept dumpstered donations, and apparently the Food, Not Bombs organization gets a lot of food that way, for what that's worth.

 

[rambot]

I have no problem at ALL with dumpster divers. Essentially, they are recyclers and there's nothing wrong with that.

With that said, I friend of mine chucked some garbage in his dumpster and hit a diver who was in there (unbeknownst to him). The diver was choked and yelled at him. I'm not cool with that. Fella's gotta put a sign on there to let people know he's in there.

 

[jayem]

Why would food in intact packages be thrown out in the first place? The main reason I can think of is that it's gone beyond the expiration date. Do any food banks accept such products? Too much liability these days. No one wants to take the risk that a client will get sick and sue, even if the donated food had nothing to do with the client's illness.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

I worked in a grocery store for years in the produce section. The amount of fruit that is thrown away is quite ridiculous. Perfectly good apples, bananas and the like are tossed out everyday. Barrels of them. And that's the "good stuff" that actually makes it to the store. The orchards and fruit producers throw out loads more.

If packaged salads or fruits were one day old, they were chucked. I have knowingly eaten packaged spinach at least ten days after the expiry and have had no ill effects.

But I wasn't allowed to take the expired products home after my shift. I HAD to throw them in the trash. Store policy.

Knowing how good most of the stuff is that is thrown out at grocery stores, I would probably encourage those that are hungry to dumpster dive behind grocery stores.

 

[Mling]

Why would food in intact packages be thrown out in the first place? The main reason I can think of is that it's gone beyond the expiration date. Do any food banks accept such products? Too much liability these days. No one wants to take the risk that a client will get sick and sue, even if the donated food had nothing to do with the client's illness.

past the expiration date is one reason. Also, because a box got dented or torn and now it looks bad on the shelf and won't sell. Chips got squished and crumpled, etc. Also, food that is considered perishable--which includes packaged frozen foods, has to be thrown out if it goes too long, too warm.

that last one is significant when you consider situations like the freezer breaking--everything in it needs to be thrown away. it can't legally be sold, even if it's fine. or consider that an enormous amount of the northeast just lost power due to that freakin' Halloween blizzard...everybody I know is stocked up from now until the end of time

regarding things that could he done with expired foods, I've seen stores that collect up expired and overstock foods from other stores. I don't know why more places don't take advantage of.them.

 

[Mling]

I worked in a grocery store for years in the produce section. The amount of fruit that is thrown away is quite ridiculous. Perfectly good apples, bananas and the like are tossed out everyday. Barrels of them. And that's the "good stuff" that actually makes it to the store. The orchards and fruit producers throw out loads more.

If packaged salads or fruits were one day old, they were chucked. I have knowingly eaten packaged spinach at least ten days after the expiry and have had no ill effects.

But I wasn't allowed to take the expired products home after my shift. I HAD to throw them in the trash. Store policy.

Knowing how good most of the stuff is that is thrown out at grocery stores, I would probably encourage those that are hungry to dumpster dive behind grocery stores.

How did your supervisor feel about such things?

Part of the reason I'm trying to scout opinions is because a bunch of friends and I got caught diving after the storm--when the entire store had to be emptied. The employees found us first, and expressed the same sentiment you've said here. "Oh good, somebody got that--we're just glad it's going to somebody."

Then the supervisor came out and was LIVID! Threatened to call the police, yanked open one guy's car, accused us of stealing etc.

My understanding of the objections that managers might have is they there are concerns the store might be held liable if somebody gets sick. The opposition I'd expect from that sort of mindset would be more like, "scram! Get out of here before I call the cops! Shoo!"

This seemed much more personal, and much more...rage. so yeah...trying to figure out what that was all about.

 

[1000Flames]

Well, relevant to this thread I suppose. A personal friend of mine wrote this article for the local free paper. I thought it was pretty insightful.

Diving team - Arts & Culture - Arts&Culture - May 26, 2011 - Reno News & Review

 

[1000Flames]

I worked in a grocery store for years in the produce section. The amount of fruit that is thrown away is quite ridiculous. Perfectly good apples, bananas and the like are tossed out everyday. Barrels of them. And that's the "good stuff" that actually makes it to the store. The orchards and fruit producers throw out loads more.

If packaged salads or fruits were one day old, they were chucked. I have knowingly eaten packaged spinach at least ten days after the expiry and have had no ill effects.

But I wasn't allowed to take the expired products home after my shift. I HAD to throw them in the trash. Store policy.

Knowing how good most of the stuff is that is thrown out at grocery stores, I would probably encourage those that are hungry to dumpster dive behind grocery stores.

That's been my job for the past 6 years myself. You are right, the amount thrown away is pretty darn astonishing. To help a bit I guess, our store started a compost program that most of our "bad stuff" gets thrown into. Still unfortunate, but better than the regular trash bin I suppose. I wouldn't recommend diving into those bins though, they get quite nasty.

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

I love skip diving. I get wood for the fire so we don't have to put the heating on, food in packaging that supposedly went bad two days ago but is actually fine, clocks, chairs, crockery, It's great fun, and no-one gets hurt. My issue is with the companies that lock up their skips to stop people getting in to them. Supermarkets throw away perfectly good packaged vegetables because they've passed some arbitrary best before date...I'll happily cut off the mouldy bits and eat the rest, so why are they so intent on stopping me? Ultimately, once you have no use for something, it becomes fair game. If you throw something away, someone else has the right to have it if they want. If you let land lie fallow, someone else has the right to farm it. If you leave a property empty, someone else has the right to squat it.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

How did your supervisor feel about such things?

My supervisor in produce was pretty chill and I think he took more of a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. I'm pretty sure he knew that some of us ate the expired stuff, but as long as we didn't get caught by him (or especially by the store manager), all was well.

I think stores are partly concerned about people getting sick. But I think this is giving the profit-driven store too much credit.

The main factor is that grocery stores can claim back a percentage of their culled and expired products. So managers don't want employees eating stuff for free which they could have got a percentage back for. This is the reason why dumpster diving at a grocery store could be argued to be theft. The twisted system we have devised has made the garbage actually have a monetary value. The product the grocery store is claiming back is only being claimed because it is supposedly unfit for consumption. If the suppliers catch the grocer giving this food away then they will question why they didn't leave it on the display for purchase.

This leads to the primary reason why so much food is thrown out in the first place: consumers want the best. They will pick the most perfect produce first even though they know that the imperfect fruit is, for the most part, completely edible. Because of this, a lot of the stuff that gets thrown out is fit for consumption, but no one will buy it because its imperfect compared to the others. Its really quite ridiculous actually. So, next time you buy produce, pick the pocked and disfigured stuff; its still edible and you're the only one that will buy it so save it from just being tossed.

Another less related factor is the suppliers. The makers of the packaged salads don't want liability any more than the store does, so they would discourage sellers from selling product which they claim is expired. This is also why suppliers put such early expiry dates, they want to cover their butts.

This seemed much more personal, and much more...rage. so yeah...trying to figure out what that was all about.

I'm not sure why the manager would've got so angry. I think a lot of people view dumpster diving as "dirty" and therefore he probably looked down on you guys and had a little power trip.

 

[Gracchus]

I'm not sure why the manager would've got so angry. I think a lot of people view dumpster diving as "dirty" and therefore he probably looked down on you guys and had a little power trip.

He got angry because those getting stuff from the dumpster, weren't buying from the store. He probably doesn't care if you steal from someone else to buy from the store as long as the store gets a profit. Dumpster divers are objectionable because they don't turn a profit for the store.

 

[Mling]

He got angry because those getting stuff from the dumpster, weren't buying from the store. He probably doesn't care if you steal from someone else to buy from the store as long as the store gets a profit. Dumpster divers are objectionable because they don't turn a profit for the store.

Store wasn't open--not just for the night, but for a few days. Ill-timed blizzard knocked out power to everything, everywhere. "Buying" didn't exist here for a few days.

edit: That was sort of a brush off, wasn't it? Sorry about that. I wonder about that idea, though, that getting something for free is tantamount to stealing because it doesn't provide money for stores. A lot of people dive for things that they wouldn't have bought in the first place--it isn't a question between buying X or not buying X. It's between acquiring X not by buying; acquiring Y, Z or Q not by buying; or buying R, which is very cheap. Heck, I've got a bag full of mushrooms in my freezer that I didn't buy from anybody either--I plucked them out of the ground in the woods. Also some salmon that was given to my girlfriend and I buy some of her friends (originally bought, I think, or provided by their school.) Does declining to participate in a commercial system necessarily mean you're hurting it?

 

[Gracchus]

Store wasn't open--not just for the night, but for a few days. Ill-timed blizzard knocked out power to everything, everywhere. "Buying" didn't exist here for a few days.

edit: That was sort of a brush off, wasn't it? Sorry about that. I wonder about that idea, though, that getting something for free is tantamount to stealing because it doesn't provide money for stores. A lot of people dive for things that they wouldn't have bought in the first place--it isn't a question between buying X or not buying X. It's between acquiring X not by buying; acquiring Y, Z or Q not by buying; or buying R, which is very cheap. Heck, I've got a bag full of mushrooms in my freezer that I didn't buy from anybody either--I plucked them out of the ground in the woods. Also some salmon that was given to my girlfriend and I buy some of her friends (originally bought, I think, or provided by their school.) Does declining to participate in a commercial system necessarily mean you're hurting it?

Scavenging instead of buying is not tantamount to stealing, but it does cut into profits, if not in reality, at leat in the merchants's imagination. It is something the merchant can't control. It is frustrating. It doesn't have to make sense.
I have a job. I am better than a dumpster diver. Therefore, I have a right to order him around. I have a job. He is a bum. I am better than he. I should be able to control him.

It is more than economics. It is the malignant human spirit.

 

[Amber the Duskbringer]

As a former worker of the fine art of fuel technician (gas station pump jockey if you wanna be a turd about it) My manager was cool letting me and my roomie take expired food home. We also had a homeless guy come by and me and my roomie would share the spoils of what people didn't buy (lulz I make funny pun) and I don't care if it's illegal or not. It's a stupid law and when people are hungry they are hungry. I would rather that food go to some hungry mouths than be all douchy and stand guard on the dumpster. Trash is trash and IMO when you toss it out you relinquish all rights to gripe about it. Now OTOH if you are a diver and you make a mess, please clean it up, it's not cool to go back there and have to clean up something because you were lazy and tossed it out. Also well milk spoils quick and there are liability laws on why we can't give that out. But other food like the snack cakes etc well those have a bit longer expiration date than dairy or stuff that needs to be frozen or kept cold. I hate wasteful tossing of good food. Crumpled up chips are still edible. I know I wouldn't wanna buy it but to give it away is fine with me.

On the topic of old computers and stuff, I have found some decent parts behind my school, they would just toss printers, monitors and other stuff. I know it's still gubberment propertah but still, it's usable. Donate it or something sheesh. >,..,>

 

[rambot]

I love skip diving. I get wood for the fire so we don't have to put the heating on, food in packaging that supposedly went bad two days ago but is actually fine, clocks, chairs, crockery, It's great fun, and no-one gets hurt. My issue is with the companies that lock up their skips to stop people getting in to them. Supermarkets throw away perfectly good packaged vegetables because they've passed some arbitrary best before date...I'll happily cut off the mouldy bits and eat the rest, so why are they so intent on stopping me? Ultimately, once you have no use for something, it becomes fair game. If you throw something away, someone else has the right to have it if they want. If you let land lie fallow, someone else has the right to farm it. If you leave a property empty, someone else has the right to squat it.

I agree with everything except farming fallow land. That is done to give the land a chance to catch up and replace microorganisms and minerals that are depleted by farming year after year.
You give one year for the land (Israel did it every 7...i think modern farmers do it every 3 now). They could just do smarter crop rotation but with so much monoculture farming, it'll mess up the soil pretty good.

 

[wanderingone]

My son worked at a certain well known national seller of mass market plastic crap where they sometimes had to dump stuff that was no longer manufactured, or simply because the label had changed. They actually were ordered to damage/destroy items. Generally the employees managed to salvage quite a bit of this stuff, but there were people who were fired when they were caught.

There's no legitimate reason when the stuff isn't "expired" or recalled. (and recalled items aren't supposed to just go in a dumpster.. but that's another issue I guess) other than just being obnoxious and mean.

 

[Mling]

I love skip diving. I get wood for the fire so we don't have to put the heating on, food in packaging that supposedly went bad two days ago but is actually fine, clocks, chairs, crockery, It's great fun, and no-one gets hurt. My issue is with the companies that lock up their skips to stop people getting in to them. Supermarkets throw away perfectly good packaged vegetables because they've passed some arbitrary best before date...I'll happily cut off the mouldy bits and eat the rest, so why are they so intent on stopping me? Ultimately, once you have no use for something, it becomes fair game. If you throw something away, someone else has the right to have it if they want. If you let land lie fallow, someone else has the right to farm it. If you leave a property empty, someone else has the right to squat it.

I don't know about the UK, but in America, I've heard the locks are there to prevent people from putting things in, rather than taking them out. Store owners pay for disposal by the pound, so they don't want people tossing extra stuff in.

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

I agree with everything except farming fallow land. That is done to give the land a chance to catch up and replace microorganisms and minerals that are depleted by farming year after year.
You give one year for the land (Israel did it every 7...i think modern farmers do it every 3 now). They could just do smarter crop rotation but with so much monoculture farming, it'll mess up the soil pretty good.

Right you are, when I said letting it lie fallow I forgot that actually means leaving it temporarily; I meant if someone lets the land go to waste permanently, or with no intention of returning to it.