Dogma vs Doctrine vs Personal Opinion

[narnia59]

I think I'm fairly knowledgable about Catholic doctrine. However, I do sometimes get confused at to the difference between dogma and doctrine. As Catholics, I know we're required to believe both, so what's the difference?

And I know that just because the Pope says something, that doesn't mean it reaches the level of either of those. For example, I know Pope Benedict's book Jesus he offers as his personal views.

And I know that if he says something 'ex cathedra' is is dogma.

But other than that the line to me is blurry. If the pope gives a talk somewhere (like he did here in the US) -- is what he says only personal opinion unless it is re-iterating already known doctrine?

And is there a concise list anywhere of dogma and doctrine?

Thanks!

 

[geocajun]

There is no practical difference between doctrines and dogmas. Catholics are required to believe everything the church teaches. The best rule of thumb is to discuss any particular statements you have difficulty understanding or believing with a knowledgeable friend, catechist, or priest.

 

[JoabAnias]

I think I'm fairly knowledgable about Catholic doctrine. However, I do sometimes get confused at to the difference between dogma and doctrine. As Catholics, I know we're required to believe both, so what's the difference?

And I know that just because the Pope says something, that doesn't mean it reaches the level of either of those. For example, I know Pope Benedict's book Jesus he offers as his personal views.

And I know that if he says something 'ex cathedra' is is dogma.

But other than that the line to me is blurry. If the pope gives a talk somewhere (like he did here in the US) -- is what he says only personal opinion unless it is re-iterating already known doctrine?

And is there a concise list anywhere of dogma and doctrine?

Thanks!

Perhaps this is what your looking for:

From the work of Dr. Ludwig Ott, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma

Looking up "Denzingers" may also be helpful.

 

[narnia59]

There is no practical difference between doctrines and dogmas. Catholics are required to believe everything the church teaches. The best rule of thumb is to discuss any particular statements you have difficulty understanding or believing with a knowledgeable friend, catechist, or priest.

Do you disagree with these definitions then which indicates a difference between dogma and doctrine? Source is David Currie's book, Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic.

Deposit: "...the body of truth originally given to the apostles. In time, some of it was written into Scripture, while some of it remained in its original form of oral tradition. Protecting this deposit is the major responsibility of the bishops. The Church teaches that nothing can be added to or contradicted within the deposit."

Dogma: "...that body of truth that has been affirmed by the councils of the church and the Holy See of Rome. The further explanation, definition, and development of the concepts within the deposit, as well as the deposit itself, are contained within dogma. Once dogma has been declared by the bishops, it can be further developed but never contradicted....."

Doctrine: "... the development of truth on the basis of the deposit and dogma. Doctrine can develop and even contradict itself over time, because it is largely the thoughts of people. It has not been officially declared true or false by the Church." He goes on to say that, "...good, careful Evangelical scholars make the mistake of taking doctrine as the unchangeable teaching of the Church."

​

 

[narnia59]

Perhaps this is what your looking for:

From the work of Dr. Ludwig Ott, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma

Looking up "Denzingers" may also be helpful.

This is helpful, thank you!

 

[JoabAnias]

Do you disagree with these definitions then which indicates a difference between dogma and doctrine? Source is David Currie's book, Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic.

I think the key word in geo's statement was "practical". Don't mean to speak to much for him but thats what I got from what he said generally.

Still good advice. Spiritual direction is a wonderful thing.

 

[JoabAnias]

This is helpful, thank you!

My pleasure - any time.

 

[geocajun]

Do you disagree with these definitions then which indicates a difference between dogma and doctrine? Source is David Currie's book, Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic.

Deposit: "...the body of truth originally given to the apostles. In time, some of it was written into Scripture, while some of it remained in its original form of oral tradition. Protecting this deposit is the major responsibility of the bishops. The Church teaches that nothing can be added to or contradicted within the deposit."

Dogma: "...that body of truth that has been affirmed by the councils of the church and the Holy See of Rome. The further explanation, definition, and development of the concepts within the deposit, as well as the deposit itself, are contained within dogma. Once dogma has been declared by the bishops, it can be further developed but never contradicted....."

Doctrine: "... the development of truth on the basis of the deposit and dogma. Doctrine can develop and even contradict itself over time, because it is largely the thoughts of people. It has not been officially declared true or false by the Church." He goes on to say that, "...good, careful Evangelical scholars make the mistake of taking doctrine as the unchangeable teaching of the Church."

​

well sort of yes, doctrine cannot contradict itself. Currie is wrong on that point (great book though, but that error has come in before). That said however, I used the term practical because to the ordinary catholic there isn't much value in distinguishing between fallible, infallible, doctrines and dogmas. We have to assent to anything the church proposes for belief so in practice its only really useful for theologians.

 

[thereselittleflower]

I think I'm fairly knowledgable about Catholic doctrine. However, I do sometimes get confused at to the difference between dogma and doctrine. As Catholics, I know we're required to believe both, so what's the difference?

And I know that just because the Pope says something, that doesn't mean it reaches the level of either of those. For example, I know Pope Benedict's book Jesus he offers as his personal views.

And I know that if he says something 'ex cathedra' is is dogma.

But other than that the line to me is blurry. If the pope gives a talk somewhere (like he did here in the US) -- is what he says only personal opinion unless it is re-iterating already known doctrine?

And is there a concise list anywhere of dogma and doctrine?

Thanks!

The most pratical way to understand the difference between doctrine and dogma is that dogma is doctrine that has been difinitively defined and elevated to the highest level of assent of belief we are to give the teachings of the Church. All doctrines and dogmas are the infallible teachngs of the Catholic Church. Doctrines are elevated to the level of dogma when there is need to protect it from error for the good of the Church.


One can visualize doctrine and dogma this way - doctrines are the path we walk, and dogmas are the lights that illunimate that path to help us stay upon it.