• With the events that occured on July 13th, 2024, a reminder that posts wishing that the attempt was successful will not be tolerated. Regardless of political affiliation, at no point is any type of post wishing death on someone is allowed and will be actioned appropriately by CF Staff.

  • Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Does Jesus quote 1 Enoch?

Is the book of Enoch canonical?

  • Yes

    Votes: 3 8.3%
  • No

    Votes: 23 63.9%
  • Not all of them

    Votes: 3 8.3%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 7 19.4%

  • Total voters
    36

friend of

A private in Gods army
Site Supporter
Dec 28, 2016
5,762
4,050
provincial
✟880,894.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered, “You are mistaken because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30 In the resurrection, people will neither marry nor be given in marriage. Instead they will be like the angels of heaven."

I cannot find this quote, which expressly states that people will not marry, in the 66 books of the bible. I checked my NIV and NKJV and there was no footnote, strangely. Where did it come from and could it have been quoted from 1 Enoch? Jesus tells them they are mistaken for NOT understanding the scriptures, but which scriptures did Jesus have in mind when He told them about how things would be in future heaven with regard to marriage?

Below, there is no mention by any of these theologians where these scriptures of authority on the matter are to be found (I've read through them) and no mention is made of Jesus' source in the OT:

https://www.studylight.org/commentary/matthew/22-29.html
Matthew 22:30 -

So let's see if it's true. So far I've found this verse which speaks on the matter—
http://scriptural-truth.com/images/BookOfEnoch.pdf

1 Enoch 51:4 And in those days the mountains will leap like rams, and the hills will skip like lambs satisfied with milk, and all will become Angels in Heaven.



So, is 1 Enoch canonical for this present day? Why or why not. I could be totally off-base in all this and I admit as much. I think it's worth exploring if anyone has any insight that'd be great. Anyone who's read 1 Enoch let us know what your thoughts are. I'm undecided. Probably not, but I'm open to suggestions.

God bless,
 

dzheremi

Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian
Aug 27, 2014
13,897
14,161
✟458,148.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
The book of Enoch is canonical in the Tewahedo Orthodox churches of Ethiopia and Eritrea in East Africa, but not for anyone else -- not even the other churches of the Oriental Orthodox communion to which the Orthodox Tewahedo belong (the Coptic, Syriac Orthodox, Armenian, etc. churches do not have this book as part of their respective Biblical canons).
 
Upvote 0

SeventyOne

Well-Known Member
May 2, 2015
4,675
3,207
✟167,298.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvary Chapel
Marital Status
Married
Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered, “You are mistaken because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30 In the resurrection, people will neither marry nor be given in marriage. Instead they will be like the angels of heaven."

I cannot find this quote, which expressly states that people will not marry, in the 66 books of the bible. I checked my NIV and NKJV and there was no footnote, strangely. Where did it come from and could it have been quoted from 1 Enoch? Jesus tells them they are mistaken for NOT understanding the scriptures, but which scriptures did Jesus have in mind when He told them about how things would be in future heaven with regard to marriage?

Below, there is no mention by any of these theologians where these scriptures of authority on the matter are to be found (I've read through them) and no mention is made of Jesus' source in the OT:

Matthew 22:29 - But Jesus answered... - Verse-by-Verse Commentary
Matthew 22:30 -

So let's see if it's true. So far I've found this verse which speaks on the matter—
http://scriptural-truth.com/images/BookOfEnoch.pdf

1 Enoch 51:4 And in those days the mountains will leap like rams, and the hills will skip like lambs satisfied with milk, and all will become Angels in Heaven.



So, is 1 Enoch canonical for this present day? Why or why not. I could be totally off-base in all this and I admit as much. I think it's worth exploring if anyone has any insight that'd be great. Anyone who's read 1 Enoch let us know what your thoughts are. I'm undecided. Probably not, but I'm open to suggestions.

God bless,

It actually comes from Enoch 15. The concept is throughout that whole chapter but primarily verses 3 through 7. Speaking the angels who mated with women, He states:

You being spiritual, holy, and possessing a life which is eternal, have polluted yourselves with women; have begotten in carnal blood; have lusted in the blood of men; and have done as those who are flesh and blood do. These however die and perish.

Therefore have I given to them wives, that they might cohabit with them; that sons might be born of them; and that this might be transacted upon earth. But you from the beginning were made spiritual, possessing a life which is eternal, and not subject to death for ever. Therefore I made not wives for you, because, being spiritual, your dwelling is in heaven.
 
Upvote 0

paul1149

that your faith might rest in the power of God
Site Supporter
Mar 22, 2011
8,463
5,267
NY
✟697,524.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
I've never seen this connection made before, and it's a very good one. All my commentators are silent on the subject, which is interesting.

My own reading of 1 Enoch was that the first section felt very canonical, but then the book became much more disjointed, and I could see its overall canonicity falling into doubt.

Probably the go-to guy on Enoch is Michael Heiser, who has written a few books on various aspects of its theology. He's come up with some out-of-the-box, challenging ideas that make for some real food for thought. Here's a lecture where he touches on the allusions to 1 Enoch in Scripture. Should the Book of Enoch be in the Bible? - Dr. Michael Heiser . You can skip to 15:00 to save time, and then again to 35:00. Heiser's main pertinent point is that even though there are references to 1 Enoch in scripture, there are Scriptural references to plenty of other works as well, works that we assuredly don't want anywhere near the canon.

That's a powerful argument, but then, in this Matthean verse Jesus does seem to reference His source, whatever it might be, as "Scripture". And without checking, I don't think anything like that is true of the other Scriptural allusions people usually point out.

In that video Heiser cites a very thorough source for Scriptural allusions to Enoch and other works. I found it at New Testament Allusions to Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha – biblicalia. Under the Enoch section you will find references to the Matthew verse at points 15 and 37, or just do a page search for 'like angels'.
 
Upvote 0

friend of

A private in Gods army
Site Supporter
Dec 28, 2016
5,762
4,050
provincial
✟880,894.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
I've never seen this connection made before, and it's a very good one. All my commentators are silent on the subject, which is interesting.

My own reading of 1 Enoch was that the first section felt very canonical, but then the book became much more disjointed, and I could see its overall canonicity falling into doubt.

Fully agreed here
 
Upvote 0

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Site Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
61,878
10,260
US
✟1,422,841.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
I cannot find this quote, which expressly states that people will not marry, in the 66 books of the bible. I checked my NIV and NKJV and there was no footnote, strangely. Where did it come from and could it have been quoted from 1 Enoch? Jesus tells them they are mistaken for NOT understanding the scriptures, but which scriptures did Jesus have in mind when He told them about how things would be in future heaven with regard to marriage?

Here is a list of the numbers of copies of the most popular scrolls found at Qumran:

Book Number found
Psalms 39
Deuteronomy 33
1 Enoch 25
Genesis 24
Isaiah 22
Jubilees 21
Exodus 18
Leviticus 17
Numbers 11
Minor Prophets 10[note 1]
Daniel 8
Jeremiah 6
Ezekiel 6
Job 6
Tobit 5[note 2]
1 & 2 Kings 4
1 & 2 Samuel 4
Judges 4[515]
Song of Songs (Canticles) 4
Ruth 4
Lamentations 4
Sirach 3
Ecclesiastes 2
Joshua 2

Enoch was more popular than Genesis.

It's not canonical, because the people who created the canon did so after the Judaeans were scattered.
 
Upvote 0

friend of

A private in Gods army
Site Supporter
Dec 28, 2016
5,762
4,050
provincial
✟880,894.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
I don’t think he is necessarily quoting it.

It’s a similar statement, sure, but it doesn’t concretely prove that he quoted the so-called book of Enoch.

Fair enough.
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: Dkh587
Upvote 0

Dkh587

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 6, 2014
3,049
1,770
Southeast
✟575,510.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Fair enough.
Surely we can piece doctrine together on this, because he says to them, “you do not know the scriptures”.

It must be in the Law & Prophets(OT) in some fashion for him to say that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: baryogenesis
Upvote 0

friend of

A private in Gods army
Site Supporter
Dec 28, 2016
5,762
4,050
provincial
✟880,894.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
It must be in the Law & Prophets(OT) in some fashion for him to say that.

I recently read through OT like, last month and I couldn't find anything eluding to Christ's words in Matthew 22:30. I could be wrong and I might have missed it, so if anyone knows the exact scripture from the OT which Christ referenced, please let me know.
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: Dkh587
Upvote 0

SeventyOne

Well-Known Member
May 2, 2015
4,675
3,207
✟167,298.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvary Chapel
Marital Status
Married
I recently read through OT like, last month and I couldn't find anything eluding to Christ's words in Matthew 22:30. I could be wrong and I might have missed it, so if anyone knows the exact scripture from the OT which Christ referenced, please let me know.

Well, that would be the test. If Jesus called it scripture, and one makes the argument that the current OT in our Bibles is completed, then one could be able to go right to that part which states angels in Heaven do not marry and that we will be like them in that regard.

Funny thing is, Jesus quotes Enoch after the Sadducees asked him a question about a woman who married seven brothers, bearing no child, whose wife would she be in the resurrection. That was a situation pulled directly from Tobias 3, and not a hypothetical. That whole exchange deals with references to apocryphal texts, and most people have zero clue.
 
Upvote 0

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Site Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
61,878
10,260
US
✟1,422,841.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
I recently read through OT like, last month and I couldn't find anything eluding to Christ's words in Matthew 22:30. I could be wrong and I might have missed it, so if anyone knows the exact scripture from the OT which Christ referenced, please let me know.

According to Biblehub, these are your options:

Matthew 22:30
In the resurrection, people will neither marry nor be given in marriage. Instead, they will be like the angels in heaven.


Cross References
Matthew 22:31
But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what God said to you:

Matthew 24:38
For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark.

Luke 17:27
People were eating and drinking, marrying and being given in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.

Matthew 22:30 Cross References: For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as angels in heaven.
 
Upvote 0

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Site Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
61,878
10,260
US
✟1,422,841.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Surely we can piece doctrine together on this, because he says to them, “you do not know the scriptures”.

It must be in the Law & Prophets(OT) in some fashion for him to say that.

(CLV) Ju 1:14
Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesies to these also, saying, "Lo! the Lord came among ten thousand of His saints,
 
Upvote 0

Hawkins

Member
Site Supporter
Apr 27, 2005
2,644
411
Canada
✟274,654.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
No, the Sadducees' argument is against the concept of afterlife. Sadducees are a minority group rejected the idea of afterlife. Their argument in Matthew 22 is against the concept of resurrection itself, while they only accept the first 5 books of the Scripture. That's why Jesus rebuked them by saying that they don't know the Scripture and explained to them what they questioned. The situation has nothing to do with the book of Enoch.
 
Upvote 0

Dkh587

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 6, 2014
3,049
1,770
Southeast
✟575,510.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
(CLV) Ju 1:14
Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesies to these also, saying, "Lo! the Lord came among ten thousand of His saints,
i consider 2 possibilities... he was quoting a prophesy passed down by Enoch, or quoting from the book of Enoch.

quoting it doesn’t necessarily give it authority.
 
Upvote 0

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Site Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
61,878
10,260
US
✟1,422,841.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
i consider 2 possibilities... he was quoting a prophesy passed down by Enoch, or quoting from the book of Enoch.

quoting it doesn’t necessarily give it authority.

Generally when you quote someone to support your statement; you do it to bring more credibility to your own words.
 
Upvote 0

SeventyOne

Well-Known Member
May 2, 2015
4,675
3,207
✟167,298.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvary Chapel
Marital Status
Married
i consider 2 possibilities... he was quoting a prophesy passed down by Enoch, or quoting from the book of Enoch.

quoting it doesn’t necessarily give it authority.

Here, Jude references Enoch 2, calling it 'prophesy'. 2 Peter 1:21 tells us that no prophecy ever came by the will of man, but by men speaking from God.

By definition, if scripture is telling us that was a prophecy, and also that prophecy originates from God, then that makes it authoritative.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Hidden In Him
Upvote 0