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Does infant baptism count?

gtp40

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So I've recently been struggling with the issue of baptism. For a long time I never worried about the baptism debate because I was baptized as a child. Recently I've done some research on it and many people are saying that baptizing babies is just tradition and does not count as baptism. I keep doing research but I keep getting different answers, some say baby baptism counts, some say it doesn't, and some say you don't need baptism at all.

This is causing me a lot of anxiety and I'm wondering if anyone could give me some more information so I can be sure about this issue. Do I need to get baptized as a believing adult? Or is my baby baptism enough?

Thanks.
 

LiturgyInDMinor

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What other baptism would there be? I was baptized in my church, which is a Christian church. I would assume that's how it was.

So your answer is Yes then eh?
The reason I am asking was to make a point that some churches who call themselves "christian" only baptise in the name of Jesus alone, that is a oneness theology and is a heresy.


It's valid to every Christian church who is not legalistic in their views and teachings on baptism.
 
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ebia

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So I've recently been struggling with the issue of baptism. For a long time I never worried about the baptism debate because I was baptized as a child. Recently I've done some research on it and many people are saying that baptizing babies is just tradition and does not count as baptism. I keep doing research but I keep getting different answers, some say baby baptism counts, some say it doesn't, and some say you don't need baptism at all.

This is causing me a lot of anxiety and I'm wondering if anyone could give me some more information so I can be sure about this issue. Do I need to get baptized as a believing adult? Or is my baby baptism enough?

Thanks.
If you have been baptized then you are baptised. It's not possible to be baptised twice - it's a once for all thing.

The bulk of the church - Eastern Orthodox, Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans, Presbytarians, and fair number of protestant groups recognise that children who will be raised within Christian families are part of the People of God and should be baptised into that People of God at an early age.

A relatively small number of groups relatively recently have rejected infant baptism - mostly because they see baptism as primarily a visible committing of oneself to God rather than primarily as a bringing of the child into the People of God. I.e. it depends on whether you see it as about God and community or about me as an individual.

Fortunately these days most churches recognise baptisms whoever performed them (providing done in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit) - not so very long ago that wasn't the case.
 
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gtp40

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So your answer is Yes then eh?
The reason I am asking was to make a point that some churches who call themselves "christian" only baptise in the name of Jesus alone, that is a oneness theology and is a heresy.


It's valid to every Christian church who is not legalistic in their views and teachings on baptism.

Right, but I am wondering if it is valid to God. I know a lot of churches support it, but is it what God wants? A lot of people say that scripture lists baptism as a requirement for salvation, so what I'm wondering is if the type of baptism I had fulfills this requirement.
 
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LiturgyInDMinor

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If you have been baptized then you are baptised. It's not possible to be baptised twice - it's a once for all thing.

The bulk of the church - Eastern Orthodox, Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans, Presbytarians, and fair number of protestant groups recognise that children who will be raised within Christian families are part of the People of God and should be baptised into that People of God at an early age.

A relatively small number of groups relatively recently have rejected infant baptism - mostly because they see baptism as primarily a visible committing of oneself to God rather than primarily as a bringing of the child into the People of God. I.e. it depends on whether you see it as about God and community or about me as an individual.

Fortunately these days most churches recognise baptisms whoever performed them (providing done in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit) - not so very long ago that wasn't the case.

Good words.

I must add though that very few, or none at all, recognize baptism by Mormons or JW's as valid. Like I said, Christian baptisms. :)
But, there is also a problem IMHO with some churches...example:

the SBC church that I was a member of for a year or so before I became a Presbyterian(after much study) did NOT recognize any baptism that claimed "baptismal regeneration", ie Catholic and Churches of Christ among others.
I was baptised in the Catholic church as a wee baby. I was cute too! ;)
Anywho the baptist church did NOT recognize my baptism as valid...so I did what I did and got dunked.
My presbyterian church validated my Catholic baptism for membership, thus telling me that my second baptism was just a motion. I agree actually.

One of my current pastors said jokingly that I got "the best of both worlds". LOL
My second one didn't count to him, one baptism per Christian IMHO.

It's a very disturbing trend....that is making people get "rebaptised"!
 
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LiturgyInDMinor

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Baptism does not save...that is the only justification for one NOT to ever get baptised and still call themselves "christian"...but it's commanded eh.
If one calls themselves a Christian and then says...oh, I never and will never get baptised...in my book they aren't Christian.

Thankyou for listening.
 
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gtp40

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Baptism without faith is just water. You were baptized even the Southern Baptist Evangelist Billy Graham recognized infant baptism as valid just he prefered to practice Believers Baptism.

I definitely have faith now, have had faith for a long time, and always will have faith.
 
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ebia

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It's a very disturbing trend....that is making people get "rebaptised"!
Indeed.

When there is serious grounds for being concerned about the validity of the original (eg one really doesn't know whether it was in the name of the Trinity or not), then one can have a conditional baptism: "If you are not already baptised ... then I baptise you in the name of the Father, and of Son, and of the Holy Spirit..."
 
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LiturgyInDMinor

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I think baptism, especially after Jesus became our baptism, is very dangerous... partly for the reasons stated previously (Trinitarian baptism or what).

Ya got further info on this opinion?
 
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Athanasias

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So I've recently been struggling with the issue of baptism. For a long time I never worried about the baptism debate because I was baptized as a child. Recently I've done some research on it and many people are saying that baptizing babies is just tradition and does not count as baptism. I keep doing research but I keep getting different answers, some say baby baptism counts, some say it doesn't, and some say you don't need baptism at all.

This is causing me a lot of anxiety and I'm wondering if anyone could give me some more information so I can be sure about this issue. Do I need to get baptized as a believing adult? Or is my baby baptism enough?

Thanks.


One objection that fundamentalists have in regards to infant Baptism is related to the nature of Baptism in general. To the fundamentalist Christian, Baptism does not confer saving graces or justify and sanctify a person; rather, Baptism is a mere outward symbolic sign of a person who has already accepted Christ and has died with him through faith. The fundamentalists are flawed in their view of the nature of Baptism. While Baptism is an outward sign it is also true that Baptism is an efficacious sign that actually does what it signifies. Baptism confers saving graces and enables one to enter into initial justification and sanctification(1 Cor 6:11). St. Peter our first Pope proclaims that Christ saves through the waters of Holy Baptism just as he saved Noah’s family through water( 1 Peter 3:19-21). St. Paul instructs the Ephesians and Romans that it is God’s free gift of grace that initially saves them(Eph 2:5-9, Rom 5:15). St. Paul’s letter to Titus demonstrates that this free gift of grace and salvation is regenerative and comes about initially by the pouring upon the faithful in Baptism(Titus 3:5-7).

The book of Romans communicates the reality of original sin that all humanity inherited due to Adams transgressions.(Rom 5:12) God uses the sacrament of Baptism to cleanse and wash away ones sins, original and personal(Acts 22:16, Acts 2:38-39, Ezekiel 36:25-27). This is one reason why infants are baptized, especially in the danger of early death. The infant has no personal sin but the infant does have the stain of original sin, which needs to be washed away. For Jesus said that unless one is born of water and the Holy Spirit one cannot enter the kingdom of God(Jn 3:3-5). Origen, an early third century Scripture scholar, spoke of the saving grace of Baptism that remits sins and of infant Baptism in which he declared as a tradition given by the apostles. In the late second century St. Irenaeus spoke of salvation through Baptism and suggested that this salvation is also for infants. Even St. Polycarp, a first century of disciple of the apostle John, was baptized as an infant.



God’s covenant with Infants
Usually fundamentalists quote the Book of Acts 2:38-39) where St. Peter calls adults to repent and be baptized to demonstrate believer’s Baptism only . At first this verses may seem to be a stumbling block to those who teach infant Baptism, but when the Scriptures are viewed on a deeper level in its fuller context infant Baptism shines forth.

The passage doesn't disqualify infant Baptism. As a matter of fact the same passage implicitly teaches the possibility of infant Baptism. Notice what Peter declares right after his instructions. He says this “Baptism” is for you and your children. Nowhere does Peter specify age! If one studies the culture of the time the implications for infant Baptism become even clearer. The Hebrew mindset would have automatically understood Baptism to include infants as well as others. This is true especially since God used circumcision, a covenant ritual performed on infants, to enter them into the Jewish faith and communion with God(Gen 17:12). St. Paul describes the Sacrament of Baptism as the new covenant circumcision made without hands(Col 2:11-13). Hence the new covenant of Baptism fulfills the old covenant of circumcision. Baptism now enters you into the true religion and Family of God (the Church) and gives the baptized communion with God (the Trinity) enabling them as partakers of divine nature(2 Pet 1:4). If the old covenant could enter infants into God’s family then the new covenant can on an even greater level. Baptism is a typological fulfillment of circumcision. No covenant fulfillment is ever inferior to its Old Testament type. The fulfillment is always superior. If infants could not be baptized then Baptism would be an inferior covenant to circumcision.


Jesus tells the people that they are not to hinder even the infants to come to him and to receive the kingdom of God(Lk 18:15-17). Catholic Scripture scholar Dr Scott Hahn suggests this is an implicit hint to infant Baptism in Scripture, since Baptism is the doorway to God’s kingdom(Jn 3:3-5) and since the one must receive the kingdom of God like an infant.


The Catechism of the Catholic Church enlists the Baptism of families as evidence for the possibility of infant Baptism. Baptists tend to have difficulties in understanding infant Baptism because they tend to only see the salvation of a person as an absolute individualistic unit. However, Christ works to save individuals through his Church in a corporate nature and reveals this in household Baptisms. Infant Baptism is based upon the faith of the Church as a corporate body and the free gift of God’s grace. Catholic theologian and scholar Dr. Ludwig Ott quotes St. Augustine in regard to infant Baptism saying “The faith which infants lack is replaced by the faith of the Church”.

Although the normative practice of infant Baptism fluxuated in the early church, it is clear that nearly all the fathers of the Church at least allowed for it and many practiced it as the norm. St. Augustine, along with Origen, proclaimed infant Baptism to be an oral tradition of the Apostles that no one should doubt. The only early writer of the Church that had a problem with infant Baptism was Tertullian. Tertullian did not deny it for the same reasons Baptist do; he instead denied original sin. This view, among others, led him to eventually leave Catholicism and embrace the heresy of Montanism.

Conclusion
Reviewing Scripture in its context as a whole as well as its immediate and typological context reveals that infant Baptism is a correct practice in Christianity. Baptist tradition teaches against infant Baptism, but from the very beginning of Christianity the early Church fathers demonstrated their support for this practice. The majority of Christians worldwide, including the majority of Sola Scriptura "Bible only" Protestants such as Lutherans, Methodist, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, also see the same Biblical implications and baptize infants. The Christians who do not are Baptist Protestants and those who have been influenced by Baptist Protestants. These groups are in the minority but they are also growing, and it is important to preach and know the truth about infant Baptism. Unlike the fundamentalist Christians, when put to the test the Catholic truth on infant baptism shines forth biblically, historically, and logically.
 
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LiturgyInDMinor

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One objection that fundamentalists have in regards to infant Baptism is related to the nature of Baptism in general. To the fundamentalist Christian, Baptism does not confer saving graces or justify and sanctify a person;

Good point Athanasis. :)
I must add that they also do not see Baptism as a sign and seal of a covenant with GOD either.

They are fundamentally wrong on these points IMHO. ;)
(pun definately intended!)
 
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LiturgyInDMinor

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More or less, I would say Athanasias said it well.

I think that it is between you and Our Father the details of what He wants from you specifically, but baptism by someone else in the name of God is not required for salvation or entering the kingdom of heaven. It was merely a gesture of obedience toward God.

When Jews got baptized, it did NOT mean they were sanctified. Quite the contrary, the Jews knew that only Yeshua the Savior could save them from spending eternity in Sheol (colloquially, Hell). Jesus did it out of obedience for His father, but Jesus said that spiritual baptism is what matters.

Requirements for salvation and entering the kingdom of Heaven (John 3:3-7, John 3:16):
1. Born of a WOMAN and MAN i.e. you MUST be human, no hybrids or fallen holy ones. (Note, angels that are holy cannot "enter" heaven because it is their dwelling)

2. Born again spiritually i.e. you MUST accept Yeshua as your Savior, and believe in your heart He died, defeated sin, and was resurrected as the first spirit-filled human.

3. Whosoever BELIEVES in Yeshua shall not perish, but will have everlasting life. BELIEF in Yeshua is all encompassing: follow the law, the statutes, and walk upright as Yeshua. Show Him you love Him.
The way I see it, if it is a tradition of man, and it is not required for salvation or entering the kingdom of Heaven, I wouldn't do it. Better not to participate than bruise your spiritual standing with Our Father.

For example, if someone said "Easter was the celebration of the resurrection of Jesus," and another person said "It is a pagan worship ceremony of the fertility goddess Ishtar," and I know Easter isn't required for salvation, I wouldn't (and don't) celebrate that holiday.

Ok, I got where yer coming from now. :thumbsup:

Your quote here struck me:

The way I see it, if it is a tradition of man, and it is not required for salvation or entering the kingdom of Heaven, I wouldn't do it.

I did it. In a Baptist church, it was required because they lacked the knowledge of the essence of what baptism is all about and had a legalistic standpoint to it all...so I got rebaptised and at the time didn't realize that I rejected my Catholic baptism.
I know better now for sure. :)
I still stick with my main point that baptism should be done by a Christian period....our Lord did it, we must do it not for salvific affect but for mere humble obedience.


Thanks for the insight brother.
 
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