Do speeders go to hell?

[blackhole]

From the protestant point of view, please.

Romans 13 commands us to obey the government.

And 1 John 2:3-4 says: Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

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So then can we fairly say that if someone is a speeder and they don't repent, and they do this for their entire lives, that they are not Christian -- even if they claim to be?

 

[ewq1938]

Romans 13 commands us to obey the government.

And 1 John 2:3-4 says: Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

--------

So then can we fairly say that if someone is a speeder and they don't repent, and they do this for their entire lives, that they are not Christian -- even if they claim to be?

Speeding is not against any moral laws and will not send someone to hell if it's just about speeding.

 

[blackhole]

Speeding is not against any moral laws and will not send someone to hell if it's just about speeding.

What is the textual basis for your distinction?

 

[HatedByAll]

Sinful driving is driving unsafely. The problem with saying speeders are sinning is that in some circumstances, driving the speed limit is actually unsafe driving. For example, on Interstates around large cities, the speed of the traffic is usually 10 or more miles per hour faster than the posted speed limit. Then along comes a "legalist" who is driving the exact speed limit or even below the speed limit. In this case this "legalist" causes other drivers to bunch up and take unnecessary risks to get around them. The speeders flowing with the rest of the traffic are the safe drivers. Those driving considerably faster or slower are unsafe. So, who is being considerate to their fellow drivers?

 

[blackhole]

Sinful driving is driving unsafely. The problem with saying speeders are sinning is that in some circumstances, driving the speed limit is actually unsafe driving. For example, on Interstates around large cities, the speed of the traffic is usually 10 or more miles per hour faster than the posted speed limit. Then along comes a "legalist" who is driving the exact speed limit or even below the speed limit. In this case this "legalist" causes other drivers to bunch up and take unnecessary risks to get around them. The speeders flowing with the rest of the traffic are the safe drivers. Those driving considerably faster or slower are unsafe. So, who is being considerate to their fellow drivers?

For brevity, I'll grant your scenario.

What about speeders who live in relatively rural areas where not driving above the speed limit poses zero risk?

 

[HTacianas]

Romans 13 commands us to obey the government.

And 1 John 2:3-4 says: Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

--------

So then can we fairly say that if someone is a speeder and they don't repent, and they do this for their entire lives, that they are not Christian -- even if they claim to be?

"for he is a minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is a minister of God, an avenger for wrath to him that doeth evil."

And he will give you a fine for that.

 

[ewq1938]

What is the textual basis for your distinction?

Actually the lack of textual basis for speeders going to hell is what supports the distinction. Speeding cannot in any way be compared to someone who kills children or commits the unforgivable sin and goes to hell. The speeder obviously isn't someone doing evil.

This is like saying someone who plays the flute too loud at night should go to hell while his neighbor tortures his children by stabbing them with a knife.

 

[blackhole]

"for he is a minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is a minister of God, an avenger for wrath to him that doeth evil."

And he will give you a fine for that.

Rom 13:5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.

not only because of wrath.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Romans 13 commands us to obey the government.

And 1 John 2:3-4 says: Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

--------

So then can we fairly say that if someone is a speeder and they don't repent, and they do this for their entire lives, that they are not Christian -- even if they claim to be?[/QUOTE

No, you cannot fairly say that. Suppose a person had been saved for a year or so and died speeding? I am not saying that anyone should break the law of the land. But God's judgement is firstly, are you born again. If you are, you are already in heaven (Ephesians 2:6). God identifies us in Christ. Either you are in Christ or you are not.

If indeed you are in Christ, then the work of deliverance begins. God wants to set us free from sinful attitudes, sinful ways and all that hinders our life and witness. It is a process, not instant. Some wrong ways can take decades to change. God usually works entirely differently from what we might expect. For example, the spiritual man I ever knew was a smoker when I met him. I was bewildered by this. How could he? The Lord rebuked me for judging him. Eventually he quit. But God had a purpose in that weakness. As an aside, Charles Spurgeon smoked cigars all his life.

Anyone who is born again does not want to sin. Anyone who says that they do not sin is kidding themselves. The real issues God wants to deal with are internal, not external. He deals with pride, rebellion, stubbornness and independence as priorities. How that works in practice depends on the individual. Confession: I am a leadfoot. If I get the opportunity I will drive as fast as I legally can. I used to speed all the time. The Lord caused me to come to the place where I obeyed the speed limit. I was born again when I was speeding. I am just as born again now that I obey the law.

 

[blackhole]

Actually the lack of textual basis for speeders going to hell is what supports the distinction. Speeding cannot in any way be compared to someone who kills children

... I'll update my OP and note that I'm asking for a protestant response.

 

[blackhole]

[...]

I can't quote your post because you put all of your text inside of a quote.

 

[HatedByAll]

For brevity, I'll grant your scenario.

What about speeders who live in relatively rural areas where not driving above the speed limit poses zero risk?

I still believe the purpose of speeding laws to to maintain a safe roadway for all. We all know of "speed traps" where the posted speed is considerably less than the natural speed that the least capable driver would drive. For example, in my city there are roads that have a posted speed of 30 mph that have identical driving conditions as the roads they connect to that have a speed limit of 45. The speed is what it is just because of ordinances made probably 70 years ago. An 80 year old driver would not drive 30 on these roads. There is no justifiable reason for the speed limit.

So, in this case, the only reason to drive the speed limit is to keep from getting a ticket.

In my opinion, a person driving perfectly safe but taking the extra five mile per hour most law enforcement agencies grant drivers is obeying the intent of the law even if they are not following the letter of the law. But having said that, if you are taking the five in a school zone then all bets are off. Then you are driving unsafely and deserve the ticket, and being called a sinner.

 

[blackhole]

I still believe the purpose of speeding laws to to maintain a safe roadway for all. We all know of "speed traps" where the posted speed is considerably less than the natural speed that the least capable driver would drive. For example, in my city there are roads that have a posted speed of 30 mph that have identical driving conditions as the roads they connect to that have a speed limit of 45. The speed is what it is just because of ordinances made probably 70 years ago. An 80 year old driver would not drive 30 on these roads. There is no justifiable reason for the speed limit.

So, in this case, the only reason to drive the speed limit is to keep from getting a ticket.

In my opinion, a person driving perfectly safe but taking the extra five mile per hour most law enforcement agencies grant drivers is obeying the intent of the law even if they are not following the letter of the law. But having said that, if you are taking the five in a school zone then all bets are off. Then you are driving unsafely and deserve the ticket, and being called a sinner.

Imagine someone who drives 10 over the limit literally almost always, and this causes traffic problems: he breaks away from the group, so that other people don't have an opening to merge onto the road, and causes other issues as well. It is a safety hazard, but more so it's simply making things difficult for other drivers.

He does this for his entire life. Does this speeder go to hell?

 

[Aussie Pete]

I can't quote your post because you put all of your text inside of a quote.

Ok, I can't see my post either. That was not very clever.

 

[blackhole]

Ok, I can't see my post either. That was not very clever.

Just edit your post, then copy and paste your text to the outside of the quote brackets.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Just edit your post, then copy and paste your text to the outside of the quote brackets.

Sure, when I can find it again.....

 

[Aussie Pete]

Sure, when I can find it again.....

Just edit your post, then copy and paste your text to the outside of the quote brackets.

Gottit. It was hiding.

No, you cannot fairly say that. Suppose a person had been saved for a year or so and died speeding? I am not saying that anyone should break the law of the land. But God's judgement is firstly, are you born again. If you are, you are already in heaven (Ephesians 2:6). God identifies us in Christ. Either you are in Christ or you are not.

If indeed you are in Christ, then the work of deliverance begins. God wants to set us free from sinful attitudes, sinful ways and all that hinders our life and witness. It is a process, not instant. Some wrong ways can take decades to change. God usually works entirely differently from what we might expect. For example, the spiritual man I ever knew was a smoker when I met him. I was bewildered by this. How could he? The Lord rebuked me for judging him. Eventually he quit. But God had a purpose in that weakness. As an aside, Charles Spurgeon smoked cigars all his life. (I can't stand the smell of cigars).

Anyone who is born again does not want to sin. Anyone who says that they do not sin is kidding themselves. The real issues God wants to deal with are internal, not external. He deals with pride, rebellion, stubbornness and independence as priorities. How that works in practice depends on the individual. Confession: I am a leadfoot. If I get the opportunity I will drive as fast as I legally can. I used to speed all the time. The Lord caused me to come to the place where I obeyed the speed limit. I was born again when I was speeding. I am just as born again now that I obey the law.

 

[GaveMeJoy]

Actually the lack of textual basis for speeders going to hell is what supports the distinction. Speeding cannot in any way be compared to someone who kills children or commits the unforgivable sin and goes to hell. The speeder obviously isn't someone doing evil.

This is like saying someone who plays the flute too loud at night should go to hell while his neighbor tortures his children by stabbing them with a knife.

All sin is equal in God’s eyes according to the scripture. Therefore, if speeding is against the law and the Christian speeds, that violates the scriptures on obeying the law. In my opinion, however, with speeding there is a grey area in that the police don’t enforce 65 mph, typically in my area you won’t get pulled over unless you are doing like 75+. So One could argue the actual law, ie expectation from law enforcement is not to exceed 75mph even if it’s a 65 mph zone. However that’s a bit of a stretch. Christians should follow the law.

 

[GaveMeJoy]

Sinful driving is driving unsafely. The problem with saying speeders are sinning is that in some circumstances, driving the speed limit is actually unsafe driving. For example, on Interstates around large cities, the speed of the traffic is usually 10 or more miles per hour faster than the posted speed limit. Then along comes a "legalist" who is driving the exact speed limit or even below the speed limit. In this case this "legalist" causes other drivers to bunch up and take unnecessary risks to get around them. The speeders flowing with the rest of the traffic are the safe drivers. Those driving considerably faster or slower are unsafe. So, who is being considerate to their fellow drivers?

I disagree. Sinning is breaking the laws of the government except in cases where you are required to do something against the law of God, in which case you can respectfully refuse. There are no scriptural indications that it’s ok to break laws just because everyone else is doing it.

The most ironic part of your example is you actually attempt to place blame on the law abiding citizen for dangers created because the other drivers are violating the law by going faster than the speed limit. Speed limits are not set by chance or at random, there is city planning, transportation study and research that goes into determining what is the safest maximum speed for a given road.

If everyone on the road followed the exact speed limits, none of the supposed negatives from doing so that you named would exist.

the only loophole I can see is possibly looking at speed limits as a grey area because the police don’t enforce unless it’s 10+ mph over posted limits, so I suppose someone could say the actual “law” is drive safely and keep it around 70-75mph, even though the technical law is 65mph....


just my thoughts!

 

[blackhole]

All sin is equal in God’s eyes according to the scripture.

Lk 12:47 And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.

James 3:1 My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment.

Your turn.