Do Baptists believe in Saints?

[cdann40]

Hello Everyone,
I have another basic question. As those of you who have not read anything from me, I come from a Catholic/Orthodoxy background, both of which the Saints are an important part of. I would like to learn more about the Baptist faith as well as early Christianity and was wondering if Baptists believe(not sure how else to put it) or follow the writings of great men such as St. Augustine, St. John Chrysostom, or St. Francis of Assisi. If not, does this mean that Baptists deem their writings as irrelevant? Once again, I ask for understanding for my ignorance and apologize if I may have offended anyone. I thank you for assistance in my education process.

 

[Vince53]

Although the Catholic Church doesn't like to admit it, many of the saints contradicted each other and even quarreled among themselves. Many of them believed doctrines that the Catholic Church has labeled as heresy.

 

[TimRout]

Baptist scholars read and appreciate the Church Fathers and other historically significant contributors. However, we recognize only the Bible as our source of theological authority. In keeping with biblical usage, we consider all born again people to be "saints". We do not consider those canonized by the RC or EO Churches to be of particular importance.

Hope this helps. Feel free to ask further questions.

 

[Ave Maria]

All born again people are saints, not just the ones in Heaven.

 

[dinomight]

Because there are a wide variety of Baptist churches, I can't speak for them all, but certainly at my church the pastor refers to historical church figures from time to time in his sermons. The fact is, Christian churches (perhaps with a few exceptions) share a common history with the Catholic and Orthodox churches. These writings, from a time before division, hold great insight into the development and understanding of Christian theology.

I, personally, also share your interest in early Christian history, and I think the Church Fathers and many of the canonized saints hold a very important place in our heritage; I would hate to think anyone would ignore them because they were "catholic" since at one point the whole Church was catholic.

No, Baptist churches don't recognize canonized saints in the same way the Catholics and Orthodox churches do, but they are still often seen as important Christian thinkers, leaders, etc. I've read some of the writings of St. Augustine and St. John Chrysostom in particular, not to mention St. Clement and some of the others, and what a blessing it was for me to learn how these men thought and how they related to Christ.

I pray God will bless you in your studies and that your relationship with and understanding of Christ will always grow ever deeper.

 

[rcorlew]

Umm. all believers are called saints!

 

[TimRout]

"Paul, a bond-servant of Jesus Christ...to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ." [Ro. 1:1,7/NASB]

Notice the equation of the "beloved" with "saints".

 

[rcorlew]

"Paul, a bond-servant of Jesus Christ...to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ." [Ro. 1:1,7/NASB]

Notice the equation of the "beloved" with "saints".

I think that I counted over 50 times that we (believers) are called saints in the New Testament.

Just something to chew on.

 

[TimRout]

I think that I counted over 50 times that we (believers) are called saints in the New Testament.

Just something to chew on.

Right! I was affirming your statement, not challenging it.

 

[leothelioness]

As already stated, I believe that all of us in the Lord are saints. But, I also recognise the importance of those who have gone before us and find their writings to be wise and inspirational (my sig is an example). However, I do not place their writings on the same level or above the Bible.

 

[rcorlew]

Right! I was affirming your statement, not challenging it.

I knew that, I was just putting some data into the conversation.

I did not even know that we (believers) are the saints. I was doing some research for a Bible Study lesson and almost fell over when I came across some of those verses. I even found about 2 verses that calls us angels, about 10 that says we are holy, about 10 that say we are blameless, and about 6 that say we are perfect, all contextually equal also in deriving their meaning.

That really puts Ephesians chapter 3 (the one where we are to act worthy of our calling) into perspective!

 

[Bro_Sam]

I would like to learn more about the Baptist faith as well as early Christianity and was wondering if Baptists believe(not sure how else to put it) or follow the writings of great men such as St. Augustine, St. John Chrysostom, or St. Francis of Assisi. If not, does this mean that Baptists deem their writings as irrelevant?

The Bible says that all born again Christians are saints, not just a select few. What’s more, they’re people whom God has appointed as saints, not the pope or any body of men.

As one of my professors would say about St. Augustine, St. John Chrysostom, or St. Francis of Assisi, "Their writings are inspiring, but not inspired". In other words, they’re instructive, but shouldn’t be considered on a par with scripture. They’re just the opinions of men and should be treated as such. As long as they line up with scripture, fine. If not, then we shouldn’t bother with them. But in the end, their opinions are worth no more or less than any other man.

Although the Catholic Church doesn't like to admit it, many of the saints contradicted each other and even quarreled among themselves. Many of them believed doctrines that the Catholic Church has labeled as heresy.

Yeah, I didn’t realize until somebody pointed it out to me just yesterday that Nestorius is venerated as a saint in some sects within the Catholic Church.

Let’s also not forget the time Santa Claus punched Arius in the mouth at the Council of Nicea because his heresy drove St Nick over the edge.

 

[Miss Elly]

Hello Everyone,
I have another basic question. As those of you who have not read anything from me, I come from a Catholic/Orthodoxy background, both of which the Saints are an important part of. I would like to learn more about the Baptist faith as well as early Christianity and was wondering if Baptists believe(not sure how else to put it) or follow the writings of great men such as St. Augustine, St. John Chrysostom, or St. Francis of Assisi. If not, does this mean that Baptists deem their writings as irrelevant? Once again, I ask for understanding for my ignorance and apologize if I may have offended anyone. I thank you for assistance in my education process.

It is up to God to judge men after death and decide who will enter heaven. What if some of these "great men" did not enter into heaven? The RC church is attempting to do God's job when they "officially" declare these dead folks saints. We who know beyond a shadow of a doubt we are redeemed by the blood of Jesus are already saints and no discrimination of any church matters. We can know we are saints here and will be saints in heaven as well. I don't need a church formally declaring me a saint, either dead for alive Too much emphasis on "saints" declared by the Roman Catholic church takes away from the love we should be giving Jesus. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, is one of the 10 commandments.

 

[Vince53]

My wife's a saint. She's put up with me for 32 years.



I gave her the best years of my life,






because she made them the best years of my life.

 

[JohnDB]

I guess many of the others previously have answered your basic question as they understood it.

But also to add some nuance to what they are saying.

We consider those in the Early Church as forefathers in the faith. Simple men with an absolute complete passion for One whom they knew.

What I find amazing is that their theologies are all over the place. Some are much more literalists than others...some see things in a much more metaphorical nature when looking at scripture. Some see a combination of the two. (most common view today)

Obviously all of these forefathers were important to God and Jesus or else they wouldn't have been put in places of leadership. All of them had some kind of quality to them that God obviously seen was needed in the Early Church. I doubt it was much of their "advanced theologies" as they all disagreed with each other on those issues. That being said it is obvious that since the giving of the Old Testament was mishandled and not cut straight that the majority of believers today will not do the same. Sure they get some things right...but miss the main point somewhere along the way.

At the time of Christ the Old Testament was rather broken up into categories. The Law or the Torah was the most holiest of books. (five books of moses) Then after that the rest was not deemed as holy as the rest of it all the way down to the Apocrypha and pseudopigrapha (which were never considered part of the bible or scripture...but the apocrypha was placed with scripture...kinda like the maps in your average study bible has today or a concordance)

We think highly of these men usually for their leadership, passion for Jesus and God amongst some of the heaviest persecution imaginable.

We no longer carry foward the worship of our forefathers in a manner as we once did in Old Testament times. That is part of the meaning of Sabbath rest. We all are to enter the Holy of Holies ourselves and ask for ourselves for our remission of sins. No other intemediary is needed other than Jesus. We all believe in a personal relationship with a personal God who already does know us and loves us in spite of our many faults and failings.

Instead of looking to the forefathers that the Catholic Church looks to most baptists look to others as theological leaders. Usually the writers of various commentaries as evidensed on these forums.

The pail of orthodoxy is wide in Baptist churchs. It is really hard to put a finger on any of it. It varies from congregation to congregation and preacher to preacher. A few bastists do have a heirchical structure but most do not.

Kinda strange from what you are used to...but it has been working obviously.

 

[Dogperson]

As a member of a Freewill Baptist denomination, we consider all who are in Christ to be saints, whether living or dead. The writings of St. Francis, etc. are not considered the inspired word of God. Maybe you could think of their writings on a par with the writings of Dr. Charles Stanley, Max Lucado, etc. in that they are Christian teachers & writers. We would never pray to a saint. Hope this helps!

 

[Bro_Sam]

The pail of orthodoxy is wide in Baptist churchs.

Pssst...it's pale.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Hello Everyone,
I have another basic question. As those of you who have not read anything from me, I come from a Catholic/Orthodoxy background, both of which the Saints are an important part of. I would like to learn more about the Baptist faith as well as early Christianity and was wondering if Baptists believe(not sure how else to put it) or follow the writings of great men such as St. Augustine, St. John Chrysostom, or St. Francis of Assisi. If not, does this mean that Baptists deem their writings as irrelevant? Once again, I ask for understanding for my ignorance and apologize if I may have offended anyone. I thank you for assistance in my education process.

The Bible does not tell whether or not St. Augustine, St. John Chrysostom, or St. Francis of Assisi sometimes wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Neither does the Bible tell us whether or not the books that we consider to be canonical really are. The Greek text of 2 Tim. 3:16 can be translated as,

16. All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, (NRSV)

16. Every scripture inspired by God is also useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, (NRSV, alternate translation found in a footnote)

16. Every writing inspired by God is also useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, (the Greek word rendered as Scripture is the common Greek noun for any written document)

If the rendering found in the text of the NRSV is the correct rendering, one must ask whether Paul was writing exclusively of the Old Testament canon, or the Old Testament canon plus some additional writing that he did not specify. If the rendering found in the NRSV footnote is the correct rendering, Paul may have been writing of an unspecified body of literature with which he and Timothy were familiar, but we are not. The Bible simply does not tell us what body of literature Paul is referring to.

If the third rendering is the correct rendering, Paul may have been writing of all inspired literature. The Bible simply does not tell us what literature Paul had in mind when he wrote 2 Tim. 3:16. In Jude vv. 14-15, Jude quotes from 1 Enoch, apparently believing it to be an inspired work. I personally believe that the Protestant canon is the final authority for doctrine and practice, but that is little more than my own personal belief. Are the deuterocanonical Books any less inspired than the books in the Protestant canon? The Bible does not answer that question, and the answer must be sought in a very careful study of these books. The very same things are true of the writing of the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers and the writings of others. It is also true, however, that many extracanonical writings have shaped to at least some extent what Baptists and other Christians believe today. All Christians, including Baptists, have their traditions that they tenacious cling to, but Baptists tend to be less willing to say so.

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

16. Every scripture inspired by God is also useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, (NRSV, alternate translation found in a footnote)

16. Every writing inspired by God is also useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, (the Greek word rendered as Scripture is the common Greek noun for any written document)

All trusted translations don't translate it these ways. Also, I know enough Greek from 2 years of study to know that there is good reason that they don't translate it these ways.

NET
2 Timothy 3:16 Every scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

NASB
2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

1587 Geneva
2 Timothy 3:16 For the whole Scripture is giuen by inspiration of God, and is profitable to teache, to conuince, to correct, and to instruct in righteousnesse,

NCV
2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is given by God and is useful for teaching, for showing people what is wrong in their lives, for correcting faults, and for teaching how to live right.

New Jerusalem Bible
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is inspired by God and useful for refuting error, for guiding people's lives and teaching them to be upright.

1833 Webster Bible
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

ESV
2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

NIV
2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is Godbreathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

1568 Bishops Bible
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is geuen by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable to doctrine, to reproue, to correction, to instruction which is in ryghteousnesse,

HCSB
2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, for rebuking, for correcting, for training in righteousness,

I will take the wisdom of all of these translators and my knowledge of Greek over your translation.

 

[millyvanilly]

All trusted translations don't translate it these ways. Also, I know enough Greek from 2 years of study to know that there is good reason that they don't translate it these ways.


I will take the wisdom of all of these translators and my knowledge of Greek over your translation.

to that MatthewDiscipleofGod. we have to be so careful which translation is being used don't we! and who the authors are!