Do all the Eastern Churches allow divorce?

[lankyknight1990]

Just making an enquiry to see if what I read about the EO was true in the fact they allow Divorce up to 3 times and remarriage in the church

 

[Monica child of God 1]

From The Orthodox Church, by Metropolitan Kallistos (Ware):

The Orthodox Church permits divorce and remarriage, quoting as its authority the text of Matthew 19:9, where Our Lord says: “If a man divorces his wife, for any cause other than unchastity, and marries another, he commits adultery.” Since Christ allowed an exception to His general ruling about the indissolubility of marriage, the Orthodox Church also is willing to allow an exception. Certainly Orthodoxy regards the marriage bond as in principle lifelong and indissoluble, and it condemns the breakdown of marriage as a sin and an evil. But while condemning the sin, the Church still desires to help the sinners and to allow them a second chance. When, therefore, a marriage has entirely ceased to be a reality, the Orthodox Church does not insist on the preservation of a legal fiction. Divorce is seen as an exceptional but necessary concession to human sin; it is an act of oikonomia (‘economy’ or dispensation) and of philanthropia (loving kindness). Yet although assisting men and women to rise again after a fall, the Orthodox Church knows that a second alliance can never be the same as the first; and so in the service for a second marriage several of the joyful ceremonies are omitted, and replaced by penitential prayers.

Orthodox Canon Law, while permitting a second or even a third marriage, absolutely forbids a fourth. In theory the Canons only permit divorce in cases of adultery, but in practice it is sometimes granted for other reasons as well.

 

[lankyknight1990]

alright thanks for dat

 

[MKJ]

So, is the allowance of a second or third marriage subject to any particular scruitiny. In Anglicanism, for example, it can only be undertaken with the permission of the Bishop.

And I am curious about how common that is too. As I understand it, and I may be wrong here, the three marriage guideline also includes those whose spouse has died. How common is a second or third marriage, and how often are people told "no"?

 

[gzt]

Yes, it requires permission from the bishop.

Yes, it includes widows and widowers.

I really don't know how often this occurs or how often people are told "no".

 

[Monica child of God 1]

I don't know how often people are told no either. I don't think I know anyone who has been married more than once in the Orthodox Church. I know a few who had first marriages before they were Orthodox and they were allowed to remarry.

M.

 

[MKJ]

I don't know how often people are told no either. I don't think I know anyone who has been married more than once in the Orthodox Church. I know a few who had first marriages before they were Orthodox and they were allowed to remarry.

M.

Ah thanks. That is rather what I expected. I wasn't really looking for statistics, since I don't imagine anyone keeps them. More people's personal observations of how often people get remarried.

 

[MariaRegina]

Yes, it requires permission from the bishop.

Yes, it includes widows and widowers.

I really don't know how often this occurs or how often people are told "no".

I know several people who were NOT blessed by the Orthodox Bishop when they requested a second or a third marriage. The bishop determined that a marriage in their case would NOT be good for their salvation.

In one case, a woman was emotionally disturbed as she had been physically abused in her first two marriages. When she approached the bishop, he refused to grant his blessing for a third marriage.

However, when a divorced man started dating a widow, the bishop was quick to grant him a blessing to marry this lady as he felt that the two would aid each other in their salvation. This marriage was to be the second for both of them. This woman died a few years ago in the odor of sanctify. She had profoundly affected her new husband.

Then there was another man who had just converted to Orthodoxy. He had lived with another woman but had never married her. They separated. Then he had married another woman who had died leaving him a widower. Finally he married a third woman whom he divorced. When he met an Orthodox lady who had never married, he started attending the Divine Liturgy with her and sought to become Orthodox to marry her. The Bishop did not approve of their marriage as he was deemed to have had three marriages.

 

[Bryne]

I am on my third marriage...I guess I had better make this one work. (we are very happily married...so no worries there.)

I don't really count my first marriage, though...it was never a real marriage.

 

[Antony in Tx]

ALL marriages in the Orthodox church have to be approved of by the Bishop, as do Baptisms, Chrismations, Tonsures...

 

[buzuxi02]

Second and third marriages in the Orthodox church also has an different wedding service where penitential prayers are added.

 

[MichaelNZ]

Is the three marriages rule absolute and unbreakable, or are there situations where a Bishop can apply oikonomia and allow a fourth marriage? What if there is a serial killer who, in order to revenge himself on a man, kills his first three wives? Would the Bishop be allowed to apply oikonimia and allow the man to marry again (after the serial killer has been locked away, of course)?

 

[Monica child of God 1]

Is the three marriages rule absolute and unbreakable, or are there situations where a Bishop can apply oikonomia and allow a fourth marriage? What if there is a serial killer who, in order to revenge himself on a man, kills his first three wives? Would the Bishop be allowed to apply oikonimia and allow the man to marry again (after the serial killer has been locked away, of course)?

That is the worst example I have ever read. LOL

M.

 

[MKJ]

Is the three marriages rule absolute and unbreakable, or are there situations where a Bishop can apply oikonomia and allow a fourth marriage? What if there is a serial killer who, in order to revenge himself on a man, kills his first three wives? Would the Bishop be allowed to apply oikonimia and allow the man to marry again (after the serial killer has been locked away, of course)?

Personally, I think I would be hesitant to marry such a person.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Historically, there was an Byzantine emperor (late in history of the Empire, but I cant remember which one) who had married three different women and all three had died but none of them had produced a male heir. He was refused a fourth marriage by the Patriarch of Constantinople. He ended up going to the Pope to get HIS permission. I vaguely remember that although the Pope did give him permission, that emperor was overthrown by one of his rivals immediately afterwards.

So even in the case of a marriage of "necessity", a fourth marriage has been ruled out automatically.

 

[buzuxi02]

Is the three marriages rule absolute and unbreakable, or are there situations where a Bishop can apply oikonomia and allow a fourth marriage? What if there is a serial killer who, in order to revenge himself on a man, kills his first three wives? Would the Bishop be allowed to apply oikonimia and allow the man to marry again (after the serial killer has been locked away, of course)?

NO. Originally in the early church a second and third remarriage was only tolerated for widows, death of a spouse is the original reason for tolerating up to a third marriage. In the early church a person divorced could not remarry at all as long as the former spouse was alive because reconciliation was always possible.

 

[MichaelNZ]

What would happen if a man who was in his fourth marriage decided to convert to Orthodoxy? Would he be told to stop living with wife number four and try and be reconciled to wife number three?

 

[cobweb]

What would happen if a man who was in his fourth marriage decided to convert to Orthodoxy? Would he be told to stop living with wife number four and try and be reconciled to wife number three?

I don't know.

I do know that I was told by an Indonesian priest that when men with more than one wife convert from Islam over there they are required to decide which wife to keep. They still are financially responsible for the other wife and children, but no longer are allowed conjugal relations with anyone other that that one wife.

 

[Monica child of God 1]

What would happen if a man who was in his fourth marriage decided to convert to Orthodoxy? Would he be told to stop living with wife number four and try and be reconciled to wife number three?

No. A person can't act as if the fourth marriage never happened. We don't have annulments. If the fourth wedding ceremony has taken place, the marriage has been consummated and the household has been established, it would be wrong to leave that wife. The husband would be defrauding her.

"It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control your own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the pagans, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong or take advantage of a brother or sister." --1 Thessalonians 4:3-5

M.

 

[Knee V]

What a person has done before conversion wouldn't be held against him at conversion. If a man was on his 4th marriage when he converted, he would be considered "married", with no strings attached. If his wife converted as well, then they would have their marriage blessed and that would be their only marriage that the Church would be concerned with.

St Augustine had at least one illegitimate child before his conversion, and he was still made a bishop, even though, to be ordained, he's supposed to be a virgin. But that only applies post-conversion. Otherwise almost no one would be able to be ordained.