Fellowship Distinctions in scripture associated with being born again and being filled with The Holy Spirit (Read the rule-set before you post)

[ARBITER01]

First the ruleset for a fellowship tag,...

Use this tag for any thread where you just want to share chit chat or discuss a topic with other like-minded members. There should be No debate at all, it is strictly fellowship in nature. The OP of these threads can report their own thread if it crosses the line into debate and staff will assist in a thread clean up (please see above for a definition of debate).

I've had this topic in one form or another keep coming up to me on here over the past year or more, so I feel The Holy Spirit wanting me to dig into it a bit and provide some food for thought on the nuances found in scripture associated with it. It will take me a bit to collect my thoughts on it and how I wish to approach the subject, but I will over time. It will involve experiences associated with scripture. It won't be some fruitless academic endeavor.

Again this is not a debate thread. You don't like the direction I'm taking on the subject, make your own thread. Don't clutter up mine with your disagreements.

 

[ARBITER01]

Ok, here's is part of the contention associated with this thread,.....

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit were we all immersed into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit.

Act 1:5 because John, indeed, immersed in water, but ye shall be immersed in the Holy Spirit, not many days hence."

These scripture quotes are taken from the earlier critical text type translations, not the later texts. The reason being is that they are more correct. We are "immersed" into/in something, not with something. The later texts and their translations appear to have doctrinal differences that confuse.

Now to the point,....

If we are "immersed" into one body (the body of Christ) by The Holy Spirit, then the immersion that Jesus proclaimed over in Acts 1:5 was a born again immersion, a regeneration of our human spirit from it's fallen state into a newness of life by His blood applied by The Holy Spirit during that Spiritual immersion.

 

[NBB]

I think there is this good example of people who believed in Jesus etc, but weren't filled with the Holy spirit.
When the apostles asked those people 'did you receive the Holy spirit when you believed?'
In the bible some waited some were imposed hands, you don't neccesarily get filled at believing like some say.
And this is so important, you could forget all theology / advice etc, but just believing correctly in Jesus and being filled with the Holy spirit could put you 'ahead' lets say closer to God of many theologians / pastors etc.
For me is the meaning of life to have him like that, he is going to take you somewhere.
I am actually seeking myself to be filled again.

 

[ARBITER01]

I think there is this good example of people who believed in Jesus etc, but weren't filled with the Holy spirit.
When the apostles asked those people 'did you receive the Holy spirit when you believed?'
In the bible some waited some were imposed hands, you don't neccesarily get filled at believing like some say.
And this is so important, you could forget all theology / advice etc, but just believing correctly in Jesus and being filled with the Holy spirit could put you 'ahead' lets say closer to God of many theologians / pastors etc.
For me is the meaning of life to have him like that, he is going to take you somewhere.
I am actually seeking myself to be filled again.

I do plan on revisiting the spirit of Christ and The Holy Spirit differences in this thread some time here. I decided to make this a fellowship thread so I can get rid of the riff raff that occurred in the discussion thread I opened up a few months back.

What I'm looking at currently is the identification of our born again experience, being that it is an immersion into The Holy Spirit. That immersion adds us to the body of Christ, not some sort of change of mind.

 

[ARBITER01]

Let me repost a section of scripture and continue on,....

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit were we all immersed into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit.

When did this Spiritual immersion begin?

At Acts 2, not beforehand.

John the Baptist, of all people, who was filled with The Holy Spirit from the womb,....... still greatly desired this immersion from Jesus,....

Mat 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to the Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
Mat 3:14 But John would have hindered him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
Mat 3:15 But Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it now: for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he suffereth him.

So we see that no matter what anyone of the Old Saints had from GOD prior to Acts 2, everyone had to be immersed into The Holy Spirit by Jesus to be under the new covenant. It was the only way the blood of Jesus was applied.

 

[ARBITER01]

Again, let me re-post the appropriate scripture section,...

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit were we all immersed into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit.

We see Jesus declare the required born again experience to Nicodemus,...

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of GOD.
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water, even The Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of GOD.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit.

This is the 1881 Revised Version scripture section, and I took some liberties with capitalization and an upgrade with part of the passage in verse 3:5 I underlined. We see Jesus still using some symbolism since He was still under the OC, but He does point the way towards the NC that was going to be in His blood.

Until Jesus took that precious blood of His up into heaven and offered it upon the heavenly things of GOD, and then was seated to the right of The Father and granted The Holy Spirit to pour out upon the earth, the NC had not started.

The OC was still in force until these things happened up in heaven after the cross.

Everything that was done by John the baptist and even Jesus Himself before that was under the OC, was a shadow and shade of the truth that was going to be once Jesus was glorified up in heaven.

 

[ARBITER01]

Let's take a look at that last verse I posted,....

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit.

Ok, when does this happen to a believer?

When is a person born of The Holy Spirit?

I submit it is when that person is immersed into Him, where the blood of Jesus is applied by The Holy Spirit to their fallen spirit and they are renewed.

We are adopted into the kingdom of GOD by blood. We receive the kingdom of GOD inside by blood.

 

[ARBITER01]

Now we come to another contention associated with this thread,.... when was The Holy Spirit given.

Let's set the stage,....


Joh 7:37 Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink.
Joh 7:38 He that believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his belly will flow rivers of living water."
Joh 7:39 (But this He spoke concerning The Spirit, whom those believing in Him were about to receive; for The Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.)


Notice the different colored sections that are highlighted. They believed in Jesus, but were not given The Holy Spirit yet.

The stipulation here was that Jesus needed to be glorified first for them to receive The Holy Spirit. What does this mean? Well I personally like the Cambridge Greek Testament for schools and colleges commentary on this,....

ὅτι … ἐδοξάσθη. Comp. Joh 16:7, Joh 17:1; Joh 17:5; Psa 68:18.

The Spirit, “though given in His fullness to Christ Himself (Joh 3:34), and operating through Him in His people (Joh 6:63), was not, until after Christ’s return to glory, to be given to the faithful as the Paraclete and representative of Christ for the carrying on of His work” (Meyer). Christ did not send the Paraclete until He Himself had resumed the fullness of Divinity; and the Spirit did not give Christ to be the life of the Church until Christ was perfected.


Well, is this true? Did Jesus have to go away unto The Father first before they could have The Holy Spirit? I believe John 16:7 tells the story,....


Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I go, I will send him unto you.


I think it is quite obvious that the disciples, though believing, had not received The Holy Spirit until after Jesus had ascended to heaven and was glorified there.