Dissecting "Gloria in exelsis Deo"

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

In church it's chanted like below;

Glory to God in the highest,
and on earth peace to people of good will.

In Scripture it's written down as below;
(FYI this is not RSV exclusive, most bibles corresponds in this verse)

Luke 2:14 Revised Standard Version
14 “Glory to God in the highest,
and on earth peace among men with whom he is pleased!”

In Latin;
Gloria in excelsis Deo. Et in terra pax hominibus bonae voluntatis.

In English;
Glory to God in the highest,
and on earth peace to people of good will.


Question is; is this an acceptable translation of the original Latin used or is it an altered version preverted by the process of turning from TLM to Novus Ordo during Vatican ii?

Also if this has indeed been used in the TLM era of the church then why is it so?
When it doesn't corresponds to what's written in scripture I find it very strange to be honest.
It comes of as a way liberalism of the content in the gospel of Luke so to include Muslims and pagans of different flavours who worship false God's. It can be seen as a part of Viis agenda at first sight.

Why leave the Gospel text?
Also the scriptural version makes much more sense theologically as it's very coherent with the offerings theology in the Old Testament.

I hope some have answers regarding this oddity.
@Davidnic , I tagged you as you're a Catholic theologian and all.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

Luke 2:14 New International Version (NIV)
14 “Glory to God in the highest heaven,
and on earth peace to those on whom his favor rests.”

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

Sorry for this dialectic thread of mine, but it seems i sorted this one out myself.
It seems as if Hieronomus translation of Vulgata was the basis of the Gloria in the Latin mass and that the Vatican only translated it directly from TLM to Novus Ordo.

One could argue it should change as we now know better, but that's a whole different discussion.
There are valid reasons to officially change from Vulgata to newer ones such as RSV.

 

[Paidiske]

You've really got to look at the Greek of the NT, which is the original.

The relevant clause says: καὶ ἐπὶ γῆς εἰρήνη ἐν ἀνθρώποις εὐδοκίας

I think you've studied Greek, haven't you, AtG? The key word here is εὐδοκίας. The root form is εὐδοκία, and it has three main fields of meaning.

1. The state or condition of being kindly disposed; being of good will.
2. The state or condition of being favoured.
3. Desire or wish.

Clearly here it is not certain whether Luke meant something closer to 1. or 2. above, so each translation has attempted to bring that into English as best they could.

 

[Mark_Sam]

The Latin is quite clear and literal - "men of good will". But I've been told that the Greek (eudokias) is a more ambiguous: is it men who have a good will, or is it men of God's good will (i.e. men with whom God is pleased)? The Latin reflects one interpretation, but today, the other one seems to be the most popular.

When it comes to liturgical translation, it should reflect the Latin, but I guess the translation of Bible texts can be informed by the Greek and Hebrew. Leaving the Vatican II comments aside, this particular change seems more to be the result of Biblical scholarship than anything else.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

You've really got to look at the Greek of the NT, which is the original.

The relevant clause says: καὶ ἐπὶ γῆς εἰρήνη ἐν ἀνθρώποις εὐδοκίας

I think you've studied Greek, haven't you, AtG? The key word here is εὐδοκίας. The root form is εὐδοκία, and it has three main fields of meaning.

1. The state or condition of being kindly disposed; being of good will.
2. The state or condition of being favoured.
3. Desire or wish.

Clearly here it is not certain whether Luke meant something closer to 1. or 2. above, so each translation has attempted to bring that into English as best they could.

Thank you for input.
I think if one aims at making sense to ordinary Joe it's preferable to use the version as we do in Gloria, but if one desires to make the NT coherent with the OT may I suggest it's better to adhere to nr2.

My Greek is not good believe me
I passed barely and it's some time ago.

 

[Paidiske]

I think in terms of what it means - now this is just an opinion - it's neither "people of good will," nor "men with whom he is pleased," but more, "men, on whom his favour rests."

Ie. The incarnation heralded by the angels here is the action in which God brings his favour to rest on fallen humankind, which has no hope without Him.

So it's not marking out one group from another but showing the greatness of God's grace to all of us.

 

[Davidnic]

It also ties into the concept of good. When a will is good it is searching for God and God's will.

So the translation is in keeping with ancient intent.

Like let's look at it as God gives His grace to all people. We must cooperate with that Grace and turn our wills to Him. We are favored by His grace, and our wills are turned toward good and seeking Him.

So the translation works in both ways, and neither contradicts the other.

Much like highly favored and full of grace in the Annunciation. There are deep linguistic roots to Grace, favor, good and those related concepts.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Sorry for this dialectic thread of mine, but it seems i sorted this one out myself.
It seems as if Hieronomus translation of Vulgata was the basis of the Gloria in the Latin mass and that the Vatican only translated it directly from TLM to Novus Ordo.

One could argue it should change as we now know better, but that's a whole different discussion.
There are valid reasons to officially change from Vulgata to newer ones such as RSV.

Please read Chapter 18. Of the book "Windows into the Bible."

The 2 blessing. Reading. "Glory to God in the highest and peace on Earth amongst those. Whom God favors". Is based on an analogy to the Dead Sea Scrolls

The Dead Sea Scrolls community believed in a dualistic cosmology. Of war between the sons of light and Sons of darkness. The Dead Sea Scrolls Community believed that God favored the sons of light. And he did the sons of darkness. They themselves. Taught. That, they should love their fellow community members, but hate their enemies.

Jesus flat out reputed the Dead Sea Scrolls Community believes. Jesus himself said "you have heard it said that you should love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I say love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you."

Moreover, the more traditional threefold hymn "glory to God in the highest and on Earth peace and Goodwill amongst men." Alludes to Isaiah 6:3.

The modern variant. Is only supported by an analogy outside of the scriptural Canon? To a dualistic and violent sect. Of Non Christians.

The modern reading tries to limit the scope of God's Mercy and goodwill. To only a small select group. That flies full in the face of Jesus is teaching. That God, "Brings the sun and the rain on the just, and unjust" alike.

The traditional 3 fold blessing is by far the more supported biblically both from the Old Testament allusion to Isaiah 6 verse 3 as well as to Jesuses own sayings in the New Testament. The modern variant is spurious. And has the affect of trying to turn Christians in 2 or more into the violent Dualistic Dead Sea Scrolls community.