Difference in belief

[shinoobi]

Hi Guys, I need some advice.

I am a Christian and I have seen some people differ in their belief as to exactly what Christians believe. My belief is that your salvation/ever lasting life is obtained through your faith in what Jesus did for us on the cross. That you are saved by faith and faith alone.

Now my problem is that I am in a relationship with a woman for a year and a half. She is Old Apostolic, the religion basically originated in South Africa.

They use the Bible, but they interpret it spiritually. They also go to church 6 days a week including twice on Sunday's. They are very faithful and their religion is held very high.

They also believe that you basically work through faith for your salvation and that is a fundamental difference. The other big difference is that they believe that Jesus was only an example that God sent us to show how to live, he had the gift of Christ in him and we must all strive to live like he did. When Jesus died he rose in the mind of people, so that Christ gift rose and not the physical body of Christ. So that being said they do not believe that Jesus will come again because he already came. They also believe that the Church is the body of Christ and thus when they refer to Jesus/the Son then they refer to the Church.

Before I met her I was single for a long time and asked Jesus to send me a faithful girl to spend my life with. I received exactly what i asked for, well exempt that her belief differs from mine.

I am not sure why it turned out like this and what to do. Why did God put me in this situation?

I have to basically change to their religion if i ever want to marry her btw.

Also they believe in Visions and Dreams and that is the way God speaks to us, the scary thing is that some of the dreams they spoke about actually happens exactly how it was seen. This is the only thing that makes me confused, because why will they get visions and dreams that is exactly to the point of how it was given. God warns them through visions and dreams, it actually makes one think.

 

[Dave-W]

. The other big difference is that they believe that Jesus was only an example that God sent us to show how to live, he had the gift of Christ in him and we must all strive to live like he did. When Jesus died he rose in the mind of people, so that Christ gift rose and not the physical body of Christ.

That is a false religion and not true Christianity. I would stay FAR away from it.

I am not sure why it turned out like this and what to do. Why did God put me in this situation?

God did not put you in that situation. It is a result of living in a fallen world.

I have to basically change to their religion if i ever want to marry her btw.

IMO it would be a HUGE mistake. It would involve DENYING the divinity of Christ.

 

[RaymondG]

Hi Guys, I need some advice.

I am a Christian and I have seen some people differ in their belief as to exactly what Christians believe. My belief is that your salvation/ever lasting life is obtained through your faith in what Jesus did for us on the cross. That you are saved by faith and faith alone.

Now my problem is that I am in a relationship with a woman for a year and a half. She is Old Apostolic, the religion basically originated in South Africa.

They use the Bible, but they interpret it spiritually. They also go to church 6 days a week including twice on Sunday's. They are very faithful and their religion is held very high.

They also believe that you basically work through faith for your salvation and that is a fundamental difference. The other big difference is that they believe that Jesus was only an example that God sent us to show how to live, he had the gift of Christ in him and we must all strive to live like he did. When Jesus died he rose in the mind of people, so that Christ gift rose and not the physical body of Christ. So that being said they do not believe that Jesus will come again because he already came. They also believe that the Church is the body of Christ and thus when they refer to Jesus/the Son then they refer to the Church.

Before I met her I was single for a long time and asked Jesus to send me a faithful girl to spend my life with. I received exactly what i asked for, well exempt that her belief differs from mine.

I am not sure why it turned out like this and what to do. Why did God put me in this situation?

I have to basically change to their religion if i ever want to marry her btw.

Also they believe in Visions and Dreams and that is the way God speaks to us, the scary thing is that some of the dreams they spoke about actually happens exactly how it was seen. This is the only thing that makes me confused, because why will they get visions and dreams that is exactly to the point of how it was given. God warns them through visions and dreams, it actually makes one think.

Why do you feel that what they believe is wrong and what you believe is right?

 

[RaymondG]

That is a false religion and not true Christianity. I would stay FAR away from it.

God did not put you in that situation. It is a result of living in a fallen world.

IMO it would be a HUGE mistake. It would involve DENYING the divinity of Christ.

Which parts can you prove are, without a doubt, False? And how can you say for sure What God put and didnt Put in his life? Did you pray to God and get an answer before you wrote that statement? Are you saying that God only put us in easy, good situations, and never hard trying ones?

And in what way would He have to deny the divinity of Christ if He went to their religion?

P.s. If you are advocating blindly believing someones statement of beliefs without questioning, you are basically saying that he should have just gone with this other religion without bothering to come here and test it.

 

[shinoobi]

I am a Christian and my faith is based on a certain foundation, I do not know who is right and who is wrong, but faith is a believe in something hoped for.

The reason I believe I am "right" or more "right" is that in my opinion once you start allowing interpretation to the Bible, where does it start and end? Without the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ then Christianity falls flat. If you say no, let us interpret it spiritually, who in the end has the correct interpretation and who gives any authority to interpret it that way.

That being said, they received visions and dreams, are they of God? I do not know for sure. I have a belief and yes it might sound like I think they are wrong and I am right, but I also cannot deny they do receive something from someone.

My post asking for advice and yes like you might see, I am a bit confused

 

[Dave-W]

Which parts can you prove are, without a doubt, False?

THIS:

they believe that Jesus was only an example that God sent us to show how to live, he had the gift of Christ in him and we must all strive to live like he did.

It says in effect that Jesus was NOT God incarnate.

And this:

When Jesus died he rose in the mind of people, so that Christ gift rose and not the physical body of Christ.

It denies the physical resurrection of our Lord.

That is a false Messiah and a false gospel.

Gal 1.8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse!

 

[RaymondG]

Without the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ then Christianity falls flat.

It denies the physical resurrection of our Lord.

So are you two saying that Flesh and blood does and can, in fact, inherit the kingdom of heaven? When Jesus states this was he only talking about our bodies and not His? When he say, no one goes to heaven save He who left it.......was He saying that he had a Physical, flesh and blood body in heaven which came down and then went back?

 

[RaymondG]

I am a Christian and my faith is based on a certain foundation, I do not know who is right and who is wrong, but faith is a believe in something hoped for.

The reason I believe I am "right" or more "right" is that in my opinion once you start allowing interpretation to the Bible, where does it start and end? Without the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ then Christianity falls flat. If you say no, let us interpret it spiritually, who in the end has the correct interpretation and who gives any authority to interpret it that way.

That being said, they received visions and dreams, are they of God? I do not know for sure. I have a belief and yes it might sound like I think they are wrong and I am right, but I also cannot deny they do receive something from someone.

My post asking for advice and yes like you might see, I am a bit confused

You are right to test and try everything. Receive opinions from man......but trust the report of the Lord. If any man lack wisdom, let him ask of God. And be careful to not just dismiss everything that is different with what you have been taught and only believe.......This is what the pharisees did.....and they missed out on something kind of important because of it.

 

[shinoobi]

So are you two saying that Flesh and blood does and can, in fact, inherit the kingdom of heaven? When Jesus states this was he only talking about our bodies and not His? When he say, no one goes to heaven save He who left it.......was He saying that he had a Physical, flesh and blood body in heaven which came down and then went back?

Not sure how this became a denomination/doctrine discussion? I am new to this thread, but in my defense I assumed that posting in Christian advice, the term Christian referred to those who believe in the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ. I did not know the term Christian has so many differences in belief?

So on these forums there is not a set principle of Christians then?

 

[Dave-W]

was He saying that he had a Physical, flesh and blood body in heaven which came down and then went back?

God said "Let Us make man in Our Image..."

What image was that exactly? The image of Jesus.

Did not HE have a body when He visited Abraham in Genesis 18? OR Joshua in Josh 5?

Remember, heaven exists outside our time stream. A million years in our past and a million years in our future are both simultaneous there.

 

[shinoobi]

You are right to test and try everything. Receive opinions from man......but trust the report of the Lord. If any man lack wisdom, let him ask of God. And be careful to not just dismiss everything that is different with what you have been taught and only believe.......This is what the pharisees did.....and they missed out on something kind of important because of it.

So are you saying my belief that faith is the only way to salvation is incorrect and I must first find the correct way (that might be theirs) and then I can try and deal with my situation?

 

[Evangelist Paul Dodson]

The reason people say the Bible is not to be taken literally is because they don't want to take the Bible at all. They want a form of godliness, (reading the bible), but they want to do things their own way.

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

God's Word was given to us so that we can know God, know sin, and know our need for Him. In it we have History, although it's not written as a history book. We also find science in it, but it is not a science book. We find biology, genealogy, and even prophesy, but it is not a book about these areas. God's Word includes all these things so that we can know, understand and accept God's salvation through Jesus Christ. This is a matter of eternal consequences. God wrote what He meant, and meant what He wrote. It is to be taken literal except in certain cases where the writer gave us an example of what he was trying to write because they didn't have a word for what he was writing. However, the bible will always tell you when this is happening. You will see phrases like, "like unto", "as it were" and so on. The context will always tell you when this is happening. In all other cases what you read is to be taken literal.

In regards to salvation, again, what does the bible save.


Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Tit_3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;


Works is a result of salvation, not the cause of it.

I hope this helps

Evangelist Paul Dodson
www.theclearword.org

 

[Albion]

Not sure how this became a denomination/doctrine discussion? I am new to this thread, but in my defense I assumed that posting in Christian advice, the term Christian referred to those who believe in the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ. I did not know the term Christian has so many differences in belief?

So on these forums there is not a set principle of Christians then?

You are right about that, my friend.

And there are indeed limits to the variances between the branches of the Christian religion. According to the rules of Christian Forums and the Christian Advice section, the Nicene Creed (perhaps the most widely accepted statement of belief among Christians) governs what counts as Christian and what does not. The religion that your woman friend belongs to would be outside of that definition, and if the demand would be that you not only tolerate her beliefs but that you must join, too...well, it is hard to see how that could work.

 

[RaymondG]

Not sure how this became a denomination/doctrine discussion? I am new to this thread, but in my defense I assumed that posting in Christian advice, the term Christian referred to those who believe in the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ. I did not know the term Christian has so many differences in belief?

So on these forums there is not a set principle of Christians then?

No, you are right. I thought you were looking for Truth. But you only want support for your own beliefs. You are in the right place. Im in the wrong. continue as you were.

 

[RaymondG]

The reason people say the Bible is not to be taken literally is because they don't want to take the Bible at all. They want a form of godliness, (reading the bible), but they want to do things their own way.

Does this apply to the people are say some parts of the bible were done away with? Some say that they dont have to follow some of the commands in the OT because it was done away with. Do you believe this? or do you feel that the whole bible should be taken literally (as opposed to being spiritually discerned)

 

[RaymondG]

So are you saying my belief that faith is the only way to salvation is incorrect and I must first find the correct way (that might be theirs) and then I can try and deal with my situation?

I believe that faith contains substances and evidence.....and it is not blind. A mustard seed knows without doubt that it will become a big mustard seed tree and there are no other options. But I encourage you to hold fast to what you believe and ignore anything Ive said.

 

[shinoobi]

Does this apply to the people are say some parts of the bible were done away with? Some say that they dont have to follow some of the commands in the OT because it was done away with. Do you believe this? or do you feel that the whole bible should be taken literally (as opposed to being spiritually discerned)

Do you hold the belief that the Bible should be taken spiritually? If so who makes the rules for interpretation? Who's interpretation is correct?

Parables and metaphors are identifiable, but spiritual interpretation I don't think is. I would love for you to give me an example of why something is interpreted spiritually and why.

 

[shinoobi]

I believe that faith contains substances and evidence.....and it is not blind. A mustard seed knows without doubt that it will become a big mustard seed tree and there are no other options. But I encourage you to hold fast to what you believe and ignore anything Ive said.

You haven't really said anything :/

 

[RaymondG]

God said "Let Us make man in Our Image..."

What image was that exactly? The image of Jesus.

Did not HE have a body when He visited Abraham in Genesis 18? OR Joshua in Josh 5?

Remember, heaven exists outside our time stream. A million years in our past and a million years in our future are both simultaneous there.

This is true....and After he made us in His image, He made Mankind from the dust and put us in it.

The same Jesus that was in the NT is only assumed to be the Same in The OT.....this could be right or not...it also could have been an Angel of the Lord as well. Whether it was or not, doesnt shake my faith in God.....neither does arguments about physical vs. spiritual resurrections (I honestly dont understand how one way could mean everything but the other less, or nothing)

I agree with your notion of time....Today is the only day of Salvation.

 

[shinoobi]

This is true....and After he made us in His image, He made Mankind from the dust and put us in it.

The same Jesus that was in the NT is only assumed to be the Same in The OT.....this could be right or not...it also could have been an Angel of the Lord as well. Whether it was or not, doesnt shake my faith in God.....neither does arguments about physical vs. spiritual resurrections (I honestly dont understand how one way could mean everything but the other less, or nothing)

I agree with your notion of time....Today is the only day of Salvation.

The physical resurrection is the most important event in history. It provides evidence that Jesus is who he claimed to be, it provides evidence that God really did send the man called Jesus and that is was not just a story or made up. It also authenticates Christ claims that he would be raised on the third day, John 2:19-21, Mark 8:31, 9:31, 10:34.

Also what Paul's said, if Christ body was not resurrected we have no hope, 1 Corinthians 15:13, 16.

The Jews did not want to accept Jesus as the Messiah, the resurrection as a physical one proves to the Jews that He is in fact the Messiah. Without the physical resurrection you can say that Jesus was someone who claimed to be something He was not, then people wrote about this man. He would then just be regarded as a prophet, I do believe another religion actually does state Jesus was just a prophet.

Let us also look at it this way, if you take it on facts as written, why will you believe in God? Because Jesus rose from the dead perhaps?