Did Jesus die on the day they killed the paschal lamb?

[tonychanyt]

I don't think so.

John 19:

14 Now it was the day of Preparation of the Passover. It was about the sixth hour. He [Pilate] said to the Jews, “Behold your King!”

the day of Preparation
Παρασκευὴ (Paraskeuē)
Noun - Nominative Feminine Singular
Strong's 3904: The day of preparation, the day before the Sabbath, Friday. As if from paraskeuazo; readiness.

That was a Friday before the Sabbath during the multi-day Passover Festival, not the day they killed the paschal lamb.

A later verse confirmed this:

31 Since it was the day of Preparation, and so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken and that they might be taken away.

Gill:

for that sabbath day was an high day; it was not only a sabbath, and a sabbath in the passover week.

BDAG σάββατον:

① the seventh day of the week in Israel’s calendar, marked by rest fr. work and by special religious ceremonies, sabbath

ⓐ sing.

σάββατον μέγα Great Sabbath MPol 8:1; 21:1; cp. J 19:31b

BDAG classified this high Sabbath day as a weekly Saturday.

The Jews wanted to finish the work before the Sabbath.

41 Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden, and in the garden a new tomb in which no one had yet been laid. 42 So because of the Jewish day of Preparation, since the tomb was close at hand, they laid Jesus there.

Did Jesus die on the day they killed the paschal lamb?

No, he ate the Paschal lamb in the Last Supper. He died the next day, Friday.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I don't think so.

John 19:


the day of Preparation
Παρασκευὴ (Paraskeuē)
Noun - Nominative Feminine Singular
Strong's 3904: The day of preparation, the day before the Sabbath, Friday. As if from paraskeuazo; readiness.

That was a Friday before the Sabbath during the multi-day Passover Festival, not the day they killed the paschal lamb.

A later verse confirmed this:

Gill:

BDAG σάββατον:

BDAG classified this high Sabbath day as a weekly Saturday.

The Jews wanted to finish the work before the Sabbath.

Did Jesus die on the day they killed the paschal lamb?

No, he ate the Paschal lamb in the Last Supper. He died the next day, Friday.

And you would be wrong. The lambs were killed on the 14th. Friday that year was the 14th. Also, IF there was lamb at the table (no mention of it at all), why would Yeshua not say "This lamb is my body"? He used bread. He was buried before sunset on the 14th. Lots of holes in your scenario...

 

[cradleGO]

Jesus died from the beating - blood loss, and related issues, not asphyxiation which is the typical cause of death by crucifixion. So, in that sense, He died like the paschal lamb under Jewish slaughter rules.

As an aside, I think - no evidence - that the scourging detail was bribed by the Temple authorities to really whip Jesus. Recall that Pilate had intended to present the scourged Jesus to the masses with the expectation that His beating would be enough. That is, Pilate had no intent to kill Jesus.

 

[tonychanyt]

Pilate had no intent to kill Jesus.

Right. See Why did Pilate scourge Jesus even though he knew Jesus was innocent?

 

[AFrazier]

And you would be wrong. The lambs were killed on the 14th. Friday that year was the 14th. Also, IF there was lamb at the table (no mention of it at all), why would Yeshua not say "This lamb is my body"? He used bread. He was buried before sunset on the 14th. Lots of holes in your scenario...

No need to mention “lamb” at the table when they already stated that Peter and John “made ready the passover,” which is a lamb or goat.

The lambs were, in fact killed on the 14th. But Jesus wasn’t. The gospels are clear that he was arrested the night following the lambs being killed, and then crucified the next morning.

He didn’t say, “This lamb is my body,” because he’s the “bread” of life, and he encouraged others in a much earlier passage to eat his body with the same symbolism.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

No need to mention “lamb” at the table when they already stated that Peter and John “made ready the passover,” which is a lamb or goat.

The lambs were, in fact killed on the 14th. But Jesus wasn’t. The gospels are clear that he was arrested the night following the lambs being killed, and then crucified the next morning.

He didn’t say, “This lamb is my body,” because he’s the “bread” of life, and he encouraged others in a much earlier passage to eat his body with the same symbolism.

that was impossible for many reasons as I have explained to you numerous times before. You were wrong then and you are wrong now.

 

[AFrazier]

that was impossible for many reasons as I have explained to you numerous times before. You were wrong then and you are wrong now.

Whatever you say, bro. Just keep on ignoring and denying the scriptures.

I tell you what . . . Let's play a game. I'll post the scriptures, and you explain how they don't say that Jesus ate the passover on the 14th (and was therefore crucified on the 15th since he was crucified the next morning).

Mark 14:12-18 — And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover? And he sendeth forth two of his disciples, and saith unto them, Go ye into the city, and there shall meet you a man bearing a pitcher of water: follow him. And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples? And he will shew you a large upper room furnished and prepared: there make ready for us. And his disciples went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover. And in the evening he cometh with the twelve. And as they sat and did eat, Jesus said, Verily I say unto you, One of you which eateth with me shall betray me.

Luke 22:7-16 — Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed. And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat. And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare? And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in. And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples? And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready. And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover. And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him. And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand GO!

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Whatever you say, bro. Just keep on ignoring and denying the scriptures.

I tell you what . . . Let's play a game. I'll post the scriptures, and you explain how they don't say that Jesus ate the passover on the 14th (and was therefore crucified on the 15th since he was crucified the next morning).

Mark 14:12-18 — And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover? And he sendeth forth two of his disciples, and saith unto them, Go ye into the city, and there shall meet you a man bearing a pitcher of water: follow him. And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples? And he will shew you a large upper room furnished and prepared: there make ready for us. And his disciples went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover. And in the evening he cometh with the twelve. And as they sat and did eat, Jesus said, Verily I say unto you, One of you which eateth with me shall betray me.

Luke 22:7-16 — Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed. And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat. And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare? And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in. And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples? And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready. And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover. And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him. And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand GO!

You are the only one denying scripture. You are a broken record. We have been through all of this before and I proved you wrong. You conveniently skip anything by John. The passover lamb was killed on the 14th, not on the 1st of Chag HaMatzot (the 15th). So either scripture is wrong or you are. I pick YOU. Do you have no idea what the 15th was? Oy vey!

 

[cradleGO]

John 19:14 states that Jesus died on the Day of Preparation. Per the following, this was a Friday. The institution of the Eucharist was the previous day, so leavened bread would have been used, and Strong's confirms that the Greek word used is "artos" - leavened, common bread.

When Jesus died, according to historical experts

There is significant historical evidence that Jesus did live and was crucified - what is more contentious is when it actually happened

inews.co.uk

" Most modern scholars side with John, as his account of events is more internally consistent. “Thus, by a significant modern consensus, the date of Jesus’ death was 14th Nisan...." "

Per this Jewish source, the lambs were slaughtered on Nisan 14, the Day of Preparation. So, Jesus was slaughtered - died of blood loss - like the paschal lamb.

https://www.chabad.org/holidays/passover/pesach_cdo/aid/3283921/jewish/Why-Is-Passover-on-Nissan-15-Not-Nissan-14.htm

"Rather, it is the Passover offering, which was slaughtered on the 14th and eaten that night—the 15th—together with matzah at the onset of the Festival of Matzahs." (Reminder, days start at sundown in Judaism and liturgical Orthodoxy.) Festival of Matzahs - "Oddly, although the weeklong celebration is consistently called the Festival of Matzahs in the Torah, it has come to be known as Pesach, or Passover, in common parlance and even in our liturgy."

The above is the basis of the Orthodox using leavened bread in the Eucharist, and it links Jesus to the Paschal Lamb of his heritage.

 

[tonychanyt]

Per this Jewish source, the lambs were slaughtered on Nisan 14, the Day of Preparation. So, Jesus was slaughtered - died of blood loss - like the paschal lamb.

Thanks for sharing.

So, did Jesus die on the day the paschal lambs were slaughtered?

 

[AFrazier]

You are the only one denying scripture. You are a broken record. We have been through all of this before and I proved you wrong. You conveniently skip anything by John. The passover lamb was killed on the 14th, not on the 1st of Chag HaMatzot (the 15th). So either scripture is wrong or you are. I pick YOU. Do you have no idea what the 15th was? Oy vey!

I presented you with the scripture. I’m right. You’re wrong. And as always, you avoided answering to what the scripture says.

John means something else. With all your Hebrew pretentiousness, I would expect you to know that there is a passover of the 15th. Hagigah.

Even if John didn’t mean something different, the testimony of two witnesses is true. We have three to one saying he ate the Passover. The Synoptics are the greater witness.

You really should study your scripture better.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Thanks for sharing.

So, did Jesus die on the day the paschal lambs were slaughtered?

Yes

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I presented you with the scripture. I’m right. You’re wrong. And as always, you avoided answering to what the scripture says.

John means something else. With all your Hebrew pretentiousness, I would expect you to know that there is a passover of the 15th. Hagigah.

Even if John didn’t mean something different, the testimony of two witnesses is true. We have three to one saying he ate the Passover. The Synoptics are the greater witness.

You really should study your scripture better.

No, you are wrong as I have proven to you before. Your interpretations are wrong, not scripture. Hebrew pretentiousness? LOL! I have shown you were wrong regarding Hagigah too. Ah yes, the 2 witnesses? Yes they prove you wrong too...on the road to Emmaus. I know scripture VERY well, it is YOUR incorrect interpretations I disagree with. Shabbat Shalom...

 

[AFrazier]

No, you are wrong as I have proven to you before. Your interpretations are wrong, not scripture. Hebrew pretentiousness? LOL! I have shown you were wrong regarding Hagigah too. Ah yes, the 2 witnesses? Yes they prove you wrong too...on the road to Emmaus. I know scripture VERY well, it is YOUR incorrect interpretations I disagree with. Shabbat Shalom...

You’re wrong. That’s all. The only thing you’ve ever proven is that you’re unwilling to accept blatant scripture. And you still haven’t answered to them. You avoid it because you’re wrong and you know it. Mark and Luke have no alternate interpretation. If they do, prove it.

 

[Ace777]

I don't think so.

In Judaism, a lamb was sacrificed on the afternoon of the 14th of Nisan, the eve of Passover, in the courtyard of the Temple in Jerusalem. The lamb was the Paschal lamb, a symbol of the first Passover, when the Jews marked their doorposts with its blood to avoid destruction during the tenth plague of Egypt. According to Exodus 12, the lamb had to be a male without blemish and in its prime, representing the Lamb of God who was sacrificed for the sins of the world.

 

[cradleGO]

Thanks for sharing.

So, did Jesus die on the day the paschal lambs were slaughtered?

Yes, if you accept John's account - John 19:14. Jesus died on Nisan 14, the Day of Preparation, which is when the lambs were slaughtered for consumption on the Passover.

But more than that, Jesus died in the same manner that the Paschal Lamb was killed: blood loss and its associated effects. I say this as I believe that He died by the effects of the scourging, and not by crucifixion (not by asphyxiation). I base this on the Gospels account, but also medical opinions of those physicians who have studied the Shroud of Turin.

The only "ritual" significance of the Crucifixion is the piercing by the Roman soldier. That didn't kill Jesus, best we can tell, just like the cut(s) by the Temple priest doesn't directly kill the Lamb, but the piercing completes the conformance to the ritual slaughter that the Jews used for the Paschal Lamb.

Jesus was viciously beaten in the scourging. It accounts for things that doubters use to discount the Shroud, such as the red seen on the blood stains (bilirubin due to trauma), and water and blood coming from the pierced wound. God gives us many reasons to not believe, but also the means to see the Truth.

 

[Ace777]

also medical opinions of those physicians who have studied the Shroud of Turin.

There was a lot of back lash from that article when it was first printed.
Most likely more complaints than any article that Journal has ever Published.

 

[cradleGO]

There was a lot of back lash from that article when it was first printed.

My understanding is that there have been many medical related studies of the "man of the Shroud", including by experienced forensic pathologists. The overwhelming conclusion is that "the man" died based on wounds and with the piercing consistent with 1st century Roman practices/equipment. Also, the "anomalies" of the Shroud regarding blood and serum stains can be explained by a man getting a vicious beating and how the body reacts to that.
That, plus the DNA, the pollen, the rock dust, the unique properties of the images, known history, and 'related' history, among other matters, convinces me that the Shroud is authentic.

 

[Ace777]

The overwhelming conclusion is that "the man" died based on wounds and with the piercing consistent with 1st century Roman practices/equipment.

I have a photo of the truck load of equipment they used to analyze the shroud. It actually would be more amazing if it were not for real. No one can duplicate it. It was not until cameras came out that they realized it is a negative. Now they can print it out and as new technology comes along the results get better and better.

 

[cradleGO]

I have a photo of the truck load of equipment they used to analyze the shroud. It actually would be more amazing if it were not for real. No one can duplicate it. It was not until cameras came out that they realized it is a negative. Now they can print it out and as new technology comes along the results get better and better.

Someone said it has been the most studied object in history.
There is a recent thread given below. I made a largish comment, #5, April 30, and another later.

I think some Protestants are put off because it is held by the Catholic Church. (It was taken from Constantinople by the Franks - French/Germans - in their sack of the City in 1204 - the 4th Crusade. Relics were a prime target of the Doge of Venice who masterminded the sack. These, along with a church full of gold objects, and 2 more churches full of silver objects - booty to be distributed. Caused inflation in Europe for a few generations.) But it was held about 400 years longer by the ancient Church, including a time by the Orthodox.

BTW some think that certain writings of Paul are referencing the Shroud, "coded" so that the Temple authorities could not seize it. If so, he is saying it was in Antioch for a time.

Shroud of Turin

This is the DNA on the shroud. https://www.livescience.com/52567-shroud-of-turin-dna.html

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