Did Calvin Murder Servetus?

[drstevej]

No.

 

[nobdysfool]

<crickets>

 

[Super Kal]

7 years before the incident
Written by John Calvin in a letter to Farel Feb. 13, 1546

"If he [Servetus] comes [to Geneva], I shall never let him go out alive if my authority has weight."

During the incident
Again Calvin writes Farel in a letter dated Aug 20th 1553 where he has Servetus arrested.

"We have now new business in hand with Servetus. He intended perhaps passing through this city; for it is not yet known with what design he came. But after he had been recognized, I thought that he should be detained. My friend Nicolas summoned him on a capital charge. ... I hope that sentence of death will at least be passed upon him"

After the incident:

"Many people have accused me of such ferocious cruelty that (they allege) I would like to kill again the man I have destroyed. Not only am I indifferent to their comments, but I rejoice in the fact that they spit in my face."

"Whoever shall now contend that it is unjust to put heretics and blasphemers to death will knowingly and willingly incur their very guilt.

the quote below is a recorded statement from Calvin on the Servetus affair is a 1561 letter from Calvin to the Marquis Paet, high chamberlain to the King of Navarre:

Honour, glory, and riches shall be the reward of your pains; but above all, do not fail to rid the country of those scoundrels, who stir up the people to revolt against us. Such monsters should be exterminated, as I have exterminated Michael Servetus the Spaniard.

Matthew 5:21-22

Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

1 John 3:15

Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

John Calvin himself states that he killed Michael Servetus...
so, in answering this question: Did Calvin Murder Servetus?

i will let John Calvin speak for himself:

...I have exterminated Michael Servetus the Spaniard.

for more on this subject, read "Did Calvin murder Servetus?" by Stanford Rives

 

[drstevej]

He agreed with the sentence and was pleased by it. He did not murder Servetus.

 

[Super Kal]

He agreed with the sentence and was pleased by it. He did not murder Servetus.

according to Jesus and John, whoever has hatred in his heart for his brother has already committed murder... and Calvin himself stated he killed him.

no excuses can be given for John Calvin.

 

[drstevej]

according to Jesus and John, whoever has hatred in his heart for his brother has already committed murder... and Calvin himself stated he killed him.

no excuses can be given for John Calvin.

This is the history section. You have failed to demonstrate that Calvin murdered Servetus, That was the Geneva City Council's decision and implementation.

I would never conclude that because you hate John Calvin that you have murdered him. Fact is you two were never alive on earth at the same time so it is impossible for you to have murdered him.

 

[Super Kal]

This is the history section. You have failed to demonstrate that Calvin murdered Servetus, That was the Geneva City Council's decision and implementation.

I would never conclude that because you hate John Calvin that you have murdered him. Fact is you two were never alive on earth at the same time so it is impossible for you to have murdered him.

i know this is the history section... it's exactly why I posted those quotes from John Calvin here.

you weren't there either... but from letters written from John Calvin himself, we can deduce his heart on the subject matter, and his letters concerning the decision of the court because of his power and authority in Geneva are indeed history... for just as Irenaeus defended Christianity against Gnosticism in the 2nd century is taken as a historical document, so will we take the writings and life of John Calvin as history.

John Calvin said he killed Michael Servetus. he may not of lit the fire to the wood, but because of the power he had in Geneva, and his hatred for Michael influenced those around him... yes, he did kill Servetus... looking at iut from a lawyer's standpoint, Stanford Rives does a very good job of refuting any excuses that Calvinists make in defense of John Calvin and the murder of Servetus.

 

[Biblicist]

drstevej,

Over the years I have heard this raised on a number of occasions but it does seem that Super Kal has demonstrated that Calvin was certainly involved in the process and therefore with his murder. It is hard to imagine that Calvins eminent status within his city did not play a part in the murder of Servetus and by Calvins own words it was his friend Nicolas who placed the charge on him.

The interesting thing about this is that until you raised your question I was not aware of the information that Super Kal has posted. If you cannot demonstrate beyond reasonable doubt that the information that has been supplied is a forgery, you have in fact enabled a number of us who were uncertain about this issue to come to the conclusion that even though Calvin did not hold the executioners hand, he was as complicit as was the executioner himself.

 

[drstevej]

Calvin was expelled from Geneva by the Council prior to his restoration. Servetus would have been executed in any of a number of places where Calvin never visited.

My assessment of the events is based upon doctoral level study of Calvin and Geneva. I have read more than the anti-Calvin screeds.

However, you now have admitted that Calvin did not murder Servetus and adopted the Calvin had Servetus murdered position. Can you document your new view?

 

[drstevej]

No complicity has been shown it has been assumed. Calvin agreed with the decision> He was pleased by the decision. To argue beyond that is speculation born of antipathy.

 

[Biblicist]

drstevej,

However, you now have admitted that Calvin did not murder Servetus and adopted the Calvin had Servetus murdered position. Can you document your new view?

I will agree that Calvin did not place his hand on the executioners weapon but it hard to deny that Calvin did not strongly influence the Geneva Council to the point going by the above documentation that he may have even pushed for his execution.

Was he guility of his murder? Going by the above documentation I would say that he was certainly guility and if it went before a court in my country I suspect that Calvin would have been arrested as a co-conspirator.

You will have to forgive my next analogy but I think it makes my point fairly clear. Even though Calvin was probably not in the prison at the time of his murder, it may be like trying to excuse Hitler for the crimes committed against humanity merely because he did not wield the executioners axe.

 

[Super Kal]

edit

 

[drstevej]

Geneva was a Canton (i.e. City State) not a Monarchy or dictatorship (as is the case with Hitler). Geneva was ruled not by any individual but by majority vote of the Canton Council. This same Council previously banished Calvin from the City.

Have you ever studied the governance of the Swiss cantons? It might give you perspective.

 

[Biblicist]

drstevej,

I should say that I am not against capital punishment as I believe that it is a right given to governments by God himself, though of course if any judgment is given for the wrong motivations then I still would not want to be in their shoes when standing before the Lord.

 

[drstevej]

drstevej,

I should say that I am not against capital punishment as I believe that it is a right given to governments by God himself, though of course if any judgment is given for the wrong motivations then I still would not want to be in their shoes when standing before the Lord.

You must realize that the notion of religious tolerance was largely absent in Europe until a century later. Hundreds of Calvinists were murdered in the St Bartholomew Day Massacre. Hundreds of Anabaptists were martyred by Catholics and Protestants. I am not defending the intolerance of the era, I am saying to make CALVIN the scapegoat is a woeful ignorance of Genera or the entire era.

 

[Biblicist]

drstevej,

It does seem that there is a need to address the material that was posted by Super Kal as it is this material that we are judging the question on. As I mentioned before, if this material was presented in a court of Law it would be hard to imagine Calvin not facing charges.

 

[Biblicist]

You must realize that the notion of religious tolerance was largely absent in Europe until a century later. Hundreds of Calvinists were murdered in the St Bartholomew Day Massacre. Hundreds of Anabaptists were martyred by Catholics and Protestants. I am not defending the intolerance of the era, I am saying to make CALVIN the scapegoat is a woeful ignorance of Genera or the entire era.

This is a valid point which I was thinking of making myself as I tend to see much of the Great Reformation as being more about political change than spiritual; it is hard to see any true spiritual renwal within the church being realised for several decades but at least it was a break from the wickedness of the imperial religion of the day.

We would have hoped that a man of Calvins stature, that he would have stood above the crowd and not simply bowed to the intolerance and inhumanity of the time.

 

[drstevej]

We would have hoped that a man of Calvins stature, that he would have stood above the crowd and not simply bowed to the intolerance and inhumanity of the time.

I would agree. Calvin was in this regard a man of his times as was Zwingli, Luther, et al.

I only argue for an assessment that squares with history.

 

[oworm]

What would you think of a man who said?

If anyone has no love for the Lord, let him be accursed.

If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!

 

[Biblicist]

drstevej,

I remember when I first read about Calvin supposedly supporting or endorsing the murder of Servetus and it certainly surprised me. If he had of been one of the Roman Curia then I would not have raised an eyelid toward it but considering his mastery of many aspects of the Scriptures it is still somewhat of a surprise.

Even though I have now come to the conclusion that he was guilty of this crime, in most part due to Super Kal's material (and with your OP), I can still understand the crazy (or wicked) times that Calvin and his contemporaries were coming out of.

In my view it may be better to simply accept that Calvin who was certainly a product of his times, that he showed a gross lack of judgement in this matter.