Did Caiaphas the high-Priest recognise Jesus as the Messiah?

[Tyndale]

John 11:49-52 "And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad."

Thoughts?

 

[MrPolo]

According to St. John Chrysostom, 4th century:

For Caiphas having becoming high priest, though unworthy of that dignity, prophesies, not knowing indeed what he says. The Holy Ghost makes use of his tongue only, but touches not his sinful heart. (St. Chrysostom, hom. lxiv. in Joan.)​

God has always utilized the high office of His people in a special way. Caiaphas may well not have realized the impact of what he was saying. This is contrasted by similar comments of Jesus to Peter, who DID understand who Jesus was, when Jesus told Peter, "Blessed are you....for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you but my Father in heaven." In both instances, God works through the person holding the high office, but the New Covenant is the superior, more glorious type.

 

[visionary]

God moved upon hs heart to speak prophectically, even if he did not understand the full implications of what he said.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

John 11:49-52 "And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad."

Thoughts?

Do ya think he might have read Daniel 12?

http://www.scripture4all.org/

John 11:49 But, a certain one from among them, Caiaphas, being High-priest for that year said unto them "ye know nothing at all.
50 Neither ye are reckoning that expedient to ye that one Man may be dying over the people and no whole the Nation should be perishing.

Daniel 12:1 And in that time, Miyka'el shall standup, the Chief, the Great, the One-standing over sons of people of thee. [Revelation 12]
And a time of Tribulation becomes, which not occurred from to become of a Nation/01471 gowy, until the time, that.

Matt 24:21 "For then shall be Tribulation/qliyiV <2347> Great, the such as not has become from beginning of World til of the now, neither not no may be becoming

 

[ToxicReboMan]

John 11:49-52 "And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad."

Thoughts?

The following verses seem to indicate that Caiaphas did not believe that Jesus was the Christ. I don't see how Caiaphas could have ever believed that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God, when Caiaphas himself wanted Jesus to be killed. Curious, what brings up the question?



Matthew 26:62-67 NKJV:

​

And the high priest arose and said to Him, “Do You answer nothing? What is it these men testify against You?” But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest answered and said to Him, “I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!”

Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Then the high priest tore his clothes, saying, “He has spoken blasphemy! What further need do we have of witnesses? Look, now you have heard His blasphemy! What do you think?”
They answered and said, “He is deserving of death.”

Then they spat in His face and beat Him; and others struck Him with the palms of their hands, saying, “Prophesy to us, Christ! Who is the one who struck You?”"
​

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The following verses seem to indicate that Caiaphas did not believe that Jesus was the Christ. I don't see how Caiaphas could have ever believed that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God, when Caiaphas himself wanted Jesus to be killed. Curious, what brings up the question?

Where in the Scriptures did Caiphas get the idea that one man would be dying for the Nation and that it was Jesus?

How did he know Jesus was about to die unless he knew Jesus as a Blasphemer?

Was he speaking of certain prophecies in the OT/OC that the other Judeans didn't know about or understand?

He didn't seem to mention about a Ressurection/Ascension of Jesus or the coming Tribulation/Wrath/Judgement coming upon that Nation after that.......Thougths?

Scripture4all - Greek/Hebrew interlinear Bible software

John 11:51 This yet from himself not he spake, but Chief-priest being of that year, he prophesies that the Jesus was about/emellen <3195> (5707) to be dying for the Nation

Textus Rec.) John 11:51 touto de af eautou ouk eipen alla arciereuV wn tou eniautou ekeinou proefhteusen oti emellen o ihsouV apoqnhskein uper tou eqnouV

2 Timothy 4:1 Thru-witnessing then I, before the God and the Lord Jesus Christ, of the being-about/mellontoV <3195> (5723) to be judging living and dead according as the appearance/manifestation of Him and the Kingdom of Him [Reve 11:18]

 

[ToxicReboMan]

A) Where in the Scriptures did Caiphas get the idea that one man would be dying for the Nation and that it was Jesus?

B) How did he know Jesus was about to die unless he knew Jesus as a Blasphemer?

C) Was he speaking of certain prophecies in the OT/OC that the other Judeans didn't know about or understand?

D) He didn't seem to mention about a Ressurection/Ascension of Jesus or the coming Tribulation/Wrath/Judgement coming upon that Nation after that.......Thougths?

Putting me to the test or just looking for answers?

A) Essentially, you are asking, "Why would Caiaphas make such a declaration?" Correct me if I am wrong on that. I think one reason might be that Caiaphas perhaps thought that Jesus and his followers would eventually cause the wrath of Rome to fall upon them, because Roman Law did not allow other sovereign kings in its empire except Caeser alone. So, since Caiaphas viewed that this man, Jesus of Nazareth, was a threat to his seat of power and influence (and perhaps also a threat to the entire nation of Israel) he wanted Jesus to be done away with to protect his position of spiritual and political leadership. Just some thoughts of mine. What do you think?


B) Sorry, not really sure I follow your question. Could you elaborate please? Sounds interesting though, I just want to better understand where you are coming from. It sounds like you are making the argument that the only reason Caiaphas would want to kill Jesus is if he understood Jesus to be a blasphemer. Am I following you correctly? Not that I disagree with that notion. I have never thought about it before in that sense. When was Jesus first considered a blasphemer by the chief priests, scribes, and Pharisees?


C) I don't think that Caiaphas had the OT prophecies in mind when he made such declarations. For he was a blind guide as Jesus had said previously. Yet, the Holy Spirit was using Caiaphas regardless to prophecy because of his position as High Priest that year.


D) Caiaphas was a Sadducee. The Sadducees did not believe in a resurrection, tribulation, heaven, hell, angels, or in spirits etc. The Pharisees however did believe in these things. Nicodemus was a Pharisee. Paul formerly known as Saul was a Pharisee as well. Paul as he himself pointed out to the Council in the book of Acts that he was being punished for his beliefs in the hope and resurrection of the dead. This divided the Council since it consisted of both Pharisees and Sadducees.

"But perceiving that one group were Sadducees and the other Pharisees, Paul began crying out in the Council, "Brethren, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees; I am on trial for the hope and resurrection of the dead!"

As he said this, there occurred a dissension between the Pharisees and Sadducees, and the assembly was divided.

For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, nor an angel, nor a spirit, but the Pharisees acknowledge them all." Acts 23:6-8
​

Thoughts my friend?

 

[Tyndale]

Do ya think he might have read Daniel 12?

Scripture4all - Greek/Hebrew interlinear Bible software

John 11:49 But, a certain one from among them, Caiaphas, being High-priest for that year said unto them "ye know nothing at all.
50 Neither ye are reckoning that expedient to ye that one Man may be dying over the people and no whole the Nation should be perishing.

Daniel 12:1 And in that time, Miyka'el shall standup, the Chief, the Great, the One-standing over sons of people of thee. [Revelation 12]
And a time of Tribulation becomes, which not occurred from to become of a Nation/01471 gowy, until the time, that.

Matt 24:21 "For then shall be Tribulation/qliyiV <2347> Great, the such as not has become from beginning of World til of the now, neither not no may be becoming

He would have been well aware

The following verses seem to indicate that Caiaphas did not believe that Jesus was the Christ. I don't see how Caiaphas could have ever believed that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God, when Caiaphas himself wanted Jesus to be killed. Curious, what brings up the question?

Since the last few days I've been mostly reading and posting stuff about the Jews and when I read John 11:49-52, especially the last 2 verses it dawned on me that John may be telling us here that Caiaphas knew Jesus was the Messiah and that he had to die.

 

[ToxicReboMan]

Since the last few days I've been mostly reading and posting stuff about the Jews and when I read John 11:49-52, especially the last 2 verses it dawned on me that John may be telling us here that Caiaphas knew Jesus was the Messiah and that he had to die.

Hello Tyndale



Ah, I think I see what happened here. I believe you are mistakenly taking what the narrator of the Gospel of John is saying as the "quoted words" of the High Priest Caiaphas himself. In actuality, all Caiaphas is actually recorded as saying is in verses 49-50 NKJV,"You know nothing at all, nor do you consider that it is expedient for us that one man should die for the people, and not that the whole nation should perish." The actual quote stops right there. Verses 51 and 52 are thoughts given by the narrator which expound on the prophecy given by Caiaphas, the High Priest. John is explaining that not only did Jesus die for the nation as Caiaphas clearly stated, but He also died for those children of God who were scattered across the face of the earth that they might be gathered together in unity. That, I believe, is the meaning of verses 51 and 52. I don't think they mean that Caiaphas believed Jesus was the Messiah. If one reads verses 51 and 52 as if there are the quoted words of Caiaphas, I could see how other interpretations/ideas could easily arise.


Hope this proves useful.

 

[Tyndale]

John is explaining that not only did Jesus die for the nation as Caiaphas clearly stated, but He also died for those children of God who were scattered across the face of the earth that they might be gathered together in unity. That, I believe, is the meaning of verses 51 and 52. I don't think they mean that Caiaphas believed Jesus was the Messiah. If one reads verses 51 and 52 as if there are the quoted words of Caiaphas, I could see how other interpretations/ideas could easily arise.

Hope this proves useful.

Hi Reboman,

We'll probably need the original Greek here to find out what John is actually saying. Vs 52 starts "And not for that nation only, but that also..." which seems to continue on without there being any attempt to make us aware of a difference in vs 51 and 52. Maybe if someone is knowledgable in the structure of biblical verses they could shed some more light on this.

However, Caiaphas should have been aware that the Messiah:

- was to enter Jerusalem as a king riding on an ass (Zechariah 9:9)

- would be sold for 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:12)

- would be betrayed by a friend (Psalms 41:9)

- would have a messenger crying "Prepare ye the way of the Lord" (Isaiah 40:3).....(Matthew 3:3)

- would be a Nazarene (Judges 13:5; Amos 2:11; Lam. 4:7)

- would be silent to accusations (Isaiah 53:7)

- heal blind/deaf/lame/dumb (Isaiah 35:5-6; Isaiah 29:18)

- preach to the poor/brokenhearted/captives (Isaiah 61:1)

- spat upon, smitten and scourged (Isaiah 50:6, 53:5)

........Caiaphas would have been one pretty silly High-Priest if he hadn't had the slightest incline Jesus was the Messiah. The 30 pieces of silver spoken of in Zechariah should have triggered his interest if non of the other signs hadn't already.

 

[ToxicReboMan]

Hi Reboman,

We'll probably need the original Greek here to find out what John is actually saying. Vs 52 starts "And not for that nation only, but that also..." which seems to continue on without there being any attempt to make us aware of a difference in vs 51 and 52. Maybe if someone is knowledgable in the structure of biblical verses they could shed some more light on this.

However, Caiaphas should have been aware that the Messiah:

- was to enter Jerusalem as a king riding on an ass (Zechariah 9:9)

- would be sold for 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:12)

- would be betrayed by a friend (Psalms 41:9)

- would have a messenger crying "Prepare ye the way of the Lord" (Isaiah 40:3).....(Matthew 3:3)

- would be a Nazarene (Judges 13:5; Amos 2:11; Lam. 4:7)

- would be silent to accusations (Isaiah 53:7)

- heal blind/deaf/lame/dumb (Isaiah 35:5-6; Isaiah 29:18)

- preach to the poor/brokenhearted/captives (Isaiah 61:1)

- spat upon, smitten and scourged (Isaiah 50:6, 53:5)

........Caiaphas would have been one pretty silly High-Priest if he hadn't had the slightest incline Jesus was the Messiah. The 30 pieces of silver spoken of in Zechariah should have triggered his interest if non of the other signs hadn't already.

Verses 51 and 52 are one continuous thought given by the narrator. Verse 51 does not have any quotes around it in any of the modern English translations that I have read. Even without quotation marks you can tell by the semantics that it is not Caiaphas talking in verse 51. If it was him being quoted then he was referring to himself in the 3rd person. And I find that to be unlikely.


Now I wouldn't doubt that the High Priest knew about these Scripture prophecies, but perhaps he was just too blind to see it when it was actually fulfilled before his eyes.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Verses 51 and 52 are one continuous thought given by the narrator. Verse 51 does not have any quotes around it in any of the modern English translations that I have read. Even without quotation marks you can tell by the semantics that it is not Caiaphas talking in verse 51. If it was him being quoted then he was referring to himself in the 3rd person. And I find that to be unlikely.


Now I wouldn't doubt that the High Priest new about these Scripture prophecies, but perhaps he was just too blind to see it when it was actually fulfilled before his eyes.

I tend to agree with you about those 2 verse being a narration....tis interesting though

John 11:51 This yet from himself not he said but

Textus Rec.) John 11:51 touto de af eautou ouk eipen alla arciereuV wn tou eniautou ekeinou proefhteusen oti emellen o ihsouV apoqnhskein uper tou eqnouV

Textus Rec.) John 11:51 touto de af eautou ouk eipen alla arciereuV wn tou eniautou ekeinou proefhteusen oti emellen o ihsouV apoqnhskein uper tou eqnouV

 

[ToxicReboMan]

I tend to agree with you about those 2 verse being a narration....tis interesting though

John 11:51 This yet from himself not he said but

Textus Rec.) John 11:51 touto de af eautou ouk eipen alla arciereuV wn tou eniautou ekeinou proefhteusen oti emellen o ihsouV apoqnhskein uper tou eqnouV

Textus Rec.) John 11:51 touto de af eautou ouk eipen alla arciereuV wn tou eniautou ekeinou proefhteusen oti emellen o ihsouV apoqnhskein uper tou eqnouV

It is interesting. The idea that Caiaphas knew who Jesus really was is a new concept to me. The title of the thread sure did grab my attention. lol

 

[Tyndale]

Verses 51 and 52 are one continuous thought given by the narrator. Verse 51 does not have any quotes around it in any of the modern English translations that I have read. Even without quotation marks you can tell by the semantics that it is not Caiaphas talking in verse 51. If it was him being quoted then he was referring to himself in the 3rd person. And I find that to be unlikely.

Am I missing something here? Why do you think it important Caiaphus was speaking in vs 51+52?

And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad."

John says Caiaphus phrophesied that Jesus should die for that nation and also gather the Children scattered abroad. John goes further than Caiaphus's own words.

 

[Tyndale]

Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

Just looked up the greek word for "people" used in vs 50. 'laos' is used and according to Strongs 'a people (in general; thus differing from dhmoV - demos 1218, which denotes one's own populace):--people.'

This would suggest that when Caiaphus said its good one man should die for the people, he meant people in a general sense.

LLOJ, does your interliner interprute people in vs 50 like this?

 

[ToxicReboMan]

Am I missing something here? Why do you think it important Caiaphus was speaking in vs 51+52?

And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad."

John says Caiaphus phrophesied that Jesus should die for that nation and also gather the Children scattered abroad. John goes further than Caiaphus's own words.

Right. John goes further to explain. Not Caiaphas. So how can you conclude from this that Caiaphas knew Jesus was the Son of God? I don't follow that deduction. It was John who understood that the High Priest was prophesying. I don't think the High Priest actually knew that he was prophesying. It was John who knew this. That is why it is John who expounded on the prophecy and not Caiaphas. That is how I perceive it anyways.

 

[Tyndale]

I don't think the High Priest actually knew that he was prophesying. It was John who knew this. That is why it is John who expounded on the prophecy and not Caiaphas. That is how I perceive it anyways.

You think God took over Caiaphus without Caiaphus understanding what he prophecised? I suppose it could happen, but I'm leaning to the notion he was aware of what he was saying.

According to Numbers 12:6-8, God has a way of speaking to Prophets. "And He said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak to him in a dream. My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house. With him I will speak mouth to mouth...."

 

[OpenDoor]

"You mean he has deceived you also?" the Pharisees retorted. "Has any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed in him? No! But this mob that knows nothing of the law&#8212;there is a curse on them."
John 7:47-49

if Caiaphas was one of these Pharisees then the answer is no he did not believe.

 

[JohnDB]

OK...time for me to weigh in.

The leader of the Pharisees and the High Priest...and the leaders of the Sadducees weren't bad guys as so many small group bible study leaders and pastors make them out to be.

These were the "most spiritual" guys that the community at large knew.

There were many "messiahs' running about during Jesus' day. (of course all of them were false messiahs) The book of Acts tells us of a couple. Josephus records a couple more. Jesus (our Jesus) was actually the least "successfull" messiah running about. He only had 200 loyal followers where the others all had thousands.

The Land of Israel/Palestine at large was under Roman/Greek occupation. The religious leaders worried about the apostate condition of the average man. The Law was so stricktly enforced and told about because there were so many not following it and instead following along with the Helenization of the area. Jews were going into the Theatres, gymnasiums, going to orgies, public co-ed baths, into the blood sports, eating pork and all kinds of unfaithful things. There were Roman/Greek gods at every water source and temples of all of these foreign gods everywhere...all of this contructed by Jewish construction workers. (Jesus was a construction worker too)

IN order to paint Romans as bad guys they needed a political cause. There was so much infighting amongst themselves (Samaritans, Saduccees, Pharisees, Zealots, Essenes and etc) they decided that if they could unite everyone against Rome and the destructive practices they were promoting...hey, they could clean up the "holy land".

So the Religious leaders got a plan together to find a "small time" prophet or messiah and make it look like Rome killed him...making Rome out to be the enemy. (Why Pilate washed his hands of the ordeal...he really didn't care one way or the other but to keep the peace and shift the blame back to who was wanting this man dead)

Jesus wasn't even the focus of his own crucifixion.

The prophesy that Caiaphus made was the one from Atonement Day. The day that the High Priest enters the Holy of Holies to ask for forgiveness of Israel's sins and comes out with a prophesy for the following year. (He actually lived during the process...during the Hasmonean period they went to tieing ropes on the High Priest's ankles...in order to drag out the corpse)

 

[OpenDoor]

He only had 200 loyal followers where the others all had thousands.

what do you mean by loyal followers?
At least 5,000 followed him but many left.
At one point everyone left Jesus

btw where did you get 200?