Dave Roberson...tongues.

[Blessedj01]

I'm currently reading a book. It's called, 'The Walk of the Spirit The Walk of Power' by Dave Roberson and in it he says that praying in tongues is the key to opening up the power of the Holy Spirit in our lives. Has anyone read this book? Is it correct about what it says?

 

[squint]

I'm currently reading a book. It's called, 'The Walk of the Spirit The Walk of Power' by Dave Roberson and in it he says that praying in tongues is the key to opening up the power of the Holy Spirit in our lives. Has anyone read this book? Is it correct about what it says?

Spare yourself the effort. (former Roberson admirer here, met him personally, sat in his sessions, read his stuff etc etc, almost 30 years ago)

Charismania is a dangerous place to get pawned by the spiritual while they lay hands on you for the location of yer wallet.

There are no formulas that one can employ to manipulate God in Christ. It can't be done.

Read His Word, listen, ask, seek, knock, TRUST.

God in Christ is infinitely more interesting than we could ever imagine.

He can not be outguessed.

s

 

[Blessedj01]

Spare yourself the effort. (former Roberson admirer here, met him personally, sat in his sessions, read his stuff etc etc, almost 30 years ago)

Charismania is a dangerous place to get pawned by the spiritual while they lay hands on you for the location of yer wallet.

There are no formulas that one can employ to manipulate God in Christ. It can't be done.

Read His Word, listen, ask, seek, knock, TRUST.

God in Christ is infinitely more interesting than we could ever imagine.

He can not be outguessed.

s

I'm going to finish the book, especially as I haven't reached the "How to effectively pray in tongues" section yet...but I just feel kind of weird about what I'm reading sometimes. I guess it's what you said.

For example, some of his statements like praying in tongues "qualifies you to fulfill God's call on your life" or that it 'releases' the power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[squint]

I'm going to finish the book, especially as I haven't reached the "How to effectively pray in tongues" section yet...but I just feel kind of weird about what I'm reading sometimes. I guess it's what you said.

For example, some of his statements like praying in tongues "qualifies you to fulfill God's call on your life" or that it 'releases' the power of the Holy Spirit.

I could get into some long personal accounts and experiences here in this arena, having interacted with some of the greatest in the charismatic arena for a long period of time. It's a phase that some are called to go through, and it taught me a LOT, but not what I thought or what they thought.

In the end I found that God in Christ was much greater. Much. When we sit down with our own subjectivity, imaginations and impositions we tend to never see them as such.

Pressing for a perfect reflection is an eternal matter and will eventually take a believer away from their personal subjectivity, imaginations and impositions to the point that they learn to listen and to observe.

God is quite active and working continually, right here, right now. To see same is to put away our imaginations and be shown by Him. Those matters no man is able to show.

Jeremiah 33:3
Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.

I learned to approach in this way. "I know not." Why? Because it's a spiritual fact and a principle (of many such) that I was shown.

John 3:27
John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

Galatians 6:3
For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

We all stand factually before God as blind men, hearing nothing, seeing nothing, as dead men. This is a position of basic respect. From here a man will both see and receive, and they will know their position doesn't change.

s

 

[Harry3142]

Speaking in tongues is used by some church leaders and denominations 'on the fringe' in order to identify themselves as having the Holy Spirit inside them in the same way as it was in the apostles on the Day of Pentecost. But when we read Acts 2, we find that the 'tongues' which they spoke were unknown only to the apostles themselves. The hearers identified every language they used in their message as the hearers' native tongues.

I've known this 'speaking in tongues' belief to have caused actions which were, to put it bluntly, fraudulent. I was familiar with the Catholic Missal when it was still written in Latin. One of my fellow Christians, who was also familiar with the Missal, went to a meeeting circa 1971 where a traveling evangelist was speaking. But the way it worked was that the evangelist would speak in an unknown tongue, and then one of the preachers with the gift of translating tongues would interpret what the evangelist had said.

What the evangelist did was quote from a section of the Catholic Missal (he had obviously memorized it), and then repeat those pages two or three times. But afterwards the preacher got up and 'translated' what the evangelist had said as telling the people that God had blessed their particular denomination, the laity was to obey without question whatever commands the heirarchy of that church gave them, and they were to see all those who weren't members of that church as condemned by God himself. And there were quite a few people there who accepted that propaganda as having come from the Holy Spirit himself, since it was a 'translation' of what they believed was the Holy Spirit's speaking through the evangelist in a tongue which the hearers didn't recognize, except for my fellow Christian.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Sounds like Diotrephes a little without any mention of the tongues thingy.

 

[Blessedj01]

Anyone else with insights into Dave Robersons' ministry on tongues?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Anyone else with insights into Dave Robersons' ministry on tongues?

Yes. I have read the book through twice. I found it very faith building. I have been using the gift of tongues in my private prayer life for about 45 years, and it has been a great blessing in my Christian life.

I think that much that has been said in opposition to the gift of tongues on this thead is just simply rubbish from people who don't have any personal experience of the gift.

Paul spent a whole chapter of the Bible teaching about the correct use of tongues, and because it is the inspired Word of God, I firmly believe that tongues is a prayer tool to be used to assist us in prayer. The use of it is for private prayer, and some of the problems with it has come through the unscriptural and inappropriate public use of it.

We have to take care about the actual effects that happened to Dave Roberson when he decided to do extended speaking in tongues. Those effects that what happened with him. When I decided to do the same over two or three months, I had a different experience.

What happened to me was that my ministry became more effective and recognised. When I preached, people's faith was strengthened. I also found that I was receiving deeper insights into God's Word. In fact, the time I spent praying in tongues raised me up to a higher level of faith with God.

One memorable incident was when I was asked to pray for the mother of a friend from London who was in hospital gravely ill and in danger of dying. I prayed for her and I started praying in a totally different language. It was an urgent, dramatic language. It came too fast from me for me to make it up. Two days later, my friend told me that his mother pulled through and she is still alive today.

John Calvin said in his commentary on 1 Corinthians 14 that the gift of tongues was withdrawn from the Church after the 3rd Century because of the misuse of it in the same way that the Corinthian church was misusing it. This is why Paul had to let them know the correct way of using it.

If people followed the teaching of Paul concerning tongues, we would not hear it being spoken in churches without an interpretation given.

Incidentally, the whole of 1 Corinthians was written for people who were baby Christians who could only take milk. That's what Paul wrote at the start of the book. So, everything that is written in 1 Corinthians is stuff that is meant to be taught in a new Christians class. This includes the operation of the gifts of the Spirit, including tongues. So, if believers in churches are not using the gifts of the Spirit, they are not doing things that even baby Christians should be able to do.

That's how far our contemporary church has fallen from the standard that existed in the early Church.

So those who counsel that using the gift of tongues causes damage or induces churches to get money out of people, their counsel is foolishness and nonsense, and is a blatant disregard for God's inspired Word given through Paul to the Corinthians, and to all who are called by Christ everywhere (this is said at the start of 1 Corinthians).

 

[tturt]

blessedj01, there are numerous reasons to speak in tongues.

I Cor. 12:28 states “And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues,”
(1) one purpose of speaking in tongues is for church edification such as I Cor 12:10 every believer isn't going to be given that gift; however,
(2) other purposes are a personal language between you and our Heavenly Father is shown in such Scriptures such as Acts 10:46 "For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. …” Jude 1:20 "But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, 21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.” There's also singing in the Spirit I Cor 14: 15 “What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.”

Though this is like salvation in that Yahweh isn't going to make any person become a believer nor make any believer speak in tongues.

 

[spartakis]

I'm currently reading a book. It's called, 'The Walk of the Spirit The Walk of Power' by Dave Roberson and in it he says that praying in tongues is the key to opening up the power of the Holy Spirit in our lives. Has anyone read this book? Is it correct about what it says?

Tongues Biblically was used as a sign gift for those to preach the word in an unknown language and those listening to understand. Since it was used as a sign for authority of the apostles and early church, I believe the Bible teaches tongues ceased with the only authority a Christian needs and thats the perfect word of God the Bible. Now since people cant speak tongues in an unlearned language and others understand they turned it and state its a prayer language, but yet the Bible teaches against that and tell use to pray with understanding. Is there scripture to back up what I am saying yes, but I am not here to debate the matter just state my belief. Study it out with prayer and an open mind.

 

[squint]

That's how far our contemporary church has fallen from the standard that existed in the early Church.

So those who counsel that using the gift of tongues causes damage or induces churches to get money out of people, their counsel is foolishness and nonsense, and is a blatant disregard for God's inspired Word given through Paul to the Corinthians, and to all who are called by Christ everywhere (this is said at the start of 1 Corinthians).

We know them by their fruit. It is foolish to speak against 'gifts.' It's a question of 'legitimacy' in judgment about what is being promoted and shown.

Was the abundance of nonsense that sprung from the charismatic movement 'all true?' Not even close. Does that mean there was no move of the Spirit? No. Usually the 'spirit of error' and 'the Spirit of Truth' come and work in very close proximity to each others. Very close.

Closer than most think.

s

 

[zeke37]

Speaking in tongues is used by some church leaders and denominations 'on the fringe' in order to identify themselves as having the Holy Spirit inside them in the same way as it was in the apostles on the Day of Pentecost. But when we read Acts 2, we find that the 'tongues' which they spoke were unknown only to the apostles themselves. The hearers identified every language they used in their message as the hearers' native tongues.

I've known this 'speaking in tongues' belief to have caused actions which were, to put it bluntly, fraudulent. I was familiar with the Catholic Missal when it was still written in Latin. One of my fellow Christians, who was also familiar with the Missal, went to a meeeting circa 1971 where a traveling evangelist was speaking. But the way it worked was that the evangelist would speak in an unknown tongue, and then one of the preachers with the gift of translating tongues would interpret what the evangelist had said.

What the evangelist did was quote from a section of the Catholic Missal (he had obviously memorized it), and then repeat those pages two or three times. But afterwards the preacher got up and 'translated' what the evangelist had said as telling the people that God had blessed their particular denomination, the laity was to obey without question whatever commands the heirarchy of that church gave them, and they were to see all those who weren't members of that church as condemned by God himself. And there were quite a few people there who accepted that propaganda as having come from the Holy Spirit himself, since it was a 'translation' of what they believed was the Holy Spirit's speaking through the evangelist in a tongue which the hearers didn't recognize, except for my fellow Christian.

I'm currently reading a book. It's called, 'The Walk of the Spirit The Walk of Power' by Dave Roberson and in it he says that praying in tongues is the key to opening up the power of the Holy Spirit in our lives. Has anyone read this book? Is it correct about what it says?

biblical tongues has nothing to do with what we see in charismatic circles today.
infact, it's pretty much the opposite.
complete bunk.

1Cor14 is prob one of the most mis-interpreted scripture sets around.

 

[Blessedj01]

Thanks for the comments guys. I'm still reading the book and finding a lot of it quite compelling. I haven't reached the part on how to pray in tongues yet, so I will reserve my judgement until after I've finished the book. I definitely think speaking in tongues is a biblical concept, i'm just wondering how to interpret it at this point.

 

[spartakis]

Thanks for the comments guys. I'm still reading the book and finding a lot of it quite compelling. I haven't reached the part on how to pray in tongues yet, so I will reserve my judgement until after I've finished the book. I definitely think speaking in tongues is a biblical concept, i'm just wondering how to interpret it at this point.

Praying in tongues is not the tongues from the Bible. May I give you a tip. Instead of making your mind up after reading the book. Pray about it and read and study the word of God then make your mind up.

Tongues Biblically was used as a sign gift for those to preach the word in an unknown language and those listening to understand. Since it was used as a sign for authority of the apostles and early church, I believe the Bible teaches tongues ceased with the only authority a Christian needs and thats the perfect word of God the Bible. Now since people cant speak tongues in an unlearned language and others understand they turned it and state its a prayer language, but yet the Bible teaches against that and tell use to pray with understanding. Is there scripture to back up what I am saying yes, but I am not here to debate the matter just state my belief. Study it out with prayer and an open mind

 

[Blessedj01]

Thanks for the tip. I'm going to carry on reading the book, research this further in the Bible and ask some elders at church what they think as well. It's a journey to the Truth.

 

[Optimax]

acts 1:8 confirms it.


Notice that the purpose was for power.

Acts 1:8
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. KJV

The result was they spoke in tongues. Tongues is praying in the spirit.

Very powerful stuff.

 

[mindfulness]

Yay, more people bashing the charismatics! Awesome.

 

[Blessedj01]

Okay, so maybe tongues is praying in the spirit? But what about praying in the spirit with your own tongue? Am I not "in the Spirit" when I pray to God? Just asking.

 

[Blessedj01]

...still reading. Almost done. I am getting something from it, but it's causing me more confusion than anything on some issues.

The section on "how to effectively pray in tongues" still didn't tell me how, or how it works. At least not from what I took from it. :/

Will get back with my final thoughts once I've completed the book.

p.s here is the book in case you want to look at it

http://www.bbtj.org/reviews/materials/WOSWOP.pdf

 

[Stravinsk]

(snip)...

What the evangelist did was quote from a section of the Catholic Missal (he had obviously memorized it), and then repeat those pages two or three times. But afterwards the preacher got up and 'translated' what the evangelist had said as telling the people that God had blessed their particular denomination, the laity was to obey without question whatever commands the heirarchy of that church gave them, and they were to see all those who weren't members of that church as condemned by God himself. And there were quite a few people there who accepted that propaganda as having come from the Holy Spirit himself, since it was a 'translation' of what they believed was the Holy Spirit's speaking through the evangelist in a tongue which the hearers didn't recognize, except for my fellow Christian.

*Shudder*

Many moons ago I used to go to a Pentecostal church that "spoke in tongues" and the message was always similar "I have chosen you. I love you. You are blessed" but minus the "obey without question the church heirarchy" and "all other denominations are condemned" messages.

It wasn't a controlling church - but the message was still similar psychological conditioning - that that particular denomination/congregation had something special that others did not.

Thus it's another way for men and women who get their wages through preaching to hold on to their bread and butter - their flock - through deception.