Dating Exodus

[mindlight]

Are there any convincing reasons why we should not take a literal view of Exodus and accept the traditional date for it in 1446BC

The text itself seems to affirm this date:

1 Kings 6:1; Judges 11:26

There is some evidence to support this view:

This view would ascribe the murder of infants (Exodus 1:16–21) to either Amenhotep I or Thutmose I, whose reputations align with such cruelty. It also connects to Thutmose I’s daughter, Hatshepsut, a female co-regent (Exodus 2:5–6) whose stepson worked to counter her legacy (Exodus 2:14–15). Amenhotep II, the seventh Pharaoh of the Eighteenth Dynasty, notably suffered a lack of military campaigns beginning in 1446 BC (Exodus 14:28), and his heir, Thutmose IV, was criticized for being a less-than-legitimate successor (Exodus 11:4–5; 12:29).

Contemporary archaeological records such as the Amarna letters indicate a major disruption in Canaan blamed on a people referred to as the ‘Apiru or Habiru (Exodus 9:1). Discoveries also include evidence of cities such as Jericho being conquered during that timeframe. All this contributes to the assumption that 1446 BC is the most likely date of the exodus from Egypt.

What was the date of the exodus from Egypt? | GotQuestions.org

What was the date of the exodus from Egypt? In what years did the book of Exodus occur?

www.gotquestions.org

Or do you find 1225 BC more convincing based on Exodus 1:11

 

[WhoIsLikeGod?]

Are there any convincing reasons why we should not take a literal view of Exodus and accept the traditional date for it in 1446BC

The text itself seems to affirm this date:

1 Kings 6:1; Judges 11:26

There is some evidence to support this view:

This view would ascribe the murder of infants (Exodus 1:16–21) to either Amenhotep I or Thutmose I, whose reputations align with such cruelty. It also connects to Thutmose I’s daughter, Hatshepsut, a female co-regent (Exodus 2:5–6) whose stepson worked to counter her legacy (Exodus 2:14–15). Amenhotep II, the seventh Pharaoh of the Eighteenth Dynasty, notably suffered a lack of military campaigns beginning in 1446 BC (Exodus 14:28), and his heir, Thutmose IV, was criticized for being a less-than-legitimate successor (Exodus 11:4–5; 12:29).

Contemporary archaeological records such as the Amarna letters indicate a major disruption in Canaan blamed on a people referred to as the ‘Apiru or Habiru (Exodus 9:1). Discoveries also include evidence of cities such as Jericho being conquered during that timeframe. All this contributes to the assumption that 1446 BC is the most likely date of the exodus from Egypt.

What was the date of the exodus from Egypt? | GotQuestions.org

What was the date of the exodus from Egypt? In what years did the book of Exodus occur?

www.gotquestions.org

Or do you find 1225 BC more convincing based on Exodus 1:11

The exodus occurred in 1590 BC.

Here's how this is reckoned:

Solomon's Temple was destroyed in 586 BC. The wrongdoing of the house of Israel lasted 390 years (Eze. 4:5). This puts Jeroboam's idolatry (1 Ki. 12:25–33) at 976 BC.

Solomon reigned 40 years (1 Ki. 11:42).
David reigned 40 years (1 Ki. 2:11).
Saul reigned 40 years (Acts 13:21).
However, the first few months they reigned counted as their first year, even if it wasn't a full year. For example, if Solomon reigned from April 1015 to December 976 BC, the eight months from April 1015 to December 1015 count as his first regnal year. This makes it possible to reign 40 "years" in only 39 calendar years.

Jeroboam's idolatry (976 BC) + 39(3) years = Saul's accession (1093 BC)

God gave Israel judges about the space of 450 years until Samuel the prophet (Acts 13:20 KJV). This puts the conquest of Canaan at 1543 BC.

Forty-five years had passed since Moses sent Caleb from Kadesh-barnea to explore the land of Canaan (Josh. 14:7–10).
The time that it took for the Israelites to come from Kadesh-barnea until they crossed over the Wadi Zered was 38 years (Deut. 2:14).
Conquest of Canaan (1543 BC) + 7 years = exploration of the land of Canaan (1550 BC)

And since the Israelites wandered in the wilderness for 40 years (Josh. 5:6). This puts the exodus at 1590 BC.

 

[Diamond72]

Are there any convincing reasons why we should not take a literal view of Exodus and accept the traditional date for it in 1446BC

There is no reason not to accept Bishop Ussher's dates and people have for over 500 years now.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

Here is a presentation showing when the Exodus actually happened. No, it does not match consensus. And it does not match Bishop Ussher. But it does match the information in the Bible exactly. As part of the investigation, the Year of Creation and the Great Flood are also revealed. It's a 3 part series.

Discovered! The Year of the Exodus

 

[SuperCow]

Here is a presentation showing when the Exodus actually happened. No, it does not match consensus. And it does not match Bishop Ussher. But it does match the information in the Bible exactly. As part of the investigation, the Year of Creation and the Great Flood are also revealed. It's a 3 part series.

Discovered! The Year of the Exodus

FYI, here is a quote from the Christian historian Eusebius of Caesarea who wrote the "Hebrew Chronicle" in the 4th century AD about the consensus dates using the 480 years from 1 Kings 6:1:

“The Hebrew version says: ‘It happened in the 480th year.’ This is because the Jewish doctors [of the faith] calculated that the total figure was 480 years, since they did not count the years that the foreigners ruled over the people separately. They just counted the time that the judges ruled them and included the foreign domination in that figure. This must have been the case, for it is the only way to arrive at a total of 480 years.”

I should note that he created his own biblical timeline based on the Septuagint chronology, which is different from Bishop Ussher's use of the Masoretic.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

FYI, here is a quote from the Christian historian Eusebius of Caesarea who wrote the "Hebrew Chronicle" in the 4th century AD about the consensus dates using the 480 years from 1 Kings 6:1:

“The Hebrew version says: ‘It happened in the 480th year.’ This is because the Jewish doctors [of the faith] calculated that the total figure was 480 years, since they did not count the years that the foreigners ruled over the people separately. They just counted the time that the judges ruled them and included the foreign domination in that figure. This must have been the case, for it is the only way to arrive at a total of 480 years.”

I should note that he created his own biblical timeline based on the Septuagint chronology, which is different from Bishop Ussher's use of the Masoretic.

Yes, the Septuagint contains very different numbers. My theory is that the 70 translators decided to hide the truth in the Greek translation to the gentiles.

Eusebius is incorrect. I've shown how the various dates should be understood. They work out exactly and elegantly as only a correct understanding would do. His understanding of the time of judges is not correct. A proper timeline of the dates within the judges would take into account the parallel track of judges in the northern part and the judges in the southern part.

 

[SuperCow]

Yes, the Septuagint contains very different numbers. My theory is that the 70 translators decided to hide the truth in the Greek translation to the gentiles.

Eusebius is incorrect. I've shown how the various dates should be understood. They work out exactly and elegantly as only a correct understanding would do. His understanding of the time of judges is not correct. A proper timeline of the dates within the judges would take into account the parallel track of judges in the northern part and the judges in the southern part.

I don't actually see it that way. There's nothing in the Judges that indicates to me that there were parallel judges ruling from different regions. The only overlaps are Ehud & Shamgar from Judges 3:30,31 who both served during 80 years of peace, and Samson who served during the Philistine oppression and died ending it.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

I don't actually see it that way. There's nothing in the Judges that indicates to me that there were parallel judges ruling from different regions. The only overlaps are Ehud & Shamgar from Judges 3:30,31 who both served during 80 years of peace, and Samson who served during the Philistine oppression and died ending it.

That's ok if you don't see it that way. Doesn't mean it's not true. One of the big clues is the two 40 year periods of peace. If someone is so inclined, take some time and map out exactly where the judges judged. It will be enlightening.

 

[Andrewn]

Are there any convincing reasons why we should not take a literal view of Exodus and accept the traditional date for it in 1446BC

This date is based on 1Ki 6:1, ignoring biblical statements that Israelites lived in Egypt for 430 years and the Judges ruled for 450 years. Archeology debunks this date. Moreover, Egypt ruled Canaan from 1457 to 1207 BC (approximately dates). So, any Exodus between these dates would be like going from Egypt to Egypt. It is pointless.

Contemporary archaeological records such as the Amarna letters indicate a major disruption in Canaan blamed on a people referred to as the ‘Apiru or Habiru (Exodus 9:1). Discoveries also include evidence of cities such as Jericho being conquered during that timeframe. All this contributes to the assumption that 1446 BC is the most likely date of the exodus from Egypt.

The Amarna Letters span a period c. 1360–1332 BC. They suggest the Exodus before these dates but not necessarily in 1446 BC.

The exodus occurred in 1590 BC.

Close enough. I think it took place with the expulsion of the Hyksos around 1540 BC (+50). Perhaps you can adjust your calculations.

There is no reason not to accept Bishop Ussher's dates and people have for over 500 years now.

Ussher dates the Exodus in 1490 BC., close enough to the expulsion of the Hyksos (-50).

Or do you find 1225 BC more convincing based on Exodus 1:11

There is biblical and archeological evidence to support this date. The foremost scholar F.W. Albright is one of those who suggested this date.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

This date is based on 1Ki 6:1, ignoring biblical statements that Israelites lived in Egypt for 430 years and the Judges ruled for 450 years. Archeology debunks this date. Moreover, Egypt ruled Canaan from 1457 to 1207 BC (approximately dates). So, any Exodus between these dates would be like going from Egypt to Egypt. It is pointless.


There is biblical and archeological evidence to support this date.

"ignoring biblical statement"? Really? You dismiss what the Bible says and go with secular historians? I have already shown how ALL the various dates given throughout Scripture are consistent and accurate and lead to the ACTUAL dates for these events. You can not just simply dismiss the Bible.

And the big elephant in the room is that any date for the Exodus MUST also be confirmed to be the first year of a Sabbatical cycle. God gave instructions to the Israelites to begin this cycle in the year of the Exodus.

 

[Yarddog]

The exodus occurred in 1590 BC.

Here's how this is reckoned:

Solomon's Temple was destroyed in 586 BC. The wrongdoing of the house of Israel lasted 390 years (Eze. 4:5). This puts Jeroboam's idolatry (1 Ki. 12:25–33) at 976 BC.

Solomon reigned 40 years (1 Ki. 11:42).
David reigned 40 years (1 Ki. 2:11).
Saul reigned 40 years (Acts 13:21).
However, the first few months they reigned counted as their first year, even if it wasn't a full year. For example, if Solomon reigned from April 1015 to December 976 BC, the eight months from April 1015 to December 1015 count as his first regnal year. This makes it possible to reign 40 "years" in only 39 calendar years.

Jeroboam's idolatry (976 BC) + 39(3) years = Saul's accession (1093 BC)

God gave Israel judges about the space of 450 years until Samuel the prophet (Acts 13:20 KJV). This puts the conquest of Canaan at 1543 BC.

Forty-five years had passed since Moses sent Caleb from Kadesh-barnea to explore the land of Canaan (Josh. 14:7–10).
The time that it took for the Israelites to come from Kadesh-barnea until they crossed over the Wadi Zered was 38 years (Deut. 2:14).
Conquest of Canaan (1543 BC) + 7 years = exploration of the land of Canaan (1550 BC)

And since the Israelites wandered in the wilderness for 40 years (Josh. 5:6). This puts the exodus at 1590 BC.

My belief of the time is close to yours but mine is closer to 1575-70. The pharaoh's names ended with Moses during this period with Ahmoses meaning "brother of Moses", according to the Jewish Virtual Library.

 

[SuperCow]

That's ok if you don't see it that way. Doesn't mean it's not true. One of the big clues is the two 40 year periods of peace. If someone is so inclined, take some time and map out exactly where the judges judged. It will be enlightening.

I found this. They're from all over. Not sure what it proves.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

View attachment 330999
I found this. They're from all over. Not sure what it proves.

Well, without a source or context or a timeline, that doesn't prove anything.

 

[SuperCow]

I'll expand on that map:

1.) Othniel - Delivered Israel from Aram. (From the south, defending from the north)
2.) Ehud - Delivered Israel from Moab. (Central, defending from the southeast)
3.) Shamgar - Attacked Philistines. (Location on this map indicates they don't know which tribe he was from, but Philistines were to the west)
4.) Deborah/Barak - Delivered from the Canaanites. (From the south defending from the north. Bible says Naphtali & Zebulun)
5.) Gideon - Delivered from the Midianites. (Central defending from the south)
6.) Abimelech - Civil War
7.) Tola - Doesn't say
8.) Jair - Doesn't say
9.) Jephthah - Fought the Ammonites (and a skirmish with Ephraim)
10.) Ibzan - Doesn't say
11.) Elon - Doesn't say
12.) Abdon - Doesn't say
13.) Samson - Attacked Philistines
14.) Eli (not in the map)
15.) Samuel (not in the map)

I don't see anything in the geography to support parallel judgeships.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

I'll expand on that map:

1.) Othniel - Delivered Israel from Aram. (From the south, defending from the north)
2.) Ehud - Delivered Israel from Moab. (Central, defending from the southeast)
3.) Shamgar - Attacked Philistines. (Location on this map indicates they don't know which tribe he was from, but Philistines were to the west)
4.) Deborah/Barak - Delivered from the Canaanites. (From the south defending from the north. Bible says Naphtali & Zebulun)
5.) Gideon - Delivered from the Midianites. (Central defending from the south)
6.) Abimelech - Civil War
7.) Tola - Doesn't say
8.) Jair - Doesn't say
9.) Jephthah - Fought the Ammonites (and a skirmish with Ephraim)
10.) Ibzan - Doesn't say
11.) Elon - Doesn't say
12.) Abdon - Doesn't say
13.) Samson - Attacked Philistines
14.) Eli (not in the map)
15.) Samuel (not in the map)

I don't see anything in the geography to support parallel judgeships.

I don't know where you are getting this map from. The few numbers I checked are not correct according to the narratives. In addition, there is no indication of timeline. So really, the map could never give you an accurate understanding.

 

[Andrewn]

My belief of the time is close to yours but mine is closer to 1575-70. The pharaoh's names ended with Moses during this period with Ahmoses meaning "brother of Moses", according to the Jewish Virtual Library.

Do you believe that the Israelites departed a few decades before the Hyksos, at the same time as the Hyksos, or a few decades after the Hyksos? Which scenario makes more sense to you?

 

[Yarddog]

Do you believe that the Israelites departed a few decades before the Hyksos, at the same time as the Hyksos, or a few decades after the Hyksos? Which scenario makes more sense to you?

Josephus said that the Hykos were ancestors of the people of Israel. It makes sense to me that they were the Israelites of Exodus. The volcano on Santorini exploded about the same time and would explain many of the things God brought down on Egypt.

 

[Andrewn]

Josephus said that the Hykos were ancestors of the people of Israel. It makes sense to me that they were the Israelites of Exodus. The volcano on Santorini exploded about the same time and would explain many of the things God brought down on Egypt.

I agree.

 

[Yarddog]

I agree.

Another clue is the baptism of Jesus. There was a reason that it was necessary for him to be baptized and it was to fulfill prophecy.

The flood was shadow of baptism. When God washed away the sins of the world. It began to rain 1600 years after creation and after Adam and Eve were cast out of Eden, which represents righteousness. The Tree of knowledge is the Law and Adam and Eve eating it's fruit is placing themselves under the Law as the Israelites did after leaving Egypt.

Jesus was baptized about 25-30AD. 1600 years before that time would be 1575-1570 BC.

 

[SuperCow]

I don't know where you are getting this map from. The few numbers I checked are not correct according to the narratives. In addition, there is no indication of timeline. So really, the map could never give you an accurate understanding.

This is the web site:

The Judges By Their Tribes | IBible Maps

It was the first good map that came up from a Google search of "Tribes of the judges".