Dating as "friends first" usually don't work out

[ThisIsMe123]

I got into a debate with someone regarding "friends first" dating, he says it's pretty flawed because women who express this method of dating are damaged and had been hurt in the past.

Also, if a guy tends to hold out in a non-intimate fashion with a woman of his choosing, another man may be quick to swoop her up and marry her.

A problem with friends first is that the women employing it are doing it because they’re trying avoid getting hurt, but in reality it tends to select for guys looking for damaged women and it does nothing to actually guarantee that she will be compatible with him in the long term. You’re right there are exceptions to that, but the majority of the time if you date a woman looking for friends first it will not work out, if only because dating is inherently a process of excluding those people you aren’t compatible with as opposed to one where you look for or grasp at reasons to stay.

As to friends first women not being at risk of being scooped up, you’re mistaken. Since you’re just friends with her, you have no reason to expect that she’s immune to feeling strong chemistry with someone else or that she isn’t keeping a stable of guys she is “just friends” with who may be further down the path with. In short the approach doesn’t actually protect your interests the way you think it does.

He also expressed men who do this will wind up in the friend zone or alone for very long periods of time while they are just wasting their energy on a woman of their interest.

Read on...

That makes sense in a limited context where people are not competing for the same resources. You however do not live in that world. The problem with waiting is that other people wont and dont have to.

Potential partners who would have been good for you, will be scooped up by other people. People youre building attraction to will decide to move on because you havent made a move and therefore arent interested or arent available for some reason.

From a rational, protecting yourself from rejection perspective, it makes perfect sense to wait and try and build attraction. In the real world however, that strategy tends to result in loneliness and unhappiness because other people have options and dont have to wait for you to be 100% certain of the outcome.

Ask him/her out or stay single. Those really are the two options you have. Delaying asking, doesnt tend to improve the chances of a yes and if anything tends to ruin your chances. (e.g. friendzoning)

 

[Jonaitis]

"You liked me? It seemed like you just wanted to be friendly. I have something to tell you...I've been talking to this other guy this whole time, he really likes me..."

Ouch, I remember that. Friends first doesn't always come out evenly baked as you hope...

 

[Theo Barnsley]

If she dosnt "give out" by the 3rd date your basically wasting your time!

 

[timewerx]

At the very least, make your intentions clear enough at the beginning. Not only it saves time and guess work, it's also the honest thing to do.

 

[HTacianas]

I got into a debate with someone regarding "friends first" dating, he says it's pretty flawed because women who express this method of dating are damaged and had been hurt in the past.

Also, if a guy tends to hold out in a non-intimate fashion with a woman of his choosing, another man may be quick to swoop her up and marry her.

A problem with friends first is that the women employing it are doing it because they’re trying avoid getting hurt, but in reality it tends to select for guys looking for damaged women and it does nothing to actually guarantee that she will be compatible with him in the long term. You’re right there are exceptions to that, but the majority of the time if you date a woman looking for friends first it will not work out, if only because dating is inherently a process of excluding those people you aren’t compatible with as opposed to one where you look for or grasp at reasons to stay.

As to friends first women not being at risk of being scooped up, you’re mistaken. Since you’re just friends with her, you have no reason to expect that she’s immune to feeling strong chemistry with someone else or that she isn’t keeping a stable of guys she is “just friends” with who may be further down the path with. In short the approach doesn’t actually protect your interests the way you think it does.

He also expressed men who do this will wind up in the friend zone or alone for very long periods of time while they are just wasting their energy on a woman of their interest.

Read on...

That makes sense in a limited context where people are not competing for the same resources. You however do not live in that world. The problem with waiting is that other people wont and dont have to.

Potential partners who would have been good for you, will be scooped up by other people. People youre building attraction to will decide to move on because you havent made a move and therefore arent interested or arent available for some reason.

From a rational, protecting yourself from rejection perspective, it makes perfect sense to wait and try and build attraction. In the real world however, that strategy tends to result in loneliness and unhappiness because other people have options and dont have to wait for you to be 100% certain of the outcome.

Ask him/her out or stay single. Those really are the two options you have. Delaying asking, doesnt tend to improve the chances of a yes and if anything tends to ruin your chances. (e.g. friendzoning)

Why does that sound like it's only a way for a woman to get free dinner?


<ducks quickly behind the couch>

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

It's not a good idea to go the let's just be friends route with a woman you want something more with. The type of time commitment you are looking at for the tiny hope she will view you in a romantic way once she sees how great of a guy you are is naive and shows a serious scarcity mindset. No one is special, once a person realizes whatever you like in this woman you can find in another woman who is willing to interact with you under romantic terms than just platonic, then guys would never go for the let's just be friends route if they didn't have such a scarcity mindset with women.

 

[ThisIsMe123]

It's not a good idea to go the let's just be friends route with a woman you want something more with. The type of time commitment you are looking at for the tiny hope she will view you in a romantic way once she sees how great of a guy you are is naive and shows a serious scarcity mindset. No one is special, once a person realizes whatever you like in this woman you can find in another woman who is willing to interact with you under romantic terms than just platonic, then guys would never go for the let's just be friends route if they didn't have such a scarcity mindset with women.

Don't confuse "Let's just be friends" with "friends first". Big difference. Unless that's what you were meaning, yes?

I've seen quite a few dating profiles that have even in their headlines, "Friends first"...in the profile, "..and let's see what happens".

Regardless...I am kind of intrigued by the responses on a Christian site, as I have noticed that it's mostly the devout Christian communities that go the friends first route. They have touted the book, '"How I kissed dating good-bye" as a comparison to proper courtship which is outdated obviously. But it seems to fall in line with the "friends first" route.

Although, I do agree, if you are a man and attracted to said woman, its best to make it known up front.

Man, dating is such a mine field.

 

[Niels]

At the very least, make your intentions clear enough at the beginning. Not only it saves time and guess work, it's also the honest thing to do.

The problem is, you don't necessarily know enough about her to have clear intentions early on. There are lots of pretty women out there who make pretty awful girlfriends. I like to know a little more about who I'm dealing with before I can honestly say that I'm interested. There at least has to be some kind of friendship, or obvious potential for friendship, to be worth my time. Sure, I might think she's hot the first time we meet, but physical attractiveness isn't enough to get me interested. Unless you're hooking up for a one night stand, which isn't my intent, being friends first is preferable.

The OP is talking about a lopsided situation, in which one person is interested and the other isn't. That's almost guaranteed fail, but it's not what I think of when I talk about being friends first.

I can't recall the last time I felt friendzoned. Then again, I don't put women on a pedestal, and my time is valuable. The idea of waiting my turn with women who keep a "stable of guys" who are "further along" some sort of path with her doesn't appeal to me. More like friendship + mutual attraction is how I roll. If the interest isn't mutual, then I'm not interested in dating her.

 

[timewerx]

The problem is, you don't necessarily know enough about her to have clear intentions early on. There are lots of pretty women out there who make pretty awful girlfriends.

That's easy, look them up on facebook. If you know what you're looking for in someone's profile, you can find out what type of person they are.

Even companies do this to do some background investigation. There's "science" behind this or at least you'll know if their life's principles matches yours.

 

[Citanul]

How is "friends first" dating supposed to work? If it's spending time together getting to know each other without venturing into territory more associated with being a couple (so doing things like keeping physical contact to a minimum and only getting together in public) then is it really that different from dating but taking things slowly?

 

[SleepingAtLast]

I wouldn't want to date someone that I didn't have good chemistry with for very long anyway. I can see just getting to know someone as friends and then asking them out later down the road, but I don't get the idea of dating yet calling yourself friends. To me one would only settle for that because they think the other person is doing them a favor by "dating" them, which only demonstrates a lack of self-respect.

 

[com7fy8]

Each woman is unique; so I would not put dating her into one or two general categories, but discover her and how we are relating, then go with what this means.

I would not get too busy with a woman I do not know. I would see if we grow to trust one another and share personally, and go with how this continues or not.

It looks as though ones go out and even get isolated with dates they do not even trust. I think first is not what label you put on some method, like being friends or being dates or whatever, but first go with if you have come to really trust a person and that person deeply trusts you. Before this, you have nothing of a commitment to talk about, I would think.

And once you trust each other, you can talk about what each of you is feeling and if there is someone else. And because you appreciate and admire the person, you are glad if he or she works out with someone else, because you love your neighbor as yourself.

But in case we do not love others as ourselves, but we are competing, even, no method is going to turn out well.

 

[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

*Blindpost* The very term "dating" and just "friends" don't go together any way. So the whole premise is faulty to begin with.

 

[com7fy8]

*Blindpost* The very term "dating" and just "friends" don't go together any way. So the whole premise is faulty to begin with.

Yes, this is a blind post. It has been clarified how ones do not mean "just friends" for an ongoing relationship, but they mean "friends first" while ones are dating, before they get more romantic and hands-on and committed, or even starting to consider marriage.

I think it is good to get to know someone, first, before going out. Or, at least make yourselves clear about why you are going out. And in groups with other Christians we can get to know our brothers and sisters, and grow in our standard of how to relate in His love as family, not hurrying to be isolating in dating.

We are growing . . . by the way . . . in Jesus. So, how someone is now could soon be out of date!

And how you are capable of seeing and understanding another person will become out of date, after not too long, hopefully, because of how our Father keeps growing us to more and better in His love.

So, I think it is good . . . wise . . . to become able to pray and make sure with God about how He wants us to share with each brother and sister.

That is another thing > if a lady is my own Jesus sister, why would I not want to go places with her, just to share with my own sister . . . and with others, too? Why would I want to put her in some category where she has to stay, and maybe I have legalistic demands about who I assume she is, and if I can use her or not, and what she has to do or can't do?????

If a lady is my own sister, this is above all else . . . already. In God's love . . . family caring and sharing love of our Father and Jesus our Groom > we are intimate > "tenderhearted" (in Ephesians 4:31-32). This is right in the Bible; it might be good to read in God's word about how all of us Jesus family people do well to share with one another > all of us together > not only hurrying to get isolated in dating ones we don't even know.

 

[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

Yes, this is a blind post. It has been clarified how ones do not mean "just friends" for an ongoing relationship, but they mean "friends first" while ones are dating, before they get more romantic and hands-on and committed, or even starting to consider marriage.

I think it is good to get to know someone, first, before going out. Or, at least make yourselves clear about why you are going out. And in groups with other Christians we can get to know our brothers and sisters, and grow in our standard of how to relate in His love as family, not hurrying to be isolating in dating.

We are growing . . . by the way . . . in Jesus. So, how someone is now could soon be out of date!

And how you are capable of seeing and understanding another person will become out of date, after not too long, hopefully, because of how our Father keeps growing us to more and better in His love.

So, I think it is good . . . wise . . . to become able to pray and make sure with God about how He wants us to share with each brother and sister.

That is another thing > if a lady is my own Jesus sister, why would I not want to go places with her, just to share with my own sister . . . and with others, too? Why would I want to put her in some category where she has to stay, and maybe I have legalistic demands about who I assume she is, and if I can use her or not, and what she has to do or can't do?????

If a lady is my own sister, this is above all else . . . already. In God's love . . . family caring and sharing love of our Father and Jesus our Groom > we are intimate > "tenderhearted" (in Ephesians 4:31-32). This is right in the Bible; it might be good to read in God's word about how all of us Jesus family people do well to share with one another > all of us together > not only hurrying to get isolated in dating ones we don't even know.

in my opinion, dating by it's very nature means something more than just friends. that's all i was saying. i realize there are gradual levels that people go thru to experience more closeness and intimacy. but to me, that's within a relationship that both parties have agreed to be more than just friends.

 

[com7fy8]

in my opinion, dating by it's very nature means something more than just friends. that's all i was saying. i realize there are gradual levels that people go thru to experience more closeness and intimacy. but to me, that's within a relationship that both parties have agreed to be more than just friends.

not bad for someone who does blind posts ! ! !

I am sure ones have various reasons for dating. Unfortunately, some number are looking for who they can just use for what they want. And ones are judging only or mainly by looks, not by what cooks in the character of another person.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Concerning the Friends first thing. I think it does work, but here's the catch I think it only works if you got a lot of physical attractiveness, a good job and other things like that working in your favor.
For people who are more average, or have challenges then I think it is a ticket "to the friend zone" of being permanently classified as a purely platonic relationship.

 

[timewerx]

How is "friends first" dating supposed to work? If it's spending time together getting to know each other without venturing into territory more associated with being a couple (so doing things like keeping physical contact to a minimum and only getting together in public) then is it really that different from dating but taking things slowly?

That's a nice way of saying it.

There are some who may not want being friends first, especially if there is mutual interest. It's not something they'd be proud to announce to their friends!

So it could backfire and might lose interest.

 

[ThisIsMe123]

Concerning the Friends first thing. I think it does work, but here's the catch I think it only works if you got a lot of physical attractiveness, a good job and other things like that working in your favor.
For people who are more average, or have challenges then I think it is a ticket "to the friend zone" of being permanently classified as a purely platonic relationship.

I think by reading all these responses...there's no one-size fits all answer to this.

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

Don't confuse "Let's just be friends" with "friends first". Big difference. Unless that's what you were meaning, yes?

I've seen quite a few dating profiles that have even in their headlines, "Friends first"...in the profile, "..and let's see what happens".

Regardless...I am kind of intrigued by the responses on a Christian site, as I have noticed that it's mostly the devout Christian communities that go the friends first route. They have touted the book, '"How I kissed dating good-bye" as a comparison to proper courtship which is outdated obviously. But it seems to fall in line with the "friends first" route.

Although, I do agree, if you are a man and attracted to said woman, its best to make it known up front.

Man, dating is such a mine field.

Maybe calling it "friends first" makes the woman feel comfortable but it's really just dating with a name that frees her of having the responsibilities of a relationship like having to break up. Friends first sounds nonsensical either you two are seeing eachother or you aren't. There is no friends first.

I also wouldn't date someone too afraid to call it like it is, because to me that shows they are way too fearful and guarded to be a reliable partner in my opinion.