Cursed is everyone who hangs on the Tree

[Yodas_Prodigy]

Some of our friends like to link Yeshua to sin by calling him cursed because of his being hung on a tree. They take this idea from:

Galatians 3:13 (New American Standard Bible)
13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us--for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE"--

But what is really meant by being cursed? It certainly is not synonymous with "became sin" as defined by some of our friends in 2 Corinthians 5. I have pointed out before that 2 Corinthians 5:17-21 is imputation. Yeshua's righteousness was imputed to us. Our sins were imputed to Yeshua. In other words, Yeshua's righteousness was credited to us believers and our sins were credited to him.

Let us look at what YWHW's word says about being cursed:

Deuteronomy 21: 22"If a man has committed a sin worthy of death and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, 23his corpse shall not hang all night on the tree, but you shall surely bury him on the same day (for he who is hanged is accursed of God), so that you do not defile your land which the LORD your God gives you as an inheritance.

Now notice here, if a man has committed a sin worthy of death, he should be hung on a tree. We know that Yeshua committed no sin. It is clear that Shaul (Paul) used "cursed" as another example of imputation. Man's sins that were worthy of his death were credited to Yeshua who paid the price. And we all know the truth that Yeshua died on the tree and was not allowed to hang all night long.

John 19:30-38 (New American Standard Bible)
30Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.
31Then the Jews, because it was the day of preparation, so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
32So the soldiers came, and broke the legs of the first man and of the other who was crucified with Him;
33but coming to Jesus, when they saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs. ...
38After these things Joseph of Arimathea, being a disciple of Jesus, but a secret one for fear of the Jews, asked Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus; and Pilate granted permission. So he came and took away His body.

Here we have it. The clear meaning of "cursed" was that a man who had committed sin was hung on a tree. Yeshua committed no sin. He took the curse for all who believe upon him. 2 Corinthians 5:17-21 and Galataians 3:13 are linked in this idea, IMPUTATION.


Blessings

 

[New_Wineskin]

Here we have it. The clear meaning of "cursed" was that a man who had committed sin was hung on a tree. Yeshua committed no sin. He took the curse for all who believe upon him. 2 Corinthians 5:17-21 and Galataians 3:13 are linked in this idea, IMPUTATION.

I can't debate that .

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Trouble with this approach... you forgot that these verses are also linked to Ephesians 2:1-6

Ephesians 2:1-6
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; )
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

You cannot quicken us together with Him if He is not first together with us in the same state. He became one with us so that when the Father raised Him, we would come up together with Him.



Romans 6:1-4
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

When we were baptised into Christ we were baptised into His death.
What death? Not physical. The physical death and resurrection of Jesus did not bring the new birth. It was His spiritual resurrection. When we believe into the death and resurrection of Jesus we believe into the operation of God when He raised up Jesus from spiritual death.

Nothing could be clearer than this from Col 2:

Colossians 2:12-13
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

This is not talking about the future resurrection of the body. This is the past tense quickening of our spirits TOGETHER with His when the Father rose Him from the dead. It is only because He unitied Himself together with us first in death that we could come up together with Him.

Even the famous John 3 :16 hints at this operation of God. When Jesus speaks of that same new birth, He tells Himself being raised up like a serpent. All who gaze expentently upon the serpent are given life for it... not healing. LIFE!

John 3:14-17
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in (GK =into) him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in (GK = into) him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

We receive eternal life (i.e. born again with HIS life) by believing into the death burial and resurrection of Jesus (i.e. the operation of God when He raised Him up).


Numbers 21:8-9
8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

There is much more.
(please note I am not quoting hagin or copeland here... I am quoting Jesus and Paul.)

 

[Yodas_Prodigy]

Trouble with this approach... you forgot that these verses are also linked to Ephesians 2:1-6

Ephesians 2:1-6
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; )
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

You cannot quicken us together with Him if He is not first together with us in the same state. He became one with us so that when the Father raised Him, we would come up together with Him.

Ephesians 2

Made Alive in Christ

1And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,

2in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
3Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
4But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

Hello D,

The first weakness in your position is to assume that Yeshua HAD TO identify with every aspect of man. That flaw is what leads you to read your presupposition in to this text. Yeshua was already alive. He died physically. He had no spiritual falleness in him. He rose from the dead, physically. Note the words "us" and "together". Perhaps changing the word order would help out..."made us together alive with Christ"....It was the "us" who were quickened.

 

[Yodas_Prodigy]

Romans 6:1-4
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

When we were baptised into Christ we were baptised into His death.
What death? Not physical. The physical death and resurrection of Jesus did not bring the new birth. It was His spiritual resurrection. When we believe into the death and resurrection of Jesus we believe into the operation of God when He raised up Jesus from spiritual death.

You again are reading your presupposition in to the text. I can show you two dozen verses that tell us that it was the blood that paid our debt, "Nothing but the blood of Jesus." [Great Song]

And our debt was nailed to the cross. Not in Hell.

Let me try it this way,

2 Corinthians 13

1This is the third time I am coming to you EVERY FACT IS TO BE CONFIRMED BY THE TESTIMONY OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES. (Emphasis the Bible)

This is a principle. Now, can you show where Christ was made sin in two or three verses (2 Corinthians 5:21)? Can you show where scripture says that Jesus had to die spiritually in two or three verses?

 

[Yodas_Prodigy]

Even the famous John 3 :16 hints at this operation of God. When Jesus speaks of that same new birth, He tells Himself being raised up like a serpent. All who gaze expentently upon the serpent are given life for it... not healing. LIFE!

John 3:14-17
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in (GK =into) him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in (GK = into) him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

We receive eternal life (i.e. born again with HIS life) by believing into the death burial and resurrection of Jesus (i.e. the operation of God when He raised Him up).


Numbers 21:8-9
8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

This is another assumption D. The only point that Yeshua was making was that he was to be lifted up. BTW, the brass serpent was brass. It wasn't even a serpent. If your analogy were supposed to work, YHWH should have had a live serpent on the stick.

Where I do agree is this, the death (physical) and buriel and resurrection (from physical death) is what paid for our eternal life.

 

[Yodas_Prodigy]

This is a principle. Now, can you show where Christ was made sin in two or three verses (2 Corinthians 5:21)?

BTW, 2 Corinthians 5:21 won't help you.

As any Hebrew scholar will tell you, the Hebrew language uses the word chatta’t, which means both “sin” and “sin offering”.

When the Seventy translated the Septuagint, they picked the Greek word harmatia (sin, sin offering) where it was explicitly meant for sin offering. Scripture clearly teaches, from OT through NT, that the Atonement was a sin offering imputed to the one that had faith in it.

When Paul was speaking of sin in 2 Cor 5:21, he was intending sin-offering. The context demands it. The O.T. sacrifice confirms it. It all goes back to imputation.

2 Cor 5:16-21
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God. 21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
NKJV

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Ephesians 2

Made Alive in Christ

1And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,

2in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
3Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
4But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

Hello D,

The first weakness in your position is to assume that Yeshua HAD TO identify with every aspect of man. That flaw is what leads you to read your presupposition in to this text. Yeshua was already alive. He died physically. He had no spiritual falleness in him. He rose from the dead, physically. Note the words "us" and "together". Perhaps changing the word order would help out..."made us together alive with Christ"....It was the "us" who were quickened.

But you did not solve your problem.
1. We were quickened together with Christ.
You cannot be quickened together with Christ unless you are both dead together to start with.
2. There is not a single word in these verses that suggest anything about physical death. To the contrary, the verses refer to spiritual death exclusively:

"you were dead in your trespasses and sins..."

Unless you are currently physically dead, this would not pertain to you.

"spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience..."

This was the spirit that worked in us... "

"were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest...."

This was the nature that we had before the spiritual quickening..."

"when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ "

Your problem remains... first off this is all past tense. This has already been done. If it were physical, then we would all be raised physically. Not so. Christ was made one with us in dead, thereafter we quickened together with Him.
You cannot escape the fact that we were (you, me, and Christ) were all quickened TOGETHER. The only way you can do that, it to have us all dead together to start with.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

You again are reading your presupposition in to the text. I can show you two dozen verses that tell us that it was the blood that paid our debt, "Nothing but the blood of Jesus." [Great Song]

And our debt was nailed to the cross. Not in Hell.

Let me try it this way,

2 Corinthians 13

1This is the third time I am coming to you EVERY FACT IS TO BE CONFIRMED BY THE TESTIMONY OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES. (Emphasis the Bible)

This is a principle. Now, can you show where Christ was made sin in two or three verses (2 Corinthians 5:21)? Can you show where scripture says that Jesus had to die spiritually in two or three verses?

Please note: I did not say anything about the paying any debt. Perhaps you had someone else in mind. Jesus was not made sin for us to pay for sins. He was made one with us so that we could be made the righteousness of God when God raised us up together with Him.

All I said was that we were quickened up together with Him. He became one with us, not for any sort of punishment, but so that when God raised Him (the head) from spiritual death, we (the body) would be raised with Him.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

This is another assumption D. The only point that Yeshua was making was that he was to be lifted up. BTW, the brass serpent was brass. It wasn't even a serpent. If your analogy were supposed to work, YHWH should have had a live serpent on the stick.

Where I do agree is this, the death (physical) and buriel and resurrection (from physical death) is what paid for our eternal life.

But his is not what the scriptures say. The suffering and death of Jesus did pay for sins. But that is not what gave us the new birth. It was the resurrection that gave us the new birth:

1Pe 1:3
3 Blessed is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who, according to the abundance of His kindness did beget us again to a living hope, through the rising again of Jesus Christ out of the dead,

Jesus spoke to this

John 6:
What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.


1 Peter 3:18 (KJV)
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit.

Where the King James says "by the Spirit," actually the Greek says "in the Spirit."

1 Peter 3:18
18 Because even Christ once suffered concerning sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God; indeed being put to death in flesh, but quickened in Spirit;

The word quickened in this verse has some interesting comments by Barnes:
But quickened - Made alive - ζοωποιηθεὶς zoōpoiētheis. This does not mean “kept alive,” but “made alive; recalled to life; reanimated.” The word is never used in the sense of maintained alive, or preserved alive. Compare the following places, which are the only ones in which it occurs in the New Testament: Joh_5:21 (twice); Joh_6:63; Rom_4:17; Rom_8:11; 1Co_15:36, 1Co_15:45; 1Ti_6:13; 1Pe_3:18; in all which it is rendered “quickened, quicken, quickeneth;” 1Co_15:22, “be made alive;” 2Co_3:6, “giveth life;” and Gal_3:21, “have given life.” “Once the word refers to God, as he who giveth life to all creatures, 1Ti_6:13; three times it refers to the life-giving power of the Holy Spirit, or of the doctrines of the gospel, Joh_6:63; 2Co_3:6; Gal_3:21; seven times it is used with direct reference to the raising of the dead, Joh_5:21; Rom_4:17; Rom_8:11; 1Co_15:22, 1Co_15:36, 1Co_15:45; 1Pe_3:18.” See Biblical Repos., April, 1845, p. 269. See also Passow, and Robinson, Lexicon. The sense, then, cannot be that, in reference to his soul or spirit, he was preserved alive when his body died, but that there was some agency or power restoring him to life, or reanimating him after he was dead.

And the phrase "in the spirit" also has some good comments by Barnes:
By the Spirit - According to the common reading in the Greek, this is τῷ Πνεύματι tō Pneumati - with the article the - “the Spirit.” Hahn, Tittman, and Griesbach omit the article, and then the reading is, “quickened in spirit;” and thus the reading corresponds with the former expression, “in flesh” (σαρκὶ sarki,) where the article also is lacking.


It is obvious in all this that Jesus suffered two deaths here. One in the flesh for sins and one in the spirit for life. The spiritual death was not undertaken for punishment, rather it was undertaken for life, so that when Jesus the head was raised, we would be raised together with Him.

 

[Yodas_Prodigy]

But you did not solve your problem.
1. We were quickened together with Christ.
You cannot be quickened together with Christ unless you are both dead together to start with.
2. There is not a single word in these verses that suggest anything about physical death. To the contrary, the verses refer to spiritual death exclusively:

"you were dead in your trespasses and sins..."

Unless you are currently physically dead, this would not pertain to you.

"spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience..."

This was the spirit that worked in us... "

"were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest...."

This was the nature that we had before the spiritual quickening..."

"when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ "

Your problem remains... first off this is all past tense. This has already been done. If it were physical, then we would all be raised physically. Not so. Christ was made one with us in dead, thereafter we quickened together with Him.
You cannot escape the fact that we were (you, me, and Christ) were all quickened TOGETHER. The only way you can do that, it to have us all dead together to start with.

D, you are still reading your presupposition into the scripture. Quickened simply means, Made alive. We were dead in our trespasses. Christ's physical resurrection is what brings us to newness in life. You need to find scriptures that prove that Jesus became a sinner like us (since you are implying that he was dead in his tresoasses, a child of wrath, a son of disobedience), Separated like us, in need of being Born again like us.

As I said before, I can show you two dozen verses that say the blood was enough. Show me two or three that show Jesus needing to be born again. Show me two or three verses that clearly say that Jesus died spiritually. You can't do it. You have to lean on scriptures that you and others have decided have a meaning that lines up with your template doctrine.

 

[Yodas_Prodigy]

But his is not what the scriptures say. The suffering and death of Jesus did pay for sins. But that is not what gave us the new birth. It was the resurrection that gave us the new birth:

1Pe 1:3
3 Blessed is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who, according to the abundance of His kindness did beget us again to a living hope, through the rising again of Jesus Christ out of the dead,

Jesus spoke to this

John 6:
What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.


1 Peter 3:18 (KJV)
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit.

Where the King James says "by the Spirit," actually the Greek says "in the Spirit."

1 Peter 3:18
18 Because even Christ once suffered concerning sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God; indeed being put to death in flesh, but quickened in Spirit;

The word quickened in this verse has some interesting comments by Barnes:
But quickened - Made alive - ζοωποιηθεὶς zoōpoiētheis. This does not mean “kept alive,” but “made alive; recalled to life; reanimated.” The word is never used in the sense of maintained alive, or preserved alive. Compare the following places, which are the only ones in which it occurs in the New Testament: Joh_5:21 (twice); Joh_6:63; Rom_4:17; Rom_8:11; 1Co_15:36, 1Co_15:45; 1Ti_6:13; 1Pe_3:18; in all which it is rendered “quickened, quicken, quickeneth;” 1Co_15:22, “be made alive;” 2Co_3:6, “giveth life;” and Gal_3:21, “have given life.” “Once the word refers to God, as he who giveth life to all creatures, 1Ti_6:13; three times it refers to the life-giving power of the Holy Spirit, or of the doctrines of the gospel, Joh_6:63; 2Co_3:6; Gal_3:21; seven times it is used with direct reference to the raising of the dead, Joh_5:21; Rom_4:17; Rom_8:11; 1Co_15:22, 1Co_15:36, 1Co_15:45; 1Pe_3:18.” See Biblical Repos., April, 1845, p. 269. See also Passow, and Robinson, Lexicon. The sense, then, cannot be that, in reference to his soul or spirit, he was preserved alive when his body died, but that there was some agency or power restoring him to life, or reanimating him after he was dead.

And the phrase "in the spirit" also has some good comments by Barnes:
By the Spirit - According to the common reading in the Greek, this is τῷ Πνεύματι tō Pneumati - with the article the - “the Spirit.” Hahn, Tittman, and Griesbach omit the article, and then the reading is, “quickened in spirit;” and thus the reading corresponds with the former expression, “in flesh” (σαρκὶ sarki,) where the article also is lacking.


It is obvious in all this that Jesus suffered two deaths here. One in the flesh for sins and one in the spirit for life. The spiritual death was not undertaken for punishment, rather it was undertaken for life, so that when Jesus the head was raised, we would be raised together with Him.

I agree the resurrection is what completes the new birth. But, it is the physical resurrection. Anything else is not covered in scripture, and thus is unbiblical. For Yeshua to have become Satanic and in need to be born again is plainly errant.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

D, you are still reading your presupposition into the scripture. Quickened simply means, Made alive. We were dead in our trespasses. Christ's physical resurrection is what brings us to newness in life. .

Nowhere in the passage is the "physical resurrection referred to. You are adding that.
The doctrine under discussion is the doctrine of Baptisms, and more specifically the baptism into Christ. As the word says, it is the SPIRIT, not the flesh that is quickening. We were quickened in the spirit. Our bodies are still subject death. Believers who have died physically are still dead.
But we have been quickened (past tense) with Christ. TOGETHER. Meaning when the head came up, the body came up with it. Not the physical head of Jesus and the spiritual body the church. The phial bodies of all the believers are not the church. The church is spiritual.

When Jesus said that we believe into Him, He was not talking about believing into His physical death burial and resurrection. We are raised with Christ in the spirit, not the flesh.



Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We were created IN CHRIST JESUS. Not His physical body... His SPIRIT. We are one with Him in spirit, not the flesh. We do not know Him after the flesh, we know Him after the spirit. Our body is not born again. Our body is not the new creature. His physical head is not the head over the body. It is the spirit. Not the flesh.



Mary also mistook the physical resurrection and spiritual resurrection:

Joh 11:23-26
23 Jesus said to her, Your brother will rise again.
24 Martha said to Him, I know that he will rise again in the resurrection in the last day.
25 Jesus said to her, I am the Resurrection and the Life. The one believing into Me, though he die, he shall live.
26 And everyone living and believing into Me shall not die to the age, never! Do you believe this?

Like you, Mary thought Jesus was talking about the physical resurrection. He was not. He was speaking of the spiritual resurrection.

The KJV incorrectly renders the Greek word "eis" = in. It should be rendered "into." We believe INTO His resurrection and we have same eternal life He received. He is the "resurrection and the life." Not merely physical. That is superficial. The life we receive is the life of God: "Eternal life." We receive this life via the act of resurrection... not physical, but spiritual. When we raise up together with Him, we receive the same life He received.

 

[Jedi.Kep]

So nice to see the trolls are out to play today!

Didaskalos, talking to this person is a complete waste of your time. He will not believe anything you have to say and your time is better spent preaching the gospel to someone who will receive it. It's your time and you do with it what you want. I'm just making a suggestion here based on past experience. Blessings to you.

 

[JimB]

So nice to see the trolls are out to play today!

Didaskalos, talking to this person is a complete waste of your time. He will not believe anything you have to say and your time is better spent preaching the gospel to someone who will receive it. It's your time and you do with it what you want. I'm just making a suggestion here based on past experience. Blessings to you.

Well, Jedi, there may be another explanation. Maybe he is right and you are wrong. Maybe his “time would better spent preaching the gospel to someone who will receive it.”

That sword cuts both ways.

~Jim

Remember the weekday and keep it holy.​

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Until and unless things get nasty... I like to present it anyways. People see it over and over... and eventually a little bell goes off. I am sure Yodas_Prodigy thinks the same!
So I will extinguish my knowledge on the subject and then try to part friends. That point may have been passed.

 

[Jedi.Kep]

Well, Jedi, there may be another explanation. Maybe he is right and you are wrong. Maybe his “time would better spent preaching the gospel to someone who will receive it.”

That sword cuts both ways.

~Jim

Remember the weekday and keep it holy.​

Of course you would say that because you come from the same mold he does. Blah, blah, blah. Go play in the river or something.

 

[KingZzub]

No, the fact is that Yoda is posting for the simple reason of starting an argument. He does not want to build up the forum and make it a place of encouragement and edification.

Well, let the trolls have the place... I have better things to do than argue with them. I'd rather listen to dogs baying at midnight than continue more discussions with people who would rather tear down the Word and faith.

 

[JimB]

No, the fact is that Yoda is posting for the simple reason of starting an argument. He does not want to build up the forum and make it a place of encouragement and edification.

Well, let the trolls have the place... I have better things to do than argue with them. I'd rather listen to dogs baying at midnight than continue more discussions with people who would rather tear down the Word and faith.

KingZ, I thought this was a DEBATE forum, not a fellowship forum. We’re supposed to debate here.

And isn’t calling Yoda a “troll” a violation of forum rules?

Flaming

You will not insult, belittle, mock, use derogatory nicknames in reference to other members, or personally attack other members or groups of members. Do not goad another member or start call-out threads. Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christian. Avoid using sarcasm to attempt any of the above. This flaming rule also applies to public religious figures.

If you are flamed, do not respond in-kind. Alert staff to the situation by utilizing the report button.

Maybe an apology is in order.

~Jim

Christianity without signs and wonders is just another religion.​

 

[KingZzub]

Maybe an apology is in order.

~Jim

Apology accepted.