CNN: Biden pulls from Trump’s immigration playbook in election-year twist

[ThatRobGuy]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/04/politics/border-biden-trump-what-matters/index.html

President Joe Biden is pulling from former President Donald Trump’s immigration playbook as he tries to stop a flow of asylum-seekers from around the world who are crossing into the US at the border with Mexico.

Unveiled at the White House on Tuesday, Biden’s new plan to all but shut down the US border to asylum-seekers who cross the border illegally uses executive authority Trump once used to bar people from mostly-Muslim countries from entering the US in 2017 and also to bar most asylum-seekers in 2018 – days after Republicans suffered huge setbacks in midterm elections that year.

It’s an odd, election-year twist, since Biden actually ran his 2020 campaign in part on a promise to revoke those actions, which he did in the months after taking office. Trump’s asylum policy was also blocked by federal courts before Biden revoked it.

In addition to slowing the flow of asylum-seekers, Biden’s action could have the political effect of chipping away at Trump’s lead on the immigration issue and triangulating some middle-ground support, even if it leaves progressives angry.



It would seem as if this could put some staunch Biden supporters in a bit of an "explain yourself" type of pickle with regards to this topic.

While the narrative has often been "Republicans just want to block these types of border measures because they know that if Biden gets tougher on the border, it'll pull the rug out from under the GOP on this issue"...that very sentiment is basically an admission that the GOP's stance on it maybe had a little more popularity than they'd originally thought.

The "Trump is just telling GOP puppets to block Biden's border measures because if he can't campaign on that issue anymore, he may lose" is an acknowledgement of the disconnect between where a portion of the independents and moderates are vs. where the the DNC "conventional wisdom" was on this issue.


Or, to put it more succinctly...if you have to "get tougher on the border" in order to pull the rug out from underneath your opponent because that could be a winning issue for them...perhaps that's a bit telling.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Or, to put it more succinctly...if you have to "get tougher on the border" in order to pull the rug out from underneath your opponent because that could be a winning issue for them...perhaps that's a bit telling.

I'm not sure what your point is - it seems that Biden has changed his policies based on a combination of his policies not being effective (or least being unable to effectively implement them) and public pressure in the face of data showing that ineffectiveness. That, I would say, is a good characteristic for a politician to have. I'd much rather that the President respond to reality (and the will of the people) than double down on a policy that clearly isn't working.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I'm not sure what your point is - it seems that Biden has changed his policies based on a combination of his policies not being effective (or least being unable to effectively implement them) and public pressure in the face of data showing that ineffectiveness. That, I would say, is a good characteristic for a politician to have. I'd much rather that the President respond to reality (and the will of the people) than double down on a policy that clearly isn't working.

But is that a willingness to "respond to reality", or is that merely a "win at all costs" mentality, if it's the latter, the odds of flip-flopping later are higher.

For instance, if strict abortion policy happened to end up being a losing issue in Florida, and Ron DeSantis saw that his hypothetical opponent was gaining in the polls because of that single issue, if he suddenly did a 180 and started pushing a few select pro-choice policies to "take the wind out of their sails", would you trust that to be a "lasting change" after he won? Or would there be some concerns that he'd just revert right back to his old position after he got the W?

Because that's basically what we're talking about here... Biden adopting some republican policies in order to siphon off some "just right of center" votes from Trump. Is that gonna "stick"?

To me, this situation is no different than if Biden all of the sudden took some pro-AR15 stances. It'd be a somewhat flimsy attempt to remove a perceived distinguishing factor that he's afraid is costing him some votes. (if that happened to be an issue moderates were leaning the other way on)

 

[RocksInMyHead]

But is that a willingness to "respond to reality", or is that merely a "win at all costs" mentality, if it's the latter, the odds of flip-flopping later are higher.

Fair, but without being a mind reader, I'm not sure how anyone would know that. Given Biden's prior efforts to pass immigration reform, as well as his statements accompanying this order, I'm inclined to believe that he's sincere. I maintain that the primary objection to Trump's anti-immigration pushes was the rhetoric that he used around them, which Biden was quick to distance himself from. There's a difference between presenting it as "the system is overwhelmed; we need to relieve the pressure until we figure out a more permanent solution" and "immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country."

 

[IceJad]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/04/politics/border-biden-trump-what-matters/index.html

President Joe Biden is pulling from former President Donald Trump’s immigration playbook as he tries to stop a flow of asylum-seekers from around the world who are crossing into the US at the border with Mexico.

Unveiled at the White House on Tuesday, Biden’s new plan to all but shut down the US border to asylum-seekers who cross the border illegally uses executive authority Trump once used to bar people from mostly-Muslim countries from entering the US in 2017 and also to bar most asylum-seekers in 2018 – days after Republicans suffered huge setbacks in midterm elections that year.

It’s an odd, election-year twist, since Biden actually ran his 2020 campaign in part on a promise to revoke those actions, which he did in the months after taking office. Trump’s asylum policy was also blocked by federal courts before Biden revoked it.

In addition to slowing the flow of asylum-seekers, Biden’s action could have the political effect of chipping away at Trump’s lead on the immigration issue and triangulating some middle-ground support, even if it leaves progressives angry.



It would seem as if this could put some staunch Biden supporters in a bit of an "explain yourself" type of pickle with regards to this topic.

While the narrative has often been "Republicans just want to block these types of border measures because they know that if Biden gets tougher on the border, it'll pull the rug out from under the GOP on this issue"...that very sentiment is basically an admission that the GOP's stance on it maybe had a little more popularity than they'd originally thought.

The "Trump is just telling GOP puppets to block Biden's border measures because if he can't campaign on that issue anymore, he may lose" is an acknowledgement of the disconnect between where a portion of the independents and moderates are vs. where the the DNC "conventional wisdom" was on this issue.


Or, to put it more succinctly...if you have to "get tougher on the border" in order to pull the rug out from underneath your opponent because that could be a winning issue for them...perhaps that's a bit telling.

It is not what is being said it is who is saying it. Isn't that politics in America and most of the world. You will never pry an oppies from a staunch BIden supporter nor vise versa from a Trump supporter.

Remember when Trump wanted to force a divestment of TikTok by Bytedance and the democrats scream about it? Guess what Biden passed recently? The exact same. And guess who objected to it? Trump. The irony.

I have been in threads about Biden vs Trump or generally Democrat vs Republican enough to know that neither side ever backs down on their side's "hypocrisy". It's wasted breath trying to get a "yeah you kinda have a point there buddy". But good luck though.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Remember when Trump wanted to force a divestment of TikTok by Bytedance and the democrats scream about it?

Notably, quite a few Democrats later said that Trump was right about TikTok following research and investigation into data privacy issues surrounding the app. And honestly, I don't recall a huge amount of public opposition - what killed Trump's bill was the courts, because due diligence had not been done in determining whether TikTok posed a real threat. Biden revoked the ban via executive order, but also ordered an investigation to determine if there was a threat to national security, which is what Trump should have done in the first place. Once the results of that investigation came in and showed an issue, Biden reinstated the ban.

 

[IceJad]

Notably, quite a few Democrats later said that Trump was right about TikTok following research and investigation into data privacy issues surrounding the app. And honestly, I don't recall a huge amount of public opposition - what killed Trump's bill was the courts, because due diligence had not been done in determining whether TikTok posed a real threat. Biden revoked the ban via executive order, but also ordered an investigation to determine if there was a threat to national security, which is what Trump should have done in the first place. Once the results of that investigation came in and showed an issue, Biden reinstated the ban.

You kinda just proved my point. A staunch supporter will always find a way to defend his/her team. Trump did bad but Biden he did it the right way. So right that his campaign team registered for him in TikTok even though he passed a law to force divestment. Yeah he did things the right way. As long as the timeline hasn't expired why not benefit from it? Security what now?

We have a saying in Cantonese 跌落地揦返拃沙, even when you fall down you grab a fist full of sand. Meaning to save face in the midst of a mistake or accident.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

You kinda just proved my point. A staunch supporter will always find a way to defend his/her team. Trump did bad but Biden he did it the right way.

There's a defined process for such things. Biden followed it. Trump did not. That's simply a statement of fact.

 

[rambot]

It is not what is being said it is who is saying it. Isn't that politics in America and most of the world.

I think his argument is that it is, in fact what (or at least HOW) things are said.

 

[rjs330]

There's a defined process for such things. Biden followed it. Trump did not. That's simply a statement of fact.

Trump followed the proper process fir shutting down the border and the left went nuts. Over what he said as well as what he did. If one removed what was said from the equation would the left have then supported Trumps decision? If Trump simply said, we are being overwhelmed and need to shut down until we figure something out, would the left have simply said it sounds reasonable to them?

I doubt it very much. While I fully support Bidens decision I wish he had done it a lot sooner. This definitely smacks of political haymaking and not a sincere change of position.

And since this us such a hot button issue and the tactic could be used to pull support from Trump, which I know the left supports. Where was the left up until now calling for this? Nowhere. In fact they defended Bidens actions over and over again when this has been going on since he took office. Now during the election year he suddenly dies a about face and left supports it whole heartedly.

Let's all just be honest with ourselves. The hatred is so strong against Trump that Biden could do just about anything staunch conservative and the left would support it. It's the person that matters right now. And I think that goes for both sides.

Trump isn't a strong anti-abirtion candidate, but his supporters support him anyway.

We've all come to the place where ad long as the person supports the majority of our cause we don't care if they waiver on some of if they are old and mentally failing or they are a convicted criminal. All that matters is that the other guy doesn't get in and we will compromise on things to make sure that doesn't happen.

I will say this there is a good possibility I don't vote for president this year. I know what some would say, but I don't care. I'm sick of both these guys. The US gets what they deserve with both of them.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Trump followed the proper process fir shutting down the border and the left went nuts.

Which time was that?

Over what he said as well as what he did. If one removed what was said from the equation would the left have then supported Trumps decision? If Trump simply said, we are being overwhelmed and need to shut down until we figure something out, would the left have simply said it sounds reasonable to them?

I can't speak for the rest of "the left", but I would have been satisfied by that, assuming it was phrased sensibly and came with supporting data. Of course, you'd need to also eliminate all of the anti-immigration rhetoric he'd spent his entire campaign spouting. Context and tone always matters.

Again, the issue with Trump's immigration policy was that it was starting from a position of "immigrants bad!" - that leads reasonable people who disagree with that foundational premise to question the motives behind any moves to restrict immigration. Is there really a problem that warrants closing down the border, or are you just saying that in order to justify the policy that you set out to implement from the beginning?

And since this us such a hot button issue and the tactic could be used to pull support from Trump, which I know the left supports. Where was the left up until now calling for this? Nowhere.

Au contraire, mon frere:

The mayors of five big cities seek a meeting with Biden about how to better manage arriving migrants

The mayors of Chicago, Denver, Houston, Los Angeles and New York are pressing to meet with President Joe Biden about the migrants arriving in their cities.

apnews.com

Nine US Governors Call for Action on Immigration Reform

With Congress locked in debate over immigration, states hundreds of miles from the border are demanding help with an influx of migrants

www.voanews.com

https://www.axios.com/2023/01/20/mayors-immigration-reform-migrants-asylum-seekers

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/03/20/city-migrant-funding-new-york/

I recall much hay being made (even here on the forums) about Eric Adams calling for immigration reform and stricter enforcement after making some very pro-migrant pronouncements early on in his tenure.

In fact they defended Bidens actions over and over again when this has been going on since he took office. Now during the election year he suddenly dies a about face and left supports it whole heartedly.

It's not really a "sudden about-face" though - Biden has been in office for three years now. He spent the first two years trying to implement the relaxed border policy he ran on, but record immigration numbers in 2022 prompted a change - we've seen shifts in his border policies towards stricter enforcement as far back as spring of last year.

 

[IceJad]

There's a defined process for such things. Biden followed it. Trump did not. That's simply a statement of fact.

And which report did Biden based his decision on? You said he ordered an investigation right? May I ask for the prove of the report? As far as I know FTC only started their investigation after the bill was passed. So which investigation and report did the initial bill based on? All I get to read is Congressmen putting forth bill after bill until ultimately Biden signed the ban.

I want to know the statements of FACTS as you would put it. I want to know how Biden did it the right way.

 

[IceJad]

There's a defined process for such things. Biden followed it. Trump did not. That's simply a statement of fact.

I also notice you removed the latter part of my statement where Biden's Tiktok presence didn't seem to be a security concern for a governmental official. If security of foreign control and influence are the main basis of the ban why is he engaging in the very thing that might lead to more of it?

 

[IceJad]

I think his argument is that it is, in fact what (or at least HOW) things are said.

And you would be correct. And by implication the people who supported the current position where previously they were morally outraged are hypocrites. Partisanship shaped their morality not the principle of morality itself. That is my position.

 

[rjs330]

Au contraire, mon frere:

Oh you found 14 people that were either upset that the immigrants were being sent to their cities or wanted help with dealing with them. How many of those 14 were telling Biden to close the border until they got a handle on things?

 

[rjs330]

Of course, you'd need to also eliminate all of the anti-immigration rhetoric he'd spent his entire campaign spouting. Context and tone always matters.

I know right? The left hated Teump.and how he talked therefore his desire to shut the border down because of the unco trolled influx was completely ridiculous. The left loves Biden and so when he wants to shut the border down because of the uncontrolled influx, we'll that's perfectly understandable. Because Biden didn't say mean things.

Again, the issue with Trump's immigration policy was that it was starting from a position of "immigrants bad!"

That's not true. That's what the left wing media and pundits said. Trump wanted to shut down the border because of uncontrolled influx and he's anti immigration. Biden does it and it's a reasonable response. All because Trump said some things people didn't like.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

And which report did Biden based his decision on? You said he ordered an investigation right? May I ask for the prove of the report?

You can ask for it, but it doesn't appear to be public. All I know is that the executive order he issued that rescinded Trump's ban also ordered further investigation (and addressed other potentially problematic applications that Trump's order had ignored). The FTC investigation (which started about a month before the bill was passed, not after) is a separate matter.

Biden Revokes and Replaces Trump Order That Banned TikTok (Published 2021)

The new order calls for a broader review of a number of foreign-controlled applications that could pose a security risk to Americans and their data.

www.nytimes.com

I also notice you removed the latter part of my statement where Biden's Tiktok presence didn't seem to be a security concern for a governmental official. If security of foreign control and influence are the main basis of the ban why is he engaging in the very thing that might lead to more of it?

I didn't "remove" it - I ignored it because it's not particularly relevant. The security concerns posed by TikTok aren't really on an individual level, and either way, the campaign's presence on the app is managed by staffers, not Biden himself. This isn't a personal account, or tied to Biden's personal accounts - that's how any politician's social media is handled (this is a topic that I do have some firsthand knowledge of, thanks to my job).

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Oh you found 14 people that were either upset that the immigrants were being sent to their cities or wanted help with dealing with them. How many of those 14 were telling Biden to close the border until they got a handle on things?

Need a hand with those goalposts? You said no one on the left was calling for immigration reform. I provided some examples.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

All because Trump said some things people didn't like.

Yeah - as I said, context matters. If you're mean and cruel and hateful, it shouldn't exactly be shocking when that colors some peoples' opinions of you and makes them question your motives.

 

[rambot]

And you would be correct. And by implication the people who supported the current position where previously they were morally outraged are hypocrites. Partisanship shaped their morality not the principle of morality itself. That is my oposition.

Personally I'm ambivalent to this move.

According to your logic, of course, Trump supporters love Bidens action here right?