cilice and discipline

[JacksLadder]

Are the cilice and discipline still used in the Catholic church? Dose the cilies really make you leg bleed like in the Davinci code(probably no t but I had to ask.)?

 

[MoNiCa4316]

what is it?

 

[Maggie893]

They aren't officially used in any capacity but who knows what some individuals do. The Church condemns any self-destructive behavior in mortification.

 

[Maggie893]

what is it?

Tools for mortification on the flesh. They caused/increased physical suffering which was in turn offered to Christ as redemptive suffering.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Tools for mortification on the flesh. They caused/increased physical suffering which was in turn offered to Christ as redemptive suffering.

ooh oki.. didn't some of the Saints use something like that? (I'm thinking of St Rose of Lima) so it's not allowed anymore? (or is it allowed, with the permission of a spiritual director..?)

interesting

lol but I think it's not very hard to get suffering, it seems to just come to us most of the time lol so we can offer it to Christ

 

[colleen]

You would need a spiritual adviser to undertake this kinds of discipline, and my guess if you are doing it to the level in the DaVinci code book you are abusing it. Definitely, not a spiritual discipline for just any Catholic, but I believe Blessed Mother Teresa amongst others used it.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

You would need a spiritual adviser to undertake this kinds of discipline,

for sure.. especially because it can become a temptation to pride.. it seems that many spiritual directors favor internal mortification rather than physical, because it's more humble that way, and also less risky.

and my guess if you are doing it to the level in the DaVinci code book you are abusing it.

never saw the movie (only read some of the book), but I can imagine.

Definitely, not a spiritual discipline for just any Catholic, but I believe Blessed Mother Teresa amongst others used it.

I've heard of many Saints doing things like this... they probably had the humility and the spiritual direction

 

[Tonks]

They aren't officially used in any capacity but who knows what some individuals do. The Church condemns any self-destructive behavior in mortification.

Opus Dei still uses them in some capacity.

Direct from their website:

http://www.opusdei.us/sec.php?s=494

Do members of Opus Dei practice mortification?

Like other Catholics, members try to incorporate an element of sacrifice into their lives. In accord with its emphasis on finding God in everyday activities, Opus Dei encourages small sacrifices like carrying out one's duties conscientiously, putting others' needs before one's own, and finding a smile in annoying circumstances. In addition, as recommended by the Catholic Church, members practice small physical mortifications occasionally, such as giving up certain items of food or drink. Within this spirit, numeraries and associates (celibate members) sometimes practice traditional Catholic penances such as using the cilice and discipline. These are practices that Catholics have used for centuries and are commonplace in the lives of the saints, for example: St. Francis of Assisi, St. Thomas More, St. Therese of Lisieux, St. Padre Pio and Blessed Mother Teresa. The motivation for these voluntary penances is to imitate Christ and to join him in his redemptive sacrifice (cf. Matthew 16:24), and they can also be a way to suffer in solidarity with the many poor and deprived people in the world.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

interesting...learn something new every day..

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

I find it quite disturbing. yikes !

 

[JacksLadder]

Interesting... thanks for the info I don't plan on using it but I heard that Mother Teresa did some of this type of practice(probably just rumor). I am assuming those who do do it keep it under wraps.
I wonder if I can offer my suffering from my wife nagging at me to Christ LoL (just joking my wife is great).

 

[Auntie]

What is it exactly?

 

[Maggie893]

Hey Auntie!

Cilice is basically what you've probably heard refered to as a hairshirt. Wiki says:

Being made of rough cloth, generally woven from goats' hair, and worn close to the skin, they would feel very itchy. When worn continuously, it could form a breeding-ground for lice, which would heighten the discomfort.

The purpose is to increase suffering, sacrifice and penance.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

When worn continuously, it could form a breeding-ground for lice, which would heighten the discomfort.

ew lice

just kidding lol. these are serious things we're talking about............

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Cilice is basically what you've probably heard refered to as a hairshirt.

...but cilice and hairshirt are two different things? now I'm confused... lol!

edit:

oki I found out, the word can refer to either the hairshirt, or the thing the OP is referring to.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

this priest explains it very well!!

http://www.opusdei.us/art.php?p=16367



it's about loving God, not loving pain.

and - shouldn't be done without spiritual direction.

I know it might sound very strange at first lol, I once heard my friends talking about how sad it is that some Catholic Saints made themselves suffer in order to worship God, and saw it as almost a "crazy" thing... but it's just about sharing in Christ's suffering... similar to how we offer our every day suffering to God, or fast, or pray when we don't feel like it, or even how some people have the stigmata. It's just in a different degree. Most of us are not called to this sort of extreme form of penance. We shouldn't even want it unless it's given to us by a spiritual director.. we should want to practice interior mortification instead, IMO - for example, being kind to an annoying neighbour, etc. But if anyone is called to this, they should do it with extreme humility and direction and love for God.

 

[Gwendolyn]

Wearing wool is torture enough for me. I wore wool without thinking to a concert a couple nights ago. Six hours in a wool-blend wrap shirt. My skin was going insane.

I'm allergic to wool.

I'm not one for physical disciplines or anything. But the things described here are tame compared to the practices of pre-schism monks I've heard about. I don't have sources so I cannot quote any, sorry. I just remember the stories.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

for inquisitive minds

http://davincicode-opusdei.com/?p=64

good article:
http://www.religious-vocation.com/redemptive_suffering.html

It should again be noted that these mortifications were always done within the context of a religious community (with permission from a superior), or under the direction of a spiritual director. We might also recall that the Saints were careful to do these penances in secret, and even went out of their way to hide such instruments from their own communities. To be considered an average religious, to them, was of far more value than to be highly regarded as an austere aesthetic. Any instance that would draw the praises of men was to be severely shunned. As the Lord reminded Saint Faustina that what pleases Him most, above exterior penances, even above fasting, is the denial of one's own will through obedience to superiors and the rules of the community (which cannot be fully practiced apart from religious vows). A humble and obedient soul before God wins the most graces.

good old wikipedia... useful as always
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortification_in_Roman_Catholic_teaching

wow I'm surprised that St Therese was one of these Saints! I didn't know.

During the later part of the nineteenth century, Saint Thérèse of the Child Jesus, another Doctor of the Church, at three years of age was described by her mother: "Even Thérèse is anxious to practice mortification.” And Thérèse later wrote: "My God, I will not be a saint by halves. I am not afraid of suffering for Thee.” The "Little Flower", famous for her "little way" and love of God -- fasted and used the 'discipline' vigorously, "scourging herself with all the strength and speed of which she was capable, smiling at the crucifix through the tears which bedewed her eyelashes," according to one of her biographers.

(I like researching, what can I say....lol!)

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Wearing wool is torture enough for me. I wore wool without thinking to a concert a couple nights ago. Six hours in a wool-blend wrap shirt. My skin was going insane.

I'm allergic to wool.

I'm not one for physical disciplines or anything. But the things described here are tame compared to the practices of pre-schism monks I've heard about. I don't have sources so I cannot quote any, sorry. I just remember the stories.

I've heard some stories like that too...

There was this priest who did a Mission at our parish. He lived with the desert monks for a year or two (can't remember..) they only ate once a day and got up at night to pray, and their prayers lasted a very long time. I wouldn't survive a week lol.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

St Rose of Lima... might be relevant.. she's such an awesome Saint

http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=446

THIS lovely flower of sanctity, the first canonized Saint of the New World, was born at Lima in 1586. She was christened Isabel, but the beauty of her infant face earned for her the title of Rose, which she ever after bore. As a child, while still in the cradle, her silence under a painful surgical operation proved the thirst for suffering already consuming her heart. At an early age she took service to support her impoverished parents, and worked for them day and night. In spite of hardships and austerities, her beauty ripened with increasing age, and she was much and openly admired. From fear of vanity she cut off her hair, blistered her face with pepper and her hands with lime. For further security she enrolled herself in the Third Order of St. Dominic, took St. Catherine of Siena as her model, and redoubled her penance. Her cell was a garden hut, her couch a box of broken tiles. Under her habit Rose wore a hair-shirt studded with iron nails, while, concealed by her veil, a silver crown armed with ninety points encircled her head. More than once, when she shuddered at the prospect of a night of torture, a voice said, "My Cross was yet more painful." The Blessed Sacrament seemed almost her only food. Her love for it was intense. When the Dutch fleet prepared to attack the town, Rose took her place before the tabernacle, and wept that she was not worthyto die in its defence. All her sufferings were offered for the conversion of sinners, and the thought of the multitudes in hell was ever before her soul. She died A.D. 1617, at the age of thirty-one.