Christ the Eternal Tao

It's so funny you should ask about this book because I just got my copy back from my Philosophy professor. I gave it to him to see what he thought.

He said that the overall premise, that Lao Tzu predicted Christ, was a bit of a stretch.

He also said that he author was very much a fan of the Gospel of John, which made sense to him because he's aware that the E. Orthodox Church is very comfortable with mysticism and the Gospel of John is the most mystical. However, he also found it to be the most anti-Semite Gospel and that didn't sit well with him.


He took a great interest in the appendix which explain the history of the E. Orthodox Church in China, which he said was very interesting.

As for many of the comparisons and much of the writing, he said it was very fascinating to see E. Orthodoxy (something he isn't too familiar with) compared with Lao Tzu and Taoism (something he is fairly familiar with).

In class he explained that the Chinese were always fairly open ended about their search for God. Whereas the pagans in Europe would have named and personified gods, the Chinese were intentionally vague about such things.
In China, they did have the Mandate of Heaven, and the Will of Heaven, however there wasn't a whole lot of talk about what Heaven actually was. All that was said was that if a ruler goes against the Mandate of Heaven, the forces of Heaven would remove that ruler. And for their purposes it worked fairly well, most of China's rulers were not necessarily tyrants.

In the west, you are either a Mormon (aka moron) or a Muslim, or you are Christian. You can't be all three.

But in China, because many of their philosophical and religious schools sort of run together, you can be many different things.

For example someone might be a Neo-Confucian and a Buddhist. Or they might be a Buddhist and a Taoist. Or perhaps your are part Confucian and part Mhoaist (Mow-ist) (not, I'm not referring to Mao, I'm referring to someone who live roughly around the time of Confucious, Mhoa-tzu was the first to preach universal love, in China).

(Edit: Yeah, I spelled it wrong, pronounced (Mow-ist), give me a break on spelling.)

Since Taoism means, "the way" and since the philosophical school of Taoism means, seeking "the way". It's fairly easy to call Christ the Eternal Tao. Since you're basically just saying that He is the Eternal Way, which He is.
Note, however that there's a difference between philosophical Taoism and religious Taoism.

Overall though, my professor said it was a good book and one that he'd recommend. So there you have it. The endorsement of a philosophy professor from a University.

I listened to the podcast quite a while ago. It made me very interested in reading the book. Alas, I have not yet taken the leap.

Command0182 said:

He said that the overall premise, that Lao Tzu predicted Christ, was a bit of a stretch.

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Hieromonk Damascene, speaking in the podcast did not give the impression that Lao Tzu literally predicted Christ, in fact he makes sure not to go there. More to the point, the Tao Te Ching is presented as an imperfect, incomplete foreshadowing of what would later be revealed by Christ.

BYW: http://www.stbarnabasoc.org/tao/

My school library just received my interlibrary loan of The Gurus, The Young Man, and Elder Paisios. So that first for me anyways.

Orthod-cat I have this book do you want to read it? . .

ortho_cat said:

I plan to check out a copy at my local parish this weekend, but thanks for offering! What do you think of the book?

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It puts the Christmas story of Jesus within Chinese tradition. It's very good though its not for beginners.

Command0182 said:

he's aware that the E. Orthodox Church is very comfortable with mysticism and the Gospel of John is the most mystical. However, he also found it to be the most anti-Semite Gospel and that didn't sit well with him.

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I'm surprised to hear a professor say that. I took a few exegesis classes back in the day, and almost every scholarly source I read soundly rebuked the idea that St. John's gospel is anti-semitic, given that most of them believed it was written for Jews expelled from the synagogues. (I have no idea how that sits with Orthodoxy; just sayin' though...)

Also, I've heard nothing but good reviews from people who've read the book.

LinuxLurker01 said:

I'm surprised to hear a professor say that. I took a few exegesis classes back in the day, and almost every scholarly source I read soundly rebuked the idea that St. John's gospel is anti-semitic, given that most of them believed it was written for Jews expelled from the synagogues. (I have no idea how that sits with Orthodoxy; just sayin' though...)

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I was thinking much the same thing.

I don't think the book was intended to say that the Tao Te Ching predicted Christ - but rather that just as the Law prophesied of Christ even if the Jews were unaware of it, so did Taoism prepare the way for Christ to fulfill the Truth present in Taoism.

I think a VERY similar case can be made for almost ANY religion - the early church liked to point out how the pagans (i.e. the Greek philosophers) had been prepared by their philosophy to recieve Christ. Hinduism and Buddhism have some MARVELOUS elements to them that I cannot help but see God's hand in.

The point seems to be that we should remember God loves ALL - He is at work in EVERY culture, preparing them for Christ. When we go to a culture we ought not merely to correct where they err, but should first seek out what God has already been doing there, and should affirm and further that.

I do like that Chinese Bibles translated John 1 "In the Beginning was the Tao" (since Tao means "way" in a VERY similar way to the old usage of "Logos" at the time John 1 was written; its a very good translation).

LinuxLurker01 said:

I'm surprised to hear a professor say that. I took a few exegesis classes back in the day, and almost every scholarly source I read soundly rebuked the idea that St. John's gospel is anti-semitic, given that most of them believed it was written for Jews expelled from the synagogues. (I have no idea how that sits with Orthodoxy; just sayin' though...)

Also, I've heard nothing but good reviews from people who've read the book.

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Well, that's what he said...and, uh...[whisper]I think he's a Zionist[/whisper].

yeah I haven't read the book, but I have heard nothing but good things from those who have.

i like it. the book has a slightly saint seraphim rose vibe to it. i heart saint seraphim rose.

ortho_cat said:

Hello, just wondering who has read this book, and what your impressions are of it? Do you think it is well researched? Do you find it to be compelling? Also, has anyone listened to the related podcast on AFR?

http://ancientfaith.com/specials/christ_the_eternal_tao

Here is the book and some reviews:

Amazon.com: Christ the Eternal Tao (9781887904230): Hieromonk Damascene, Lou Shibai, You-Shan Tang: Books: Reviews, Prices & more

(p.s. AFR is down for maintenance currently)

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Haven't read the book you referenced...though I'd love to investigate it further from what you described...and on the podcast, I'd definately say it was a good one to hear.



There's much to be said (IMHO) of how the Gospel was contexualized in other cultures of Asia such as in Chineese culture. There was a book I was able to come across a couple years ago about the first Christian missionaries to China (in the 6th century, I think) - for they were Nestorian Christians from the Middle East. It was really cool to see how they "contextualized" the gospel into terms and images that resonated with the local Taoist, Buddhist, and Confucian cultures. ..


A book I was informed of awhile ago is entitled "The Jesus Sutras" by Martin Palmer.





It is an historical account of the first Christian mission to China (led by the monk Alouben) in 635, a piecing together of various strands of evidence: a long-lost Christian monastery now used as a Buddhist temple (with Christian statues in the eighth-century pagoda), a sutra (holy writing) of stone in a stone library, and “The Jesus Sutras,” a collection of scrolls found hidden in a secret library that was sealed around 1005.

From these fragments, the author pieces together a framework for what these early Christians believed, how they acted and interacted with the myriad of cultures and religions around them. The result is a fascinating depiction of a Christianity that is adaptive, hospitable, and relevant.


These early Chinese Christians drew upon imagery from their understanding of the Taoism, Confucianism, Buddhism, Jainism and Shamanism of Tang Dynasty China, which allowed them to present a radical image of Christ as the Dharma King, sending “your raft of salvation to save us from the burning streams” - even saving us from karma and reincarnation.

Here's one of the sutras:

i have wanted to read this book but can not find it at any local book stores

I have not yet read it, but I have heard nothing but good things about it. I however can tell you that the author Heiromonk Damascene is a wonderful wonderful man and highly intelligent. He serves several times a year at our parish when our priests are at their diocesan convention and often visits us on our feast days and when our Bishop comes by. I have had the opportunity to confess to him as well, which is hard since he does not cover your head with the epitrichelion until he absolves you, so you have to look him in the eye whilst speaking of how awful you have been. It is quit daunting and I honestly do not look forward to it. He has a fascinating homiletic style.
However back to the topic at hand, I have heard that it helps to have an understanding of Taoism and eastern philosophy when reading the book.
It will be very St Seraphim Rose esque-he did write his life and also resides in St. Seraphim Rose's former cell.

I've started reading it but I haven't had much time to get very far with it. The parallels between Taoism and Orthodoxy are eerie though.

Blackknight said:

I've started reading it but I haven't had much time to get very far with it. The parallels between Taoism and Orthodoxy are eerie though.

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the Lord wrote His law on the hearts of the gentiles
without divine revelation they lack perfect understanding but they have a good understanding of natural law
i would say something similar about the roman stoics

Macarius said:

I don't think the book was intended to say that the Tao Te Ching predicted Christ - but rather that just as the Law prophesied of Christ even if the Jews were unaware of it, so did Taoism prepare the way for Christ to fulfill the Truth present in Taoism.

I think a VERY similar case can be made for almost ANY religion - the early church liked to point out how the pagans (i.e. the Greek philosophers) had been prepared by their philosophy to recieve Christ. Hinduism and Buddhism have some MARVELOUS elements to them that I cannot help but see God's hand in.

The point seems to be that we should remember God loves ALL - He is at work in EVERY culture, preparing them for Christ. When we go to a culture we ought not merely to correct where they err, but should first seek out what God has already been doing there, and should affirm and further that.

I do like that Chinese Bibles translated John 1 "In the Beginning was the Tao" (since Tao means "way" in a VERY similar way to the old usage of "Logos" at the time John 1 was written; its a very good translation).

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Marcarius used to write long posts.

I took the time to read your post! . .