Catholic vs Protestant Debate

[Tyler52]

“For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
-Romans 6:23

Since the wages of sin is death, how then can there be venial sin that does not lead to death? The scripture does not say that the wages of some sin is death, but the wages of sin is death, therefore it must be that the penalty for sins considered venial also leads to death.

 

[RileyG]

"All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.- 1 John 5:17

 

[Tyler52]

"All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.- 1 John 5:17

if the wages of sin is death, but not all sin leads to death, isn’t it more likely that that sin that leads to death is the sin not repented of? After all, the wages of shoplifting and murder are both death.

 

[RileyG]

if the wages of sin is death, but not all sin leads to death, isn’t it more likely that that sin that leads to death is the sin not repented of? After all, the wages of shoplifting and murder are both death.

All sins not repented of lead to death.

 

[zippy2006]

if the wages of sin is death, but not all sin leads to death, isn’t it more likely that that sin that leads to death is the sin not repented of? After all, the wages of shoplifting and murder are both death.

"If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death." (1 John 5:16-17 ESV)

 

[Tyler52]

All sins not repented of lead to death.

So what are you arguing?

 

[Tyler52]

"If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death." (1 John 5:16-17 ESV)

if the wages of sin is death, but not all sin leads to death, isn’t it more likely that that sin that leads to death is the sin not repented of? After all, the wages of cussing and murder are both death.

 

[RileyG]

So what are you arguing?

Venial sins aren't immediately damnable, but mortal sins are.

 

[St_Worm2]

All sins not repented of lead to death.

Hi Riley, that's not what the CCC seems to be saying (regarding "venial" sin), or am I misunderstanding something?

1863 Venial sin weakens charity; it manifests a disordered affection for created goods; it impedes the soul's progress in the exercise of the virtues and the practice of the moral good; it merits temporal punishment. Deliberate and unrepented venial sin disposes us little by little to commit mortal sin. However, venial sin does not set us in direct opposition to the will and friendship of God; ~it does not break the covenant with God.~​

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With God's grace it is ~humanly reparable. ~? (Hebrews 9:22)​

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"Venial sin does not deprive the sinner of sanctifying grace, friendship with God, charity, and consequently eternal happiness."~134​

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~Catechism of the Catholic Church​

God bless you!!

--David

 

[chevyontheriver]

"If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death." (1 John 5:16-17 ESV)

Why is this even a 'debate'? Scripture is pretty clear that there are mortal sins and sins that are not mortal. Protestants say they follow Scripture. There it is. Next.

 

[Tyler52]

Venial sins aren't immediately damnable, but mortal sins are.

Ok, what do you mean by that?

 

[Tyler52]

Why is this even a 'debate'? Scripture is pretty clear that there are mortal sins and sins that are not mortal. Protestants say they follow Scripture. There it is. Next.

We don’t believe that because it’s not what we believe it says

James 5:16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power to prevail.

We are to pray for one another so that we might be healed, the one who sins onto death, either has blasphemed the Holy Spirit, and will never be forgiven, or he refuses to repent and will not be forgiven because he has not repented.

 

[RileyG]

Ok, what do you mean by that?

In Catholic theology, if someone dies without unrepentant, unconfessed mortal sin, they immediately go to hell. Not so with venial sin.

 

[RileyG]

Hi Riley, that's not what the CCC seems to be saying (regarding "venial" sin), or am I misunderstanding something?

1863 Venial sin weakens charity; it manifests a disordered affection for created goods; it impedes the soul's progress in the exercise of the virtues and the practice of the moral good; it merits temporal punishment. Deliberate and unrepented venial sin disposes us little by little ~to commit mortal sin~. However, venial sin does not set us in direct opposition to the will and friendship of God; ~it does not break the covenant with God.~​

​

With God's grace it is ~humanly reparable. ~? (Hebrews 9:22)​

​

"Venial sin does not deprive the sinner of sanctifying grace, friendship with God, charity, and consequently eternal happiness."~134​

​

~Catechism of the Catholic Church​

God bless you!!

--David

Maybe I wasn't clear. Refusing to repent- the unforgivable sin- leads to hell. Mortal sin immediately kills the grace in the soul and one's relationship with God.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Confessing is important because ...

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9)

 

[zippy2006]

if the wages of sin is death, but not all sin leads to death, isn’t it more likely that that sin that leads to death is the sin not repented of? After all, the wages of cussing and murder are both death.

"If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death." (1 John 5:16-17 ESV)​

The passage doesn't say anything about repentance. You are engaged in eisegesis.

 

[zippy2006]

Next.

The thread was effectively finished with a single response.

 

[chevyontheriver]

We don’t believe that because it’s not what we believe it says

James 5:16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power to prevail.

We are to pray for one another so that we might be healed, the one who sins onto death, either has blasphemed the Holy Spirit, and will never be forgiven, or he refuses to repent and will not be forgiven because he has not repented.

That’s a bunch of supposition on your part to deny what Scripture says.

 

[Tyler52]

In Catholic theology, if someone dies without unrepentant, unconfessed mortal sin, they immediately go to hell. Not so with venial sin.

But venial sin’s wages are still death according to Paul in Romans

 

[Tyler52]

That’s a bunch of supposition on your part to deny what Scripture says.

Scripture must be interpreted in the light of other scripture. James provides the context in which the first century Christians prayed for each other’s sins. John says which ones to and not to pray over. Paul tells else the penalty of all sin, which is death, if not, he would not have said the the wages of sin is death. Instead, he would have said that the wages of serious sin is death, but he didn’t, he said that the wages of sin is death.