Catholic Charisms

[Bob Crowley]

I've been attending an "Archdiocesan Summit" over the last couple of days and it finishes tomorrow.

Archdiocesan Summit - Evangelisation Brisbane

The principal gathering of the Archdiocese of Brisbane in 2023 SUMMIT TALKS NOW ONLINE View the talks from The Summit’s main stage online now. Watch Summit Talks Watch the Parish ... Read moreArchdiocesan Summit

evangelisationbrisbane.org.au

One of the speakers is an American lady Sherry Weddell who co-founded the Catherine of Siena Institute way back in 1997.

Catherine of Siena Institute

siena.org

Sherry Anne Weddell

siena.org

There was a one hour session today in which she was the speaker, and it had to with Catholic Charisms (although I think you could almost say they are Christian charisms).

Apparently "charisms" are spiritually endowed gifts and are not natural talents, although of course they may overlap. If someone has the "charism" of "administration", then I would think they would have have a natural gift in that area. They are also given to help other people or if you like to "be given away".

This paragraph was lifte from the St. Catherine of Siena's site -

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TRADITIONAL SEVEN "GIFTS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT," FRUITS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT," AND CHARISMS?​

There are gifts of the Holy Spirit that we are given to keep and gifts we are given to give away. The traditional "seven gifts of the Holy Spirit" and the "fruits" of the Spirit are gifts given to us to keep. They are part of our inner transformation as Christians and provide the inner "Christlikeness" necessary for the effective use of our charisms (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1830-1832). Charisms, on the other hand, are given to us to give away, and are one of the ways God continues to enter the wolrd through our assent and cooperation. They always benefit other people.

It would appear that there are about 24 or 25 of them although we don't know if there could be more -

Discovering Your Charisms

What is a charism? Charisms, spiritual gifts, are special abilities, a special empowerment, given to a Christian by the Holy Spirit to enable them to be powerful channels of God’s love and...

www.standrebessette.org

25 of the identified supernatural Christian Charisms are:

Administration, Celibacy, Craftsmanship, Discernment of Spirits, Encouragement, Evangelism, Faith, Giving, Healing, Helps, Hospitality, Intercessory Prayer, Knowledge, Leadership, Mercy, Missionary, Music, Pastoring, Prophecy, Service, Teaching, Voluntary Poverty, Wisdom, Writing, Public Tongues and the Interpretation of tongues.

Has anybody here had any experience in identifying their own "charisms" and if so what were the results and how did you go about it?

 

[Michie]

For those unfamiliar:

Charisms FAQ

siena.org

What are the 24 Catholic charisms?

Administration, Celibacy, Craftsmanship, Discernment of Spirits, Encouragement, Evangelism, Faith, Giving, Healing, Helps, Hospitality, Intercessory Prayer, Knowledge, Leadership, Mercy, Missionary, Music, Pastoring, Prophecy, Service, Teaching, Voluntary Poverty, Wisdom, Writing, Public Tongues and the Interpretation ...

How does the Catholic Church confirm the gifts and charisms of the Holy Spirit..?

What are the biblical gifts and charisms of the Holy Spirit?

How does the Catholic Church confirm the gifts and charisms of the Holy Spirit actively working in the people of God, now and "henceforth"?


Catechism of the Catholic Church

767 – "When the work which the Father gave the Son to do on earth was accomplished, the Holy Spirit was sent on the day of Pentecost in order that he might continually sanctify the Church. Then the church was openly displayed to the crowds and the spread of the Gospel among the nations, through preaching, was begun. As the ‘convocation’ of all men for salvation, the Church in her very nature is missionary, sent by Christ to all the nations to make disciples of them."

768 – "So that she can fulfill her mission, the Holy Spirit ‘bestows upon [the Church] varied hierarchic and charismatic gifts, and this way directs her’. Henceforward the Church, endowed with the gifts of her founder and faithfully observing his precepts of charity, humility and self-denial, receives the mission of proclaiming and establishing among all peoples the Kingdom of Christ and of God, and she is on earth the seed and the beginning of that kingdom."

798 – "The Holy Spirit is ‘the principle of every vital and truly saving action in each part of the Body.’ He works in many ways to build up the Body in charity: …by the many special graces (called ‘charisms’), by which he makes the faithful ‘fit and ready to undertake various tasks and offices for the renewal and building up of the Church.’ [252] "

799 – "Whether extraordinary or simple and humble, charisms are graces of the Holy Spirit which directly or indirectly benefit the Church, ordered as they are to her building up, to the good of men, and to the needs of the world."

800 – "Charisms are to be accepted with gratitude by the person who receives them and by all members of the Church as well. They are a wonderfully rich grace for the apostolic vitality and for the holiness of the entire Body of Christ, provided they really are genuine gifts of the Holy Spirit and are used in full conformity with authentic promptings of this same Spirit, that is, in keeping with charity, the true measure of all charisms. [253]"

801 – "It is in this sense that discernment of charisms is always necessary. No charism is exempt from being referred and submitted to the Church’s shepherds. ‘Their office [is] not indeed to extinguish the Spirit, but to test all things and hold fast to what is good,’ [254] so that all the diverse and complementary charisms work together ‘for the common good.’ [255] "

951 –"Communion of charisms. Within the communion of the church, the Holy Spirit ‘distributes special graces among the faithful of every rank’ for the building up of the Church. [482] now, ‘to each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.’ [483]"

2003 – "Grace is first and foremost the gift of the Spirit who justifies and sanctifies us. But grace also includes the gifts that the Spirit grants us to associate us with his work, to enable us to collaborate in the salvation of others and in the growth of the Body of Christ, the Church. There are sacramental graces, gifts proper to the different sacraments. There are furthermore special graces, also called charisms after the Greek term used by St. Paul and meaning ‘favor,’ ‘gratuitous gift,’ ‘benefit.’ [53] Whatever their character – sometimes it is extraordinary, such as the gift of miracles or of tongues – charisms are oriented toward sanctifying grace and are intended for the common good of the Church. They are at the service of charity which builds up the Church. [54]"

2004 – "Among the special graces ought to be mentioned the graces of state that accompany the exercise of the responsibilities of the Christian life and of the ministries within the Church. Having gifts that differ according to the grace give to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; if service, in our serving; he who teaches, in his teaching; he who exhorts, in his exhortation; he who contributes, in liberality; he who gives aid, with zeal; he who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness. {55] "

2702 – "The need to involve the senses in interior prayer corresponds to a requirement of our human nature. We are body and spirit and we experience the need to translate our feelings externally. We must pray with our whole being to give all power possible to our supplication."

2703 – "This need also corresponds to a divine requirement. God seeks worshippers in Spirit and in Truth, and consequently living prayer that rises from the depth of the soul. He also wants the external expressions that associates the body with interior prayer, for it renders Him that perfect homage which is His due."

We also recommend Vatican II document on the laity – "Second Vatican Ecumenical Council, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church Lumen Gentium." – which can be purchased in various booklet presentations at most Catholic bookstores.


What are the biblical gifts and charisms of the Holy Spirit?

Gifts and Charisms

diolaf.org

 

[mourningdove~]

I've been attending an "Archdiocesan Summit" over the last couple of days and it finishes tomorrow.

Archdiocesan Summit - Evangelisation Brisbane

The principal gathering of the Archdiocese of Brisbane in 2023 SUMMIT TALKS NOW ONLINE View the talks from The Summit’s main stage online now. Watch Summit Talks Watch the Parish ... Read moreArchdiocesan Summit

evangelisationbrisbane.org.au

One of the speakers is an American lady Sherry Weddell who co-founded the Catherine of Siena Institute way back in 1997.

Catherine of Siena Institute

siena.org

Sherry Anne Weddell

siena.org

There was a one hour session today in which she was the speaker, and it had to with Catholic Charisms (although I think you could almost say they are Christian charisms).

Apparently "charisms" are spiritually endowed gifts and are not natural talents, although of course they may overlap. If someone has the "charism" of "administration", then I would think they would have have a natural gift in that area. They are also given to help other people or if you like to "be given away".

This paragraph was lifte from the St. Catherine of Siena's site -



It would appear that there are about 24 or 25 of them although we don't know if there could be more -

Discovering Your Charisms

What is a charism? Charisms, spiritual gifts, are special abilities, a special empowerment, given to a Christian by the Holy Spirit to enable them to be powerful channels of God’s love and...

www.standrebessette.org

Has anybody here had any experience in identifying their own "charisms" and if so what were the results and how did you go about it?

I would be interested in knowing if you feel the summmit has been helpful to you in identifying your charisms ...
and do you agree with the 'findings'?

One thing about charisms I personally have learned. If we have certain charisms, they do not seem to go away.
As we remain faithful to Christ, they seem to keep surfacing and resurfacing throughout our lives ...
until we can no longer ignore or deny them ...

 

[Bob Crowley]

The "Summit" covered a much larger range of topics than "Charisms". The "charisms" topic was a one hour session by Sherry Weddell and was just an introduction to the topic. There were 20 speakers to choose from over four main topic blocks (five speakers each), with each speaker giving a different emphasis within each block. We could only choose one from each block and I happened to choose Ms. Weddell's subject.

I'll be doing some more reading on the topic and trying to work out which ones I think I've been "gifted" with. I can probably figure out some of them from the list anyway, but I need to do a bit more research.

So I'm a beginner, and we only had the session yesterday. Early days yet.

That's why I wondered if others had experience in this field?

 

[fide]

My judgment concerning charisms in the Church today is that they are greatly over-emphasized, while at the same time the seven gifts (the "Isaian Gifts", Isa 11:2-3, CCC 1831) of the Holy Spirit are seriously misunderstood and under-emphasized. Following St. John of the Cross, Fr. Jordan Aumann, a noted teacher of spiritual theology, has summarized charisms - "graces gratis datae" - in his book Spiritual Theology. The charisms, and charismatic graces ("graces gratis datae"), are contrasted in the quote from Aumann below, with "the seven gifts" - "Isaian Gifts" - "infused virtues and gifts of the Holy Spirit" in point #1 below, which do "form part of the supernatural organism of the Christian life":

Unlike the grace gratum faciens (habitual or actual graces) a grace gratis data has as its immediate purpose not the sanctification of the one who receives it, but the spiritual benefit of others. It is called gratis data not only because it is above the natural power of man but also because it is something outside the realm of personal merit. With this distinction in mind, we may list the following conclusions regarding the graces gratis datae:

1. The graces gratis datae do not form part of the supernatural organism of the Christian life as do sanctifying grace and the infused virtues and gifts of the Holy Spirit, nor can they be classified under actual grace.
2. They are what we may call "epiphenomen" of the life of grace and may even be granted to one who lacks sanctifying grace.
3. They are not and cannot be the object of merit, but are strictly gratuitous.
4. Since they do not form part of the supernatural organism, they are not contained in the virtualities of sanctifying grace, and hence the normal development of the life of grace could never produce or demand them.
5. The graces gratis datae require in each instance the direct intervention of God. From these conclusions concerning the nature of the graces gratis datae we can formulate the following norms to serve as a guide for the spiritual director:

1. It would be temerarious in the normal course of events to desire or to ask God for graces gratis datae or charisms. They are not necessary for salvation nor for sanctification, and they require the direct intervention of God. Far more precious is an act of love than a charismatic gift.​

2. In the event that God does grant a grace gratis datae, it is not a proof that a person is in the state of grace; much less can the gratuitous grace be taken as a sign that the individual is holy.​

3. The graces gratis datae do not sanctify those who receive them. And if anyone in mortal sin were to receive one of these graces, he or she could possibly remain in a sinful state even after the gratuitous gift of charism had been received.​

4. These graces are not given primarily for the benefit of the individual who receives them but for the good of others and for the edification of the Church.​

5. Since the graces gratis datae are something independent of sanctity, it is not necessary that all the saints should have received them. St. Augustine gives the reason for this when he says that they were not given to all the saints lest weak souls should be deceived into thinking that such extraordinary gifts were more important than the good works that are meritorious of eternal life.(3)​

You will probably not hear of these teachings these days. Charisms are very popular; the more important "Seven Gifts" are commonly taught very little, and poorly, and are largely misunderstood.

 

[mourningdove~]

What are the 24 Catholic charisms?

Administration, Celibacy, Craftsmanship, Discernment of Spirits, Encouragement, Evangelism, Faith, Giving, Healing, Helps, Hospitality, Intercessory Prayer, Knowledge, Leadership, Mercy, Missionary, Music, Pastoring, Prophecy, Service, Teaching, Voluntary Poverty, Wisdom, Writing, Public Tongues and the Interpretation ...

When we look at the charisms listed ^, we can see that they are all designed ... in one way or another ...
to be used in service to God and others.

I think that is an important point to make, because there are persons ... esp. on the internet ... who think they have 'gifts' ...
and yet, they aren't meaningfully involved with other people.

... doesn't work that way.

And yet, it is hard to 'hold down' a true charism from God.
It will continue to look for ways to express itself ...

 

[fide]

When we look at the charisms listed ^, we can see that they are all designed ... in one way or another ...
to be used in service to God and others.

I think that is an important point to make, because there are persons ... esp. on the internet ... who think they have 'gifts' ...
and yet, they aren't meaningfully involved with other people.

... doesn't work that way.

And yet, it is hard to 'hold down' a true charism from God.
It will continue to look for ways to express itself ...

The Catechism too-briefly teaches why charisms, to be effective as God intends them, when God intends, and to whom God intends them, require first as their foundation and support and empowerment, the seven-fold Gifts of the Holy Spirit prophesied by (Isaiah 11:2-3):

Catechism 1831 The seven gifts of the Holy Spirit are wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety, and fear of the Lord. They belong in their fullness to Christ, Son of David.<Cf. Isa 11:1-2> They complete and perfect the virtues of those who receive them. They make the faithful docile in readily obeying divine inspirations.

Note carefully the last two sentences here: These seven Gifts " complete and perfect the virtues of those who receive them."
What "virtues"? Firstly and most importantly, the theological virtues given (in potency) in Baptism: (supernatural and infused) Faith, Hope and Charity.
Question 1: Of what power and fruitfulness can a charism be, in a soul weak and rarely tested in supernatural Faith, rarely tested in supernatural Hope, and sadly undeveloped and immature in supernatural selfless God-centered heroic Love as-God-loves, that is, Charity? The answer is, little supernatural power, little supernatural fruit. This is why there has been so much inflation in the list and supposed distribution of charisms - the inflation is produced by mixing natural human gifts with some if any supernatural God-given gifts of charisms.

Yes, charisms are God-given to bring good to others. But to do the good works of the charism, the person receiving it or them needs to have grown in the Seven Gifts of the Holy Spirit listed above in CCC 1831. And very sadly to me, precious little emphasis is given in catechesis and formation in the laity, in how exactly one grows and matures in the Spiritual Gifts. Plenty these days on charisms, little to nothing on the Seven Gifts.

 

[Michie]

The Catechism too-briefly teaches why charisms, to be effective as God intends them, when God intends, and to whom God intends them, require first as their foundation and support and empowerment, the seven-fold Gifts of the Holy Spirit prophesied by (Isaiah 11:2-3):

Note carefully the last two sentences here: These seven Gifts " complete and perfect the virtues of those who receive them."
What "virtues"? Firstly and most importantly, the theological virtues given (in potency) in Baptism: (supernatural and infused) Faith, Hope and Charity.
Question 1: Of what power and fruitfulness can a charism be, in a soul weak and rarely tested in supernatural Faith, rarely tested in supernatural Hope, and sadly undeveloped and immature in supernatural selfless God-centered heroic Love as-God-loves, that is, Charity? The answer is, little supernatural power, little supernatural fruit. This is why there has been so much inflation in the list and supposed distribution of charisms - the inflation is produced by mixing natural human gifts with some if any supernatural God-given gifts of charisms.

Yes, charisms are God-given to bring good to others. But to do the good works of the charism, the person receiving it or them needs to have grown in the Seven Gifts of the Holy Spirit listed above in CCC 1831. And very sadly to me, precious little emphasis is given in catechesis and formation in the laity, in how exactly one grows and matures in the Spiritual Gifts. Plenty these days on charisms, little to nothing on the Seven Gifts.

Do you ever have anything nice to say? You constantly criticize. It’s exhausting. I’m sorry but true.

 

[mourningdove~]

The Catechism too-briefly teaches why charisms, to be effective as God intends them, when God intends, and to whom God intends them, require first as their foundation and support and empowerment, the seven-fold Gifts of the Holy Spirit prophesied by (Isaiah 11:2-3):

Note carefully the last two sentences here: These seven Gifts " complete and perfect the virtues of those who receive them."
What "virtues"? Firstly and most importantly, the theological virtues given (in potency) in Baptism: (supernatural and infused) Faith, Hope and Charity.
Question 1: Of what power and fruitfulness can a charism be, in a soul weak and rarely tested in supernatural Faith, rarely tested in supernatural Hope, and sadly undeveloped and immature in supernatural selfless God-centered heroic Love as-God-loves, that is, Charity? The answer is, little supernatural power, little supernatural fruit. This is why there has been so much inflation in the list and supposed distribution of charisms - the inflation is produced by mixing natural human gifts with some if any supernatural God-given gifts of charisms.

Yes, charisms are God-given to bring good to others. But to do the good works of the charism, the person receiving it or them needs to have grown in the Seven Gifts of the Holy Spirit listed above in CCC 1831. And very sadly to me, precious little emphasis is given in catechesis and formation in the laity, in how exactly one grows and matures in the Spiritual Gifts. Plenty these days on charisms, little to nothing on the Seven Gifts.

I don't disagree at all ... with your discussion on the need for all of us to grow in virtue ...
and to continue to grow.

However, I don't believe one needs to be fully 'perfected' before they can serve God with the charism He has given them.

Were that the case, how many of us would ever 'qualify'?

... just sayin'

 

[fide]

I don't disagree at all ... with your discussion on the need for all of us to grow in virtue ...
and to continue to grow.

However, I don't believe one needs to be fully 'perfected' before they can serve God with the charism He has given them.

Were that the case, how many of us would ever 'qualify'?

... just sayin'

Full perfection is not stated as a condition - God can use and has used a jackass - but Christians who don't even know of the path to perfection, nor, therefore can they strive for it, are poor ambassadors for the Holy Name. The disciples were NOT SENT OUT until they were "clothed with power from on high" - that is, were empowered within by supernatural graces from the Holy Spirit. NOT merely the charisms they were given in their initial sendings, before the Cross and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.
I grieve to say that most Catholics have never even heard of the path to holiness lived, taught and described by St. John of the Cross, and other saints. Yet some Catholic pastors are "sending them out" all armed with the "charisms" they think (and were told) that they have, "like the apostles", I've heard some pastors say. The Church has spiritual treasures, being covered over with baby food.

 

[mourningdove~]

I grieve to say that most Catholics have never even heard of the path to holiness lived, taught and described by St. John of the Cross, and other saints. Yet some Catholic pastors are "sending them out" all armed with the "charisms" they think (and were told) that they have, "like the apostles", I've heard some pastors say. The Church has spiritual treasures, being covered over with baby food.

What you share is sad to hear ... truth is sometimes that way.
But we are not all lukewarm, praise be to God.

 

[fide]

What you share is sad to hear ... truth is sometimes that way.
But we are not all lukewarm, praise be to God.

Amen to that! I have met holy, true, Christ-like priests - diocesan and religious - and religious (especially sisters and nuns) and laity in every place I have ever been in the Church. In every place not many, but always a precious some. They are like stars in the night sky, magnificent, luminous, beautiful to behold in the background of darkness. Thus I understand "Many are called, but few are chosen."

As Christ did, these few will suffer and be cast out, for the good of the many! This Paul saw and understood well, as he wrote:

Rom 8:16 it is the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
Rom 8:17 and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

2Co 1:6 If we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation; and if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which you experience when you patiently endure the same sufferings that we suffer.

And I pray that the light faithfully persevering in the darkness of night will be seen by many of the many, maybe in the last moments of their lives, to guide them to the One Saving Light of the Son.

The Lord gave us hope, even in days of the few, that in the end - as John the Beloved saw - a great multitude will be gathered into Him:

Rev 7:9 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no man could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands,
Rev 7:10 and crying out with a loud voice, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb!"
Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round the throne and round the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,
Rev 7:12 saying, "Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be to our God for ever and ever! Amen."
Rev 7:13 Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, "Who are these, clothed in white robes, and whence have they come?"
Rev 7:14 I said to him, "Sir, you know." And he said to me, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night within his temple; and he who sits upon the throne will shelter them with his presence.
Rev 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; the sun shall not strike them, nor any scorching heat.
Rev 7:17 For the Lamb in the midst of the throne will be their shepherd, and he will guide them to springs of living water; and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."