Camel through a Needle’s eye

[inquiring mind]

Mark 10:25 So, can you do well financially, not give it all away, and still make it to Heaven?

 

[Radrook]

Joseph of Arimathea was a rich man who was also a disciple of Jesus and who provided the tomb and linen for his burial.

Joseph of Arimathea - Wikipedia

 

[ewq1938]

Mark 10:25 So, can you do well financially, not give it all away, and still make it to Heaven?

Yes.

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


There you go. Under the first covenant you could be rich and inherit eternal life if you kept the commandments!

Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

If a person wanted to be "perfect" meaning do even better than just keeping the commandments then you could also give all to the poor and take part in Christ's ministry with Him. This however is not required for receiving eternal life.

 

[SkyWriting]

Mark 10:25 So, can you do well financially, not give it all away, and still make it to Heaven?

With God....literally, all things are possible.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

Some scholars have said there was a gate called Needle's Eye, which was lower than most, and camels have to get on their knees to pass through. So, not impossible, but difficult.

 

[inquiring mind]

Yes.

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


There you go. Under the first covenant you could be rich and inherit eternal life if you kept the commandments!

Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

If a person wanted to be "perfect" meaning do even better than just keeping the commandments then you could also give all to the poor and take part in Christ's ministry with Him. This however is not required for receiving eternal life.

Matthew left a little more wiggle-room than Mark, didn't he.

 

[St_Worm2]

Mark 10:25 So, can you do well financially, not give it all away, and still make it to Heaven?

Salvation is by grace through faith (not according to how rich or poor we are) So if certain rich men (like Abraham or King David or King Solomon, for instance) are able to understand that they are lost, despite their great wealth, and that they will remain so apart from Jesus Christ, then sure, why wouldn't such men be able to "make it to Heaven"?

 

[ewq1938]

Matthew left a little more wiggle-room than Mark, didn't he.

He was only lacking as far as being perfect. Luckily we don't need to be perfect to inherit eternal life

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Some scholars have said there was a gate called Needle's Eye, which was lower than most, and camels have to get on their knees to pass through. So, not impossible, but difficult.

The information I have is the 'Needle's Eye' gate didn't exist until the time of the Crusaders. The comment about getting a camel through the eye of a needle is more than likely exaggeration.

But Jesus is pretty clearly speaking of one who puts all his trust in wealth to secure himself a place in Heaven, rather than relationship with God.

 

[St_Worm2]

Luckily we don't need to be perfect to inherit eternal life

Luckily, He was though (or else we would need to be )

 

[St_Worm2]

The information I have is the 'Needle's Eye' gate didn't exist until the time of the Crusaders.

I never knew that

But Jesus is pretty clearly speaking of one who puts all his trust in wealth to secure himself a place in Heaven, rather than relationship with God.

Agree ^

 

[JackRT]

Some scholars have said there was a gate called Needle's Eye, which was lower than most, and camels have to get on their knees to pass through. So, not impossible, but difficult.

I have heard that suggestion as well but there is another that makes far more sense to me. In the Aramaic language the word that means "rope" is apparently similar to the word for "camel". This preserves the metaphor without becoming ridiculous.

 

[~Anastasia~]

The short answer is that yes, it is possible for a person to be rich and enter the Kingdom. As Jesus said, with God, all things are possible.

Being poor for God doesn't guarantee salvation either.

1 Cor 13:3 And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.

The real issue is our hearts.

The problem with riches is, for many people, having riches makes them rely too heavily on them, think too much about protecting them or increasing them, what they're going to spend them on, and so on. It can be a distraction and a huge temptation, in so many directions.

On the other hand, with the right heart, and considering riches as simply a tool to be used for the glory of God, they can be a good thing. It's just that few people manage to get their desires in line to be able to actually do that.

 

[ewq1938]

The information I have is the 'Needle's Eye' gate didn't exist until the time of the Crusaders. The comment about getting a camel through the eye of a needle is more than likely exaggeration.

Such gates did exist.

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

strait
G4728
ste??´?
stenos
sten-os'
Probably from the base of G2476; narrow (from obstacles standing close about): - strait.


This is what it's saying:

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the NARROW gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because NARROW is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

[AvgJoe]

Mark 10:25 So, can you do well financially, not give it all away, and still make it to Heaven?

Yes, absolutely.

Some theorize that the needle Jesus was speaking of was the Needle Gate, supposedly a low and narrow after-hours entrance found in the wall surrounding Jerusalem. It was purposely small for security reasons, and a camel could only go through it by stripping off any saddles or packs and crawling through on its knees. The problem with this theory is there is no evidence such a gate ever existed. Beyond that, what sane camel driver would go through such contortions when larger gates were easily accessible?

The most likely explanation is that Jesus was using hyperbole, a figure of speech that exaggerates for emphasis. Jesus used this technique at other times, referring to a “plank” in one’s eye (Matthew 7:3-5) and swallowing a camel (Matthew 23:24).

Jesus’ message is clear—it is impossible for anyone to be saved on his own merits. Since wealth was seen as proof of God’s approval, it was commonly taught by the rabbis that rich people were blessed by God and were, therefore, the most likely candidates for heaven. Jesus destroyed that notion, and along with it, the idea that anyone can earn eternal life. The disciples had the appropriate response to this startling statement. They were utterly amazed and asked, “Who then can be saved?” in the next verse. If the wealthy among them, which included the super-spiritual Pharisees and scribes, were unworthy of heaven, what hope was there for a poor man?

Jesus’ answer is the basis of the gospel: "With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God" (Matthew 19:26). Men are saved through God’s gifts of grace, mercy, and faith (Ephesians 2:8-9). Nothing we do earns salvation for us. It is the poor in spirit who inherit the kingdom of God (Matthew 5:3), those who recognize their spiritual poverty and their utter inability to do anything to justify themselves to a holy God. The rich man so often is blind to his spiritual poverty because he is proud of his accomplishments and has contented himself with his wealth. He is as likely to humble himself before God as a camel is to crawl through the eye of a needle.

 

[SteveCaruso]

Some scholars have said there was a gate called Needle's Eye, which was lower than most, and camels have to get on their knees to pass through. So, not impossible, but difficult.

I'll re-iterate what others have said, but no such gate or rock formation known as the "Needle's Eye" existed. It's a common myth.

I have heard that suggestion as well but there is another that makes far more sense to me. In the Aramaic language the word that means "rope" is apparently similar to the word for "camel". This preserves the metaphor without becoming ridiculous.

The word in question is גמלא (gamla). Unfortunately the meaning for "rope" does not appear until the 10th century in the Syriac dialect, which is the wrong Aramaic language family and nearly 1,000 years too late for that meaning to have been employed by Jesus.

In the Talmud, we see a parallel to this saying where we see an elephant instead of a camel, and there is no potential for a pun there in any dialect.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Such gates did exist.

strait
G4728
sten-os'
Probably from the base of G2476; narrow (from obstacles standing close about): - strait.

This is what it's saying:

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the NARROW gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because NARROW is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Yes, in a city like Jerusalem one would expect 'cargo' gates for loads and such, and some 'pedestrian' gates for single people on foot. Most land border ports of entry have essentially similar arrangements.

 

[ewq1938]

I have heard that suggestion as well but there is another that makes far more sense to me. In the Aramaic language the word that means "rope" is apparently similar to the word for "camel". This preserves the metaphor without becoming ridiculous.

That's a second way of understanding it.

The Straight Dope: More on camels passing through the eyes of needles

The word used is "kamelos" (camel) in all of the early manuscripts up to about 400 AD. After that point "kamilos" (heavy rope) turned up in a handful of manuscripts, a few translations, and some commentators' notes.

The confusion may arise partly from the fact that Greek vowel sounds were changing during this period. The "eta" (e) was now pronounced the same as the "iota" (i). Nonetheless, the early manuscripts are unanimous in reading "camel."

There's a principle in New Testament studies that when ancient manuscripts differ slightly in their wording, the manuscript with the most *difficult* reading is probably correct. We often hear what we expect to hear; so a copyist would be more likely to mistakenly substitute an unsurprising word for an odd one than the other way around. For example, if the original reading were "rope," and a copyist accidentally wrote "camel," that would be a jarring enough mistake to be caught the first time you read it. But a copyist might read "camel" and think, "that can't be right--they must have meant 'rope'"--and thus introduce an error, thinking it was a correction. So, while "rope" is more reasonable and more easily understood; that's an argument against it being the original thought!

More likely Jesus was using intentionally grotesque language, like later rabbis who spoke of an elephant going through the eye of a needle.

The "needle" was part of a fishing vessel that the "rope" or (camel) passed through to raise the sails.

So bible thumpers like to view this scripture as saying it is impossible for a rich man to enter heaven. But in actuality, a rope can pass through a needle in shipping terms, but it is a snug fit and isn't an easy accomplishment.


Matthew 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Matthew 19:25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?



They were shocked that rich men had a difficult time getting into heaven. Back then it was believed the richer you were the more blessed by God you were so you must have a "ticket to heaven", and poor and diseased people were considered to be punished by God and not going to heaven but Christ explains how these beliefs are backwards. He uses many examples to this effect including the rich man and the beggar.

Going back a verse is key to understanding whether it is impossible or not for a rich man to enter the Kingdom:

Matthew 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

1423
1423 duskolos {doos-kol'-oce}
from 1422;; adv
AV - hardly 3; 3
1) with difficulty



Matthew 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.



The very language proves that the issue is how HARD or DIFFICULT it was for a rich man to enter heaven, not that it was IMPOSSIBLE.
So you see even in the Greek the statement isn't about it being impossible for a rich man to enter heaven. It's with DIFFICULTY that he can. Therefore Christ uses another example of something DIFFICULT but not impossible which everyone would commonly be able to understand and that was a camel entering the needle/narrow gate of a city. This also was NOT IMPOSSIBLE but was DIFFICULT and hard.


Jeremiah 9:23 Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches:
Jeremiah 9:24 But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.


There is nothing wrong with being rich if one knows the Lord.


In Bullinger's "Figures of Speech Used in the Bible" there are several references to larger type animals like Camel's etc that go through the 'eye of a needle' which is a gate through a wall. It was a well known figure of speech in ancient times. Manners and Customs of the Bible by James Freeman also speaks of this.

Keep in mind the "eye" of a sewing needle is a narrow passage from one side to the other which something can pass through. Naturally the "eye" of a gate is the exact same concept.

Slang Dictionary: Search

"threading the needle"

"Context: When someone attempts to squeeze a raft through a sufficiently narrow passage they are said to be threading the needle."

Squeezing through a narrow gate would be the ancient equivalent.


Matthew 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Mark 10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Luke 18:25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.


So, this definitely is not about a rope being unable to pass through a sewing needle BUT even if it was, a rope can be broken down to it's small fibers and one by one passed through the eye of the needle then reconstructed into a rope. It would be DIFFICULT, but not impossible!


Mar_10:27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.


This is a true statement but it wasn't said to contradict himself when he said a rich man can enter the kingdom "with difficulty". A man cannot save himself alone, he needs God but God also instructs man on what man needs to do. A rich man can enter the Kingdom, it will be hard, but if he obeys God and His commands in scripture, even a rich man can be saved.

 

[ewq1938]

I'll re-iterate what others have said, but no such gate or rock formation known as the "Needle's Eye" existed. It's a common myth.

Actually it is the denial of it which is the myth and it's pretty common to see this but Christ himself spoke of a wide and a narrow gate proving that such gates did in fact exist and the people he spoke to would have perfectly understood.

 

[ewq1938]