Discussion Baptisms in the Holy Spirit

[GoldenKingGaze]

Have you been baptized in the Holy Spirit? More than once? What changes took place?

I have been given the gift of tongues, and I asked for another language in addition to the first. I have this. But I am not yet baptized in the Holy Spirit.

How did you gain your grace of baptism in the Holy Spirit?

 

[tturt]

We're sealed by the Holy Spirit when we become believers according to Eph 1:13

There's "...the doctrine of baptism s..." (Heb 6:2). There's 3 main Biblical baptisms, immersions.

1 - By The Holy Spirit into Jesus reconcilng us to God (at salvation). By this iimmersion we are a new creature in Christ (ii Cor 5:17).
2- By Jesus who sends the promise of the Father baptists us "by," "with" and "in" the Holy Spirit and comes upon us (The Spirit baptism)
3 - By another believer. All 3 persons of the Godhead involved in this, the water baptism, as well.

1 - By The Holy Spirit into Jesus which reconciles us to God is the baptism at salvation. It's being baptized by the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ by believing in His death, burial, and resurrection. We become new creatures in Christ. We will tell others of our salvation. (Rev 1:5; Matt 26:28; Mark 1:4-9, 16:16; Luk 3:3; 1 Cor 12:13; Acts 2:38; Gal 3:27, II Cor 5:17-18, Rom 3:25,, 5:9, 10:9).

Then we can receive The Spirit baptism. By Jesus who sends the promise of the Father baptists us "by," "with" and "in" the Holy Spirit (The Spirit baptism) includes when the Holy Spirit comes upon us, He endures us with power for service to Him and to keep His Word. (Matt 3:11; Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16; John 1:33, Acts 1:5, 8:14-17, 10:44-48, 11:16; Luk 24:49, Eph 5:18, Acts 4:31; I John 3:24; Eze 36:25-28; John 14:25-27).

dont mean to imply we're empty of Him. We can be and need to be continuously filled based on::
- John 20:22, The Upper Room, then "And when they had prayed, the place in which they were assembled was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they continued to speak the Word of God with freedom and boldness and courage." (Acts 4:23). And "And the disciples were filled with joy, and with the Holy Ghost." (Acts 13:52) Some versions state "And the disciples were continually filled [throughout their souls] with joy and the Holy Spirit." AMPC, EHV, GW, ISV, Phillips, NOG, NASB
- in the Greek, because of the verb tense of "filled" in Acts 13:52, it means continous action.

 

[ARBITER01]

Have you been baptized in the Holy Spirit? More than once? What changes took place?

If we are talking about an actual immersion in The Holy Spirit, that happened when I was born again. If we are talking about a "filling" of The Holy Spirit, that happened for me about a year after I was born again. It was completely separate and different from my regeneration.

The changes that took place for me, was a much closer and connected prayer life with GOD, a clearer and much better understanding of scripture. At times scripture would seem to lift off the pages and straight into my heart. I could even see a golden sort of imprint behind the words at times.

I also changed as a person. I had more control over certain aspects that seemed to still control me even after I was born again. I had a much greater positive attitude in life. It was just an all around greater walk with GOD for me once I received Him inside. I was actually being "led" by The Holy Spirit now since He was there inside me.

I have remained filled with Him from the start. I have had times when that filling was stronger, but I have never needed an additional filling. I think that is just some misunderstanding of scripture. You don't loose The Holy Spirit once He is arrived inside you, that is, if you wish to remain a born again Christian.

I have been given the gift of tongues, and I asked for another language in addition to the first. I have this. But I am not yet baptized in the Holy Spirit.

How did you gain your grace of baptism in the Holy Spirit?

I'm not sure what you are talking about.

Get your priorities straightened out. Either you received The Holy Spirit of you didn't. Either you have HIs gifts or you don't. You don't receive any of His gifts unless you have been filled with Him subsequent to being born again.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I'm not sure what you are talking about.

Get your priorities straightened out. Either you received The Holy Spirit of you didn't. Either you have HIs gifts or you don't. You don't receive any of His gifts unless you have been filled with Him subsequent to being born again.

I was taught to make straight the way for the Spirit, people helped me open my heart and a Pastor after the preaching, laid hands on me and I received the Holy Spirit, started to bear gentleness and gained the gift of tongues at the end of the same year. I have not yet been immersed in the Holy Spirit with the inner strengthening. Peter the disciple to Peter the apostle.

 

[CoreyD]

Have you been baptized in the Holy Spirit? More than once? What changes took place?

I have been given the gift of tongues, and I asked for another language in addition to the first. I have this. But I am not yet baptized in the Holy Spirit.

How did you gain your grace of baptism in the Holy Spirit?

Do you mean you started speaking another language without ever learning it? What language did you speak?

 

[ARBITER01]

I was taught to make straight the way for the Spirit, people helped me open my heart and a Pastor after the preaching, laid hands on me and I received the Holy Spirit, started to bear gentleness and gained the gift of tongues at the end of the same year. I have not yet been immersed in the Holy Spirit with the inner strengthening. Peter the disciple to Peter the apostle.

I don't know who's teaching you such things, but as Christians, we NEVER accept anyone and their opinions on face value. NEVER. I don't care who they are, they can always be wrong at some point. Let every man be a liar and GOD true. Between The Holy Spirit's revelation and the written word, we are expected to discern what is right and what is wrong, and 9 times out of 10 people will mislead you if you are not careful.



The Spiritual process in Christianity is this,...

- Spiritual immersion into the forgiveness of your sins, ie The Holy Spirit surrounds you and applies the blood of Jesus to your human spirit and you are regenerated into the likeness of Jesus's human spirit.

- You seek and are subsequently "filled" with The Holy Spirit and also receive His fruits and gifts into your human spirit.

- You can seek a Spiritual anointing upon your head whereby The Holy Spirit comes to rest upon you in power, and you are then empowered for service/ministry. The greater gifts such as gifts of healings, working of miracles, and the gift of faith can begin to operate by GOD at that point.



By scripture, there is only 1 Spiritual immersion, 1 filling, and 1 anointing that a Christian can receive. Beyond these requires glorification of our bodies.

 

[jiminpa]

Do you mean you started speaking another language without ever learning it? What language did you speak?

Have you considered 1 Corinthians 14:2?

 

[CoreyD]

Have you considered 1 Corinthians 14:2?

I know that verse.
So, it's not a language anyone understands. That's what I wanted to know. Thanks.

I asked because I wanted to know how one would know it's a gift of Holy Spirit?
Didn't all the persons baptized in holy spirit, speak a different language, rather than tongues unknown to the hearer? Acts 2:4, 11; Acts 19:6; Acts 10:46

The gifts of holy spirit were available, only to those who were baptized in holy spirit, but these gifts served to produce what is beneficial to each person. 1 Corinthians 12:4-13
What that purpose was, in relation to tongues was mentioned by Paul? 1 Corinthians 12:27-31; 1 Corinthians 14:1-33
What reasons do we have for believing that this gift exists at present, and has not come to an end? 1 Corinthians 13:8

The subject is Baptism in Holy Spirit, though, which is not related to gifts of the spirit.
All persons baptized in holy spirit, has not received the gift of tongues.
1 Corinthians 12:27-31
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.

 

[ARBITER01]

I know that verse.
So, it's not a language anyone understands. That's what I wanted to know. Thanks.

I asked because I wanted to know how one would know it's a gift of Holy Spirit?
Didn't all the persons baptized in holy spirit, speak a different language, rather than tongues unknown to the hearer? Acts 2:4, 11; Acts 19:6; Acts 10:46

It's better to ask one question at a time,,..... if you really want answers.

I'll answer your question with a question, why did Peter refer to the activity in acts 2 as prophesying?

 

[CoreyD]

It's better to ask one question at a time,,..... if you really want answers.

I'll answer your question with a question, why did Peter refer to the activity in acts 2 as prophesying?

They were bearing witness to the truth - declaring the gospel.

 

[Richard T]

Just take a look at John 4:14. Jesus first talks for the born again experience to the woman at the well. He said it would be a "well of water springing up to eternal life. Later Jesus says this:
John 7:37-39 (ESV)
37 On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’”
39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

When they received the spirit in Acts 2, they spoke in other tongues. Some spoke languages known to others, some spoke perhaps in the tongues of angels (I Cor 13:1) some spoke and acted like they were drunk. The point is they received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. So one is saved, (well of water) first and then one may receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit (rivers of living water) with evidence of speaking on tongues. The grace is received by faith for most, though I have heard of some who resisted this, receiving it by a sovereign act of God.

 

[ARBITER01]

They were bearing witness to the truth - declaring the gospel.

On second thought, I don't think I want to open up this can of worms. I've explained it enough over the years.

 

[CoreyD]

When they received the spirit in Acts 2, they spoke in other tongues. Some spoke languages known to others, some spoke perhaps in the tongues of angels (I Cor 13:1) some spoke and acted like they were drunk.

Acts 2:5-13
5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. 7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? 9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” 12 Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?”

No. The text say they spoke different languages, that was understood by Jews from every nation.
1 Corinthians 13:1 is an unrelated scripture.

 

[ARBITER01]

Just so everyone is aware,....

House Rules:
All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules found here (Terms of Service and Christian Forum Rules). In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against its theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic. Fellowship posts can also include statements that are in alignment with beliefs of the given denomination, even by non-members. They cannot include debate or non-beliefs.

 

[Richard T]

Acts 2:5-13
5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. 7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? 9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” 12 Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?”

No. The text say they spoke different languages, that was understood by Jews from every nation.
1 Corinthians 13:1 is an unrelated scripture.

Yes, I assume that since they appeared to be drunk, that there was more going on than just someone speaking to another in a foreign language. As to the tongues of angels, the I Cor verse simply implies that it is possible. There is no way of knowing though exactly what the languages consisted of or exactly why some thought they were drunk. Perhaps they were having holy laughter? I am glad you brought this out though to help me be more careful in my assumptions.

 

[CoreyD]

Yes, I assume that since they appeared to be drunk, that there was more going on than just someone speaking to another in a foreign language.

Yes. Making assumptions where scripture is concerned, will surely lead to error.

As to the tongues of angels, the I Cor verse simply implies that it is possible. There is no way of knowing though exactly what the languages consisted of or exactly why some thought they were drunk.

Careful. It's dangerous to think that way.
If we want to believe something other than what the scriptures says, we will make the word invalid, in in favor of our own doctrines Mark 7:6, 7. So that 2 Timothy 3:16, means nothing to us.
In other words, the scriptures are useless, because we decide what is truth.
That thinking is condemned by Jesus.

Perhaps they were having holy laughter?

Ahem. Remember... Scripture.
Let me ask... According to scripture, did all those baptized in holy spirit have the gift of tongues?

I am glad you brought this out though to help me be more careful in my assumptions.

I'm glad you are willing to be adjusted by the scriptures.
How careful will you be though?

 

[Richard T]

Yes. Making assumptions where scripture is concerned, will surely lead to error.


Careful. It's dangerous to think that way.

If we want to believe something other than what the scriptures says, we will make the word invalid, in in favor of our own doctrines Mark 7:6, 7. So that 2 Timothy 3:16, means nothing to us.
In other words, the scriptures are useless, because we decide what is truth.
That thinking is condemned by Jesus.


Ahem. Remember... Scripture.
Let me ask... According to scripture, did all those baptized in holy spirit have the gift of tongues?

The gift of tongues, according to I Cor is called "various kinds of tongues." When Paul says "not everyone speaks in tongues" he is talking about the gift "various kinds of tongues" in context of that chapter. When people are baptized in the Holy Spirit; Acts, is sometimes silent as to what occurred. It is something that was evident and at least two times Acts records that they spoke in tongues, one time they prophesied, one time Simon saw something. The evidence given though incomplete, points to the baptism of the Holy Spirit is given to all and that speaking in tongues (not the gift) is generally the outcome.
Where it is confusing is this baptism of speaking on tongues, is not part of the gift "various kinds of tongues." I think that speaking in a foreign language for instance is part of the "various kinds of tongues." It cannot be proven either way. The reason for that is because one can speak in tongues, or pray in the spirit at will. Whereas the gift various kinds of tongues is "only as the Holy Spirit wills." Most do not recognize that difference. I note too that there is a set apart ministry of "diversity of tongues." I Cor 12:27-28. Sadly, the church does not really recognize this position or even realize the impact. To answer the question, I believe everyone baptized in the spirit, can speak in tongues. However, it generally is not part of the gift, various kinds of tongues.

That is about as careful as I have gotten on this. Over the years, I have made some good progress. It is not too uncommon in Pentecostal beliefs. Most however assume that the foreign language speaking in Acts 2 is merely the baptism. I disagree, again, because one cannot speak in a unknown foreign language at will like that. The same is for those that received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and prophesied. They were baptized in the spirit and went straight to an operation of a gift of the spirit. Had there been follow up on their baptism of the spirit, it would likely have shown that they could also speak in tongues at will too.
The idea of speaking in tongues at will, without interpretation comes from various other scriptures. Such as:
Jude 1:20 (KJV)
20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Of course that could be English, but Paul prayed in tongues more than all and it seems doubful he was interpreting all of that.

Rom 8:26 and the verses in context I believe are about the believer praying with the Holy spirit with groanings too deep to utter. It is this praying in of the will of God that opens the door for the Romans 8:28 to occur. It is somewhat complicated in getting there, but it is just one possible interpretation. I am fine with those who disagree. I cannot say this teaching orginates from me but I have studied under some good Pentecostal teachers and in totality this type of doctrine fits the entire word of God on the subject better than anything else I have heard. I can expound more if you like or answer any question more fully. As to various interpretations, the bible is full of controversial doctrines concerning eternal security, what happens when you die (sleeping dead), tithing for the NT, end times rapture and tribulation, etc. So judgment calls have to be made with the teacher of the Holy Spirit in so many areas. Anyway, thanks for listening and pointing out potential deficiences.

 

[CoreyD]

The gift of tongues, according to I Cor is called "various kinds of tongues." When Paul says "not everyone speaks in tongues" he is talking about the gift "various kinds of tongues" in context of that chapter. When people are baptized in the Holy Spirit; Acts, is sometimes silent as to what occurred. It is something that was evident and at least two times Acts records that they spoke in tongues, one time they prophesied, one time Simon saw something. The evidence given though incomplete, points to the baptism of the Holy Spirit is given to all and that speaking in tongues (not the gift) is generally the outcome.
Where it is confusing is this baptism of speaking on tongues, is not part of the gift "various kinds of tongues." I think that speaking in a foreign language for instance is part of the "various kinds of tongues." It cannot be proven either way. The reason for that is because one can speak in tongues, or pray in the spirit at will. Whereas the gift various kinds of tongues is "only as the Holy Spirit wills." Most do not recognize that difference. I note too that there is a set apart ministry of "diversity of tongues." I Cor 12:27-28. Sadly, the church does not really recognize this position or even realize the impact. To answer the question, I believe everyone baptized in the spirit, can speak in tongues. However, it generally is not part of the gift, various kinds of tongues.

That is about as careful as I have gotten on this. Over the years, I have made some good progress. It is not too uncommon in Pentecostal beliefs. Most however assume that the foreign language speaking in Acts 2 is merely the baptism. I disagree, again, because one cannot speak in a unknown foreign language at will like that. The same is for those that received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and prophesied. They were baptized in the spirit and went straight to an operation of a gift of the spirit. Had there been follow up on their baptism of the spirit, it would likely have shown that they could also speak in tongues at will too.
The idea of speaking in tongues at will, without interpretation comes from various other scriptures. Such as:
Jude 1:20 (KJV)
20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Of course that could be English, but Paul prayed in tongues more than all and it seems doubful he was interpreting all of that.

Rom 8:26 and the verses in context I believe are about the believer praying with the Holy spirit with groanings too deep to utter. It is this praying in of the will of God that opens the door for the Romans 8:28 to occur. It is somewhat complicated in getting there, but it is just one possible interpretation. I am fine with those who disagree. I cannot say this teaching orginates from me but I have studied under some good Pentecostal teachers and in totality this type of doctrine fits the entire word of God on the subject better than anything else I have heard. I can expound more if you like or answer any question more fully. As to various interpretations, the bible is full of controversial doctrines concerning eternal security, what happens when you die (sleeping dead), tithing for the NT, end times rapture and tribulation, etc. So judgment calls have to be made with the teacher of the Holy Spirit in so many areas. Anyway, thanks for listening and pointing out potential deficiences.

It's a matter of understanding.
We don't all understand. If we did, we would all agree. However, that is not possible, in this present system.
It will be the case in the new world God is making.

Thank you for the conversation, and listening also.
Hope we get to converse on another occasion.

 

[ARBITER01]

When they received the spirit in Acts 2, they spoke in other tongues. Some spoke languages known to others, some spoke perhaps in the tongues of angels (I Cor 13:1) some spoke and acted like they were drunk.

I'll try to help here since you two are just shooting from the hip.

There are two uses of the gift of tongues in scripture: praying and speaking, personal and corporate.

- Personal use is your private prayer language. It is your human spirit praying in a language that is not a human language. The gift provides personal edification to your human spirit as well as answered prayers. It is your own personal prayer language to GOD.

- Corporate use is The Holy Spirit operating this same gift as a ministry to the body of Christ. It provides Edification, exhortation, and comfort to that local body. Since this is utterance by The Holy Spirit, He will also provide the operation of the gift of interpretation to provide the understanding of the message.

The gift of tongues is not understandable, it requires the gift of interpretation to understand it. They work hand in hand during corporate speaking.

People get confused with acts 2 because they think that the text is saying that the people speaking in tongues were speaking human languages that were understood, when in fact it was the gift of interpretation also in operation that was providing the human languages.

All the gifts were poured out when The Holy Spirit arrived, and that included ministries also, as we see in Peter as he was an instantly changed person with his preaching.

On a side note,.... it is not wise to speak on subjects you have no personal experience in. I'm an AOG Pentecostal that has operated in the gift of tongues for over 30 years. I'm in a church that The Holy Spirit operates ministries of some of these gifts during service. Experience counts on a subject like this. There is a very deep pool of understanding on these gifts, and GOD is still showing me small things about them yet.

 

[ARBITER01]

I agree there is much to learn. Your explanation is correct to an extent about personal versus corporate. However, one can speak in tongues in a foreign language directly. It has been done in contemporary times by quite a few.

No it hasn't.

I believe scripture, not people:

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God; for no man understandeth; but by the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

This passage from The Holy Spirit is just as applicable to acts 2 as it was to the Corinthians. GOD changes not.

If a Christian is claiming that GOD had them speak in human languages as their gift of tongues, they are either lying or faking the gift. Either way it is not the true gift.