Bad liturgical music made better...to a degree

[Athanasias]

Hey let's face it if you gotta listen to good ol Marty Hogan and the folkfest band 1000 and hear songs like "Gather us in" clean it up a bit with Pipe Organ(which has place of pride in Liturgies) and chant it in latin(which brings a certain beauty to it and then you don't have to even hear the horribly mundane lyrics or know what he is saying).

One Good priest did just that. It isn't great but its 90 degrees better then the old hippie guitar bongo Gather us In. Check it out

 

[Fantine]

What is wonderful about this rendition is that one of the lines of the original is "Gather us in, the proud and the haughty."

And now it's come true. The "haughty" Fr. Jason is singing "Gather Us In," in a way that only the haughty would appreciate.

Thanks.

 

[Michie]

So rude Fantine.

What is wonderful about this rendition is that one of the lines of the original is "Gather us in, the proud and the haughty."

And now it's come true. The "haughty" Fr. Jason is singing "Gather Us In," in a way that only the haughty would appreciate.

Thanks.

 

[Fantine]

And exactly how does one respond to a satirical put-down of a well-respected liturgical composer's contemporary Mass hymn?

 

[Michie]

By refraining from name calling. People have different tastes Fantine. Calling people haughty and taking a humorless view of ourselves isn't any better than what you have accused this priest of and anyone else that likes more traditional music.

And exactly how does one respond to a satirical put-down of a well-respected liturgical composer's contemporary Mass hymn?

 

[Fantine]

Do you really think that Fr. Jason wanted to turn that hymn into a traditional hymn? Of course not! He wanted to make fun of it and put it down, thereby showing how "highbrow" he was.

"Gather Us In" is not my favorite Haugen hymn, but I am a great fan of the body of his work. When I lived in St. Louis I attended a music workshop he gave and learned some great suggestions for guitar ensembles (although I don't play guitar that often).

"Canticle of the Sun," based on the Canticle of St. Francis, is one of my favorites.

"Shepherd Me, O God" is one of the most beautiful psalm settings I've ever heard. We chose it as one of the hymns for my father's funeral.

"All Are Welcome's" lyrics are, to me, a recipe for a vibrant, dynamic, renewed Church.

Haugen composes quite a bit of 6/8 time music which allows for quite a bit of rhythmic variation and momentum (Canticle of the Sun and Gather Us In are both 6/8 time).

I never criticize traditional music because it is traditional. If it is musically deficient (Praise to the Lord) or lyrically labored and contorted (You satisfy the hungry heart with gift of finest wheat) I will criticize it--as I would a contemporary hymn.

 

[Michie]

There is a difference Fantine in taking any opportunity to get a jab in and criticizing a hymn or simply trying to find humor in a situation. I love 'Shepherd Me Oh God' as well. There is a difference in criticizing a hymn and personally attacking a priest and a whole group of people that like traditional music. Always looking for the worst in others is not attractive either. We really need to learn to appreciate the diversity in the Church as you always say and quit demonizing and polarizing each other with these things. We have to start finding some humor in these things and be more good natured about it. We might actually start learning to appreciate this so-called diversity I keep hearing about if we stop with the personal attacks. Artists are used to criticism as well as praise and know their style is not going to please everyone. I think Marty would not had seen it as harshly. Probably would had seen the humor in it as well.

Do you really think that Fr. Jason wanted to turn that hymn into a traditional hymn? Of course not! He wanted to make fun of it and put it down, thereby showing how "highbrow" he was.

"Gather Us In" is not my favorite Haugen hymn, but I am a great fan of the body of his work. When I lived in St. Louis I attended a music workshop he gave and learned some great suggestions for guitar ensembles (although I don't play guitar that often).

"Canticle of the Sun," based on the Canticle of St. Francis, is one of my favorites.

"Shepherd Me, O God" is one of the most beautiful psalm settings I've ever heard. We chose it as one of the hymns for my father's funeral.

"All Are Welcome's" lyrics are, to me, a recipe for a vibrant, dynamic, renewed Church.

Haugen composes quite a bit of 6/8 time music which allows for quite a bit of rhythmic variation and momentum (Canticle of the Sun and Gather Us In are both 6/8 time).

I never criticize traditional music because it is traditional. If it is musically deficient (Praise to the Lord) or lyrically labored and contorted (You satisfy the hungry heart with gift of finest wheat) I will criticize it--as I would a contemporary hymn.

 

[Fantine]

Well, certainly Marty Haugen wanted to see the haughty "gathered in" during Mass...he just didn't expect them to be conversing in Latin

 

[mark46]

This is simply a continuation of a theme. Those who want to go back to the Church of the 1940's (1540's) can attack and make fun of any practice of the Church, including proclamations by the Holy Father.

Any support for the Church of Vatican II and after is strictly OUT OF LINE!!

Fantine simply forgot one of the unwritten rules.

By refraining from name calling. People have different tastes Fantine. Calling people haughty and taking a humorless view of ourselves isn't any better than what you have accused this priest of and anyone else that likes more traditional music.

 

[Michie]

Yes she forgot how much she claims to love the diversity of the Church. Name calling is not cool. Don't care who you are. It just widens the divide. We need to stop taking these things like taste in music and Masses so personally. Both are there for the laity.

This is simply a continuation of a theme. Those who want to go back to the Church of the 1940's (1540's) can attack and make fun of any practice of the Church, including proclamations by the Holy Father.

Any support for the Church of Vatican II and after is strictly OUT OF LINE!!

Fantine simply forgot one of the unwritten rules.

 

[mark46]

Yes she forgot how much she claims to love the diversity of the Church. Name calling is not cool. Don't care who you are. It just widens the divide. We need to stop taking these things like taste in music and Masses so personally. Both are there for the laity.

OBOB and its members show very little love for the diversity of the Church. The numbers will continue to go down as those who prefer the pre-Vatican II Church continue to diminish in size or find that there is little to discuss here, since there is so little diversity.

 

[Michie]

I think that is something the community needs to revisit.

OBOB and its members show very little love for the diversity of the Church. The numbers will continue to go down as those who prefer the pre-Vatican II Church continue to diminish in size or find that there is little to discuss here, since there is so little diversity.

 

[Fantine]

What is "haughty," exactly?

Hmmm....

Is taking a hymn written in English for keyboard and guitar and turning it into a pipe-organ hymn sung in Latin haughty?

Or pretentious?

There are certain actions that are pretentious. But I will revise my initial comment. Fr. Jason, who was described by Athansius as "good," behaved haughtily when improvising a pretentious rendition of "Gather Us In," on pipe organ in Latin.

I will try to remember in the future to describe someone's behavior as haughty or pretentious rather than criticizing them as people.

 

[Michie]

People take music and revise it all the time. I think it is silly to take offense myself. I
Just saw humor in it actually. Call me crazy.

What is "haughty," exactly?

Hmmm....

Is taking a hymn written in English for keyboard and guitar and turning it into a pipe-organ hymn sung in Latin haughty?

Or pretentious?

There are certain actions that are pretentious. But I will revise my initial comment. Fr. Jason, who was described by Athansius as "good," behaved haughtily when improvising a pretentious rendition of "Gather Us In," on pipe organ in Latin.

I will try to remember in the future to describe someone's behavior as haughty or pretentious rather than criticizing them as people.

 

[Meowzltov]

I love the traditional Latin music the most -- give me O Magnum Mysterium and Christus Factus Est any day. Transcendent! But I still love Gather Us In -- the lyrics are very moving. Consider how shallow Protestant Praise Music is... Jesus I love you, Jesus I love you, Jesus I love you, Yes I do... I think contemporary Catholic music is absolutely ruined when done wrong, such as being sung to an organ... every style should be done the way it is intended. The BIG problem with contemporary Catholic music is that it is meant to be congregational singing, and 80% of the congregation doesn't sing. We also have really awful choirs who don't bother with the harmonies--you might as well just have a good cantor. How come there aren't hardly any men in choir?

 

[Michie]

We have a good choir both men and women. Unfortunately they are rarely used!

I love the traditional Latin music the most -- give me O Magnum Mysterium and Christus Factus Est any day. Transcendent! But I still love Gather Us In -- the lyrics are very moving. Consider how shallow Protestant Praise Music is... Jesus I love you, Jesus I love you, Jesus I love you, Yes I do... I think contemporary Catholic music is absolutely ruined when done wrong, such as being sung to an organ... every style should be done the way it is intended. The BIG problem with contemporary Catholic music is that it is meant to be congregational singing, and 80% of the congregation doesn't sing. We also have really awful choirs who don't bother with the harmonies--you might as well just have a good cantor. How come there aren't hardly any men in choir?

 

[Athanasias]

Well, certainly Marty Haugen wanted to see the haughty "gathered in" during Mass...he just didn't expect them to be conversing in Latin

I have no idea what you mean? Its the best version I ever heard of that horrible banal song.


O that haughty evil Latin...that the Second Vatican council called for in Liturgies to be retained.....its so evil........ I am melting....

 

[Jared R]

While I agree Fantine's reply was dismissive, I have to admit I laughed.

I can't stand "Gather Us In" but this version was a little more tolerable.

"Shepherd Me O God" is very beautiful, and maybe the only Marty Haugen tune I like.

 

[dzheremi]

Why are the songs of Marty Haugen, a non-Catholic, being used in any Roman Catholic Church anywhere, for any reason? I do not understand why any other argument is ever had among Roman Catholics about hymns or arrangement when it seems like this more basic question is not answered. It's not like the Western/Latin church doesn't have its own ancient and venerable hymnody, so it's really strange to me. I looked him up on Wikipedia, and not only is he younger than my own father, it said his songs entered the RCC only in the 1970s and 1980s via the St. Louis Jesuits. Um...I don't want to sound flippant, but so what? Now one group decided for everybody that this is okay? Did the St. Louis Jesuits call Vatican II? Did they elect Popes John XXIII and Paul VI who presided over it? I don't get it.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

There is a difference Fantine in taking any opportunity to get a jab in and criticizing a hymn or simply trying to find humor in a situation. I love 'Shepherd Me Oh God' as well. There is a difference in criticizing a hymn and personally attacking a priest and a whole group of people that like traditional music. Always looking for the worst in others is not attractive either. We really need to learn to appreciate the diversity in the Church as you always say and quit demonizing and polarizing each other with these things. We have to start finding some humor in these things and be more good natured about it. We might actually start learning to appreciate this so-called diversity I keep hearing about if we stop with the personal attacks. Artists are used to criticism as well as praise and know their style is not going to please everyone. I think Marty would not had seen it as harshly. Probably would had seen the humor in it as well.

Never understood anyone who would blanket dislike any music. I love music period. I like some contemporary and who could dislike Gregorian and/or traditional.