apologetics discussion

[peachpilgrim]

Hello, this is a space to discuss logic and apologetics, and their relationship to Christian faith. Specifically I am coming hoping that someone can provide helpful rationale or Scripture why it is not necessary for salvation to be mediated through an evil being, but rather it comes from God in his mercy. This may seem obvious but I would appreciate more help. Also I know that God agrees with all truth but I would appreciate if before responding you would consider whether you hold to the Apostle's Creed and affirming the sanctity of life and the one man/one woman marriage definition, and opposing racism, basic ethics such as that. Because I believe that these are tests that help distinguish true faith. Note: I posted this already but I wanted to post it in the fundy group specifically.

 

[timf]

I am not sure I understand your question. There is one mediator Christ Jesus. He is able to offer us connection to God the father because he is sinless and because he paid for the sins of the whole world. I do not understand why one might think that mediation through someone evil would be effective.

 

[peachpilgrim]

Thanks for pointing me back to Scripture..https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1ti/2/5/s_1121005

I am not sure I understand your question. There is one mediator Christ Jesus. He is able to offer us connection to God the father because he is sinless and because he paid for the sins of the whole world. I do not understand why one might think that mediation through someone evil would be effective.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Hello, this is a space to discuss logic and apologetics, and their relationship to Christian faith. Specifically I am coming hoping that someone can provide helpful rationale or Scripture why it is not necessary for salvation to be mediated through an evil being, but rather it comes from God in his mercy. This may seem obvious but I would appreciate more help. Also I know that God agrees with all truth but I would appreciate if before responding you would consider whether you hold to the Apostle's Creed and affirming the sanctity of life and the one man/one woman marriage definition, and opposing racism, basic ethics such as that. Because I believe that these are tests that help distinguish true faith. Note: I posted this already but I wanted to post it in the fundy group specifically.

I don't suppose all conservative Christians may hold to this (it's a doctrinal point, not necessarily a conservative point) but I would answer you according to my belief in the total depravity of man apart from God.

This doctrine states that no part of fallen man is free from the crippling corruption and the condemning guilt of sin. There is nothing I might do that is not tainted by sin (Isaiah 64:6) Moreover, since the effect of total depravity is the spiritual inability of the sinner (Ephesians 2:1-3; 1 Corinthians 2:14; John 6:44) the "unregenerate man... is unable to obey or please God unto salvation."

Because the stain of the corruption of sin was in act, attitudes and nature,(total) in order to cover us from the wrath of God we justly deserve, to justify us before God, we needed the covering of perfect righteousness counted to us that is found in Christ Jesus

An evil being cannot protect us from our just punishment for sin, he can't even protect himself.

There is something I wrote on forum not long ago that you might find helpful to read:

There's a song I have enjoyed listening to a time or two and in it he talks about being in the ocean of blood, praying for peace.

It was actually that song that made me more cognizant of what the Bible teaches in Matthew 5:21-22 and so I do put forth a more concerted effort when speaking online not to be a "murderer", though I sometimes fear I am often misunderstood.

Biblically though, we've been fighting in Armeggedon for a minute with political speech: ocean of blood indeed.

I raised this point to illustrate the sense that whenever we raise the standard up to the standard of Christ, we all fall short. All of us in one way or another fall short of the Glory of God.

This IS what demonstrates our need for a Savior. We can't save ourselves because we cannot follow the law perfectly. Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God, lived in perfect accordance to the law for us, doing for us what we can not do for ourselves.

His ascension into Heaven caused the promised sending of the Holy Spirit, who reminds us of the Word of God, and strengthens us to battle against our own flesh and desires.

With the Holy Spirit we are able to raise our standard closer to God's than a typical unsaved individual, but we will still have moments we fall short. Daily if we use His Perfect Standard.

However, when we sin we are promised forgiveness when we repent of our sin and ask forgiveness for them. Each moment of each day is a chance for a new start with Christ in our daily life.

Some people in life may have more opportunities to sin than others (I'm disabled, my life is set to boring), other people may be newer Christians and fall more often to sin. But forgiveness is always promised.

All we are here doing is our very best to emulate our Lord and Savior, and to share the Gospel with the lost.

If people don't treat you the way they ought to, while their sin is their own, you don't need to sin yourself in response. We are free from complete bondage to sin, it's our willpower that need to exercise and get stronger, often times.

In the end though, we are all just relying on His forgiveness for sin.

Conservative ethics are as you listed, a Biblical understanding of marriage being between one man and one woman etc, no abortions etc not at all liberal. No female pastors and so forth.

No Christian is racist. We are all one in Christ Jesus and are in the household of God.

I'm not Confessional. You will have variety in the conservative forum, some will be confessional and some are not.

 

[peachpilgrim]

Also a question, can someone please show via syllogism that all that is true, there is a cause - that there is no such thing as a thing that is true but no cause for being true?

 

[timf]

If one defines truth as that which is absolute, unchangeable, and real, it defines God. We can see that which creates and that which is created.

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

That which is created exists, but is not unchangeable. The bible differentiates that which is true from that which is truth. Four things are called truth, God the father, God the son, God the Holy Spirit, and the word of God.

We run into difficulty because for something to be true, it has to conform to something else whereas truth is self existent.. For example,, it might be true that a village has people that are important. However, that those people are important is not "truth".