Any Faithful and Welcoming / Traditional Congregationalists?

[The Liturgist]

Hey everyone,

I am a traditional Congregationalist minister. In the past I have been involved with the Faithful and Welcoming Group in the UCC, although with my current church plant in the Las Vegas area I am looking to probably affiliate with the CCCC. However, I do still really love the heritage of the UCC and some of the beautiful historic congregational parishes within it, for example, First Congregational in Los Angeles and the many UCC parishes in Boston (where CCCC also has the Park Street Church).

 

[tim hu]

Leviticus 24: 22. You are to have the same law for the alien and the native-born. I am the LORD your God.' "

 

[baryogenesis]

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2006/3/20/22461/5250

 

[The Liturgist]

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2006/3/20/22461/5250

The author of that article and the people whomposted comments (reflective of the 2000s moral panic of “Dominionism” which never happened) are the kind of people I have had to deal with who have left me virtually alienated from the UCC, but I am a UCC minister who believes homosexuality is sinful, and my goal is to try to find out if the Faithful and Welcoming group is still functioning.

 

[XianGoth1334]

Hey everyone,

I am a traditional Congregationalist minister. In the past I have been involved with the Faithful and Welcoming Group in the UCC, although with my current church plant in the Las Vegas area I am looking to probably affiliate with the CCCC. However, I do still really love the heritage of the UCC and some of the beautiful historic congregational parishes within it, for example, First Congregational in Los Angeles and the many UCC parishes in Boston (where CCCC also has the Park Street Church).

I have been part of many UCC parishes in the greater Boston area over the past 17+ years. I have had the pleasure of visiting Park Street Church (where I attended as a visitor for a semester while in seminary). My own views reside in a moderate place between the CCCC and some of the craziness that happens in left-leaning UCC circles. Things like "God is still speaking" and "Open and Affirming" can, at least in my humble understanding, be interpreted in a way consistent with Christian tradition / Scripture and can also be used a license to go off in a completely wrong direction (like it just did in the general synod). I have ended up frustrated that I cannot seem to find that healthy balance between extremes.

 

[The Liturgist]

I have been part of many UCC parishes in the greater Boston area over the past 17+ years. I have had the pleasure of visiting Park Street Church (where I attended as a visitor for a semester while in seminary). My own views reside in a moderate place between the CCCC and some of the craziness that happens in left-leaning UCC circles. Things like "God is still speaking" and "Open and Affirming" can, at least in my humble understanding, be interpreted in a way consistent with Christian tradition / Scripture and can also be used a license to go off in a completely wrong direction (like it just did in the general synod). I have ended up frustrated that I cannot seem to find that healthy balance between extremes.

Even the Anglicans have been unable to find such a balance. However I would note that I have not heard of Park Street Church preaching a sermon attacking homosexuals, for example. They use Lectio Continua, so it might well come up on occasion; in the case of churches such as the congregations I founded as underground parishes during COVID, that use lectionaries, well, I myself have never had the occasion to preach a sermon that someone of that orientation would find offensive, except in the past month where I did preach a sermon about the importance of humility, which was not so much targeted at homosexuals but rather at the idea of pride month, since pride is a dangerous vice and several churches were preaching sermons that lauded pride as a concept. I do have homosexual members of my congregations, who are aware that I adhere to traditional Christian morality, but my attitude is that I am the worst sinner in my congregation, this concept being taken from Orthodoxy. It is highly possible one or both of my congregations will be joining either an Orthodox or an Anglican jurisdiction, as we are in talks with both, for while I do have a congregationalist background, I don’t believe its the ideal way to run more than one church, especially since I am opposed to congregational churches having multiple “campuses”, such churches should instead elevate their senior pastor to the title of bishop, and make each campus a parish; I particularly dislike megachurches where the satellite campuses consist of theaters which play on the big screen a live video feed from the main church.

 

[The Liturgist]

I have been part of many UCC parishes in the greater Boston area over the past 17+ years. I have had the pleasure of visiting Park Street Church (where I attended as a visitor for a semester while in seminary). My own views reside in a moderate place between the CCCC and some of the craziness that happens in left-leaning UCC circles. Things like "God is still speaking" and "Open and Affirming" can, at least in my humble understanding, be interpreted in a way consistent with Christian tradition / Scripture and can also be used a license to go off in a completely wrong direction (like it just did in the general synod). I have ended up frustrated that I cannot seem to find that healthy balance between extremes.

By the way it is a pleasure to meet you. I do love the different historic churches around Boston. I have to confess, I wish we hadn’t lost some of our more beautiful churches to the Unitarians. I have often wondered if Arlington Street Church or the Old Ship Church in Providence, RI, would be willing to allow a persecuted Christian community like the Syriac Orthodox from Iraq and Syria or the Ukrainian Orthodox, or the Ukrainian Lutherans, to rent their churches. A number of Syriac Orthodox parishes and Continuing Anglican parishes rent or receive free of charge space in various mainline Protestant churches including Episcopal, Christian Church/Disciples of Christ, ELCA and even Seventh Day Adventist churches. At First Christian Church in Las Vegas, there are three other congregations that meet there, including a Quaker meeting, a United Church of Christ parish and a Samoan Congregational Church parish

 

[FireDragon76]

I have been part of many UCC parishes in the greater Boston area over the past 17+ years. I have had the pleasure of visiting Park Street Church (where I attended as a visitor for a semester while in seminary). My own views reside in a moderate place between the CCCC and some of the craziness that happens in left-leaning UCC circles. Things like "God is still speaking" and "Open and Affirming" can, at least in my humble understanding, be interpreted in a way consistent with Christian tradition / Scripture and can also be used a license to go off in a completely wrong direction (like it just did in the general synod). I have ended up frustrated that I cannot seem to find that healthy balance between extremes.

I'd like to hear more about your observations on that point, since I have only limited experience with the UCC. I go to a UCC church but I have no idea if it's typical or not. It seems to be less than fully coherent in alot of ways- I'm not totally happy with it, but I feel like I have few choices in the Orlando area (one of the more conservative religiously in the country, even though it's one of the most blue cities in Florida- alot of people here are dechurched/unchurched, but most mainline churches here are heavily steeped in American Evangelicalism), and I do admit the people are worth fellowshipping with. I'm just not necessarily completely on board with how they do church.

I grew up in middle of the road mainline Protestant experiences, not completely unlike my UCC congregation, but slightly more conservative and liturgical. Mostly in more northerly places, not in the deep south.

I agree with you also that "God's Still Speaking" or being "Open and affirming" can be interpreted in a way that's more consistent with Christian tradition, or it can just be used to "go off the rails" even more, so to speak. It really comes down to that theological incoherence I mentioned earlier, I suspect.

 

[AgapeBible]

I recently started going to a Church of Christ with my dad. I am used to Southern Baptist churches. I have noticed Church of Christ do not use musical instruments, like an organ for worship. They sing accapella, with just their voices. I miss an organ, but that's ok. They have communion every Sunday. They do not have an invitation to get saved after the end of the service. They do not allow women to preach, I am not sure if they have women Sunday school teachers, I have not been to their Sunday school yet. The baptist are the same way, women are not allow to be ministers. I think the preachers are not licensed ministers, they don't study go to school to get a degree to be a minister,, men who are considered 'old enough' or 'wise enough' are allowed to preach. So it does not matter whether they are educated or have a degree, have gone to theology school, just someone ho is male, reads the Bible, of a certain age... I don't like that, I'd like to have a reverend who went to Bible college, university, knows what they're talking about.

I have the same problem with Baptists, why can't women preach and be ordained ministers? God used several brave and righteous women in the Bible to serve him. There were women in the early church who served God faithfully, there were female deacons. Sometimes women gave their lives for Jesus, alongside their Christian brothers. Paul promoted order in the church by ordering the women to be quiet, so that they could hear the speaker, I imagine he would want the men to be quiet as well so they could hear him speak the gospel. Women like to talk, they must have been excited at these new radical beliefs about love and forgiveness, kindness, mercy, humility, poverty, heavenliness over wordliness and vanity. I listen to the speaker and try to take notes when I am in church. You know, when I was a kid I really did not like going to church, but now I love the Lord and find Sunday mornings an exciting opportunity to hear God's word.

 

[FireDragon76]

I recently started going to a Church of Christ with my dad. I am used to Southern Baptist churches. I have noticed Church of Christ do not use musical instruments, like an organ for worship. They sing accapella, with just their voices. I miss an organ, but that's ok. They have communion every Sunday. They do not have an invitation to get saved after the end of the service. They do not allow women to preach, I am not sure if they have women Sunday school teachers, I have not been to their Sunday school yet. The baptist are the same way, women are not allow to be ministers. I think the preachers are not licensed ministers, they don't study go to school to get a degree to be a minister,, men who are considered 'old enough' or 'wise enough' are allowed to preach. So it does not matter whether they are educated or have a degree, have gone to theology school, just someone ho is male, reads the Bible, of a certain age... I don't like that, I'd like to have a reverend who went to Bible college, university, knows what they're talking about.

I have the same problem with Baptists, why can't women preach and be ordained ministers? God used several brave and righteous women in the Bible to serve him. There were women in the early church who served God faithfully, there were female deacons. Sometimes women gave their lives for Jesus, alongside their Christian brothers. Paul promoted order in the church by ordering the women to be quiet, so that they could hear the speaker, I imagine he would want the men to be quiet as well so they could hear him speak the gospel. Women like to talk, they must have been excited at these new radical beliefs about love and forgiveness, kindness, mercy, humility, poverty, heavenliness over wordliness and vanity. I listen to the speaker and try to take notes when I am in church. You know, when I was a kid I really did not like going to church, but now I love the Lord and find Sunday mornings an exciting opportunity to hear God's word.

The Church of Christ is a completely separate religious group from the United Church of Christ.

The United Church of Christ is a broadly Reformed church that tends to be much more liberal socially and theologically (though this can vary from congregation to congregation), and they do ordain women as pastors, and have done so for a relatively long time.