American Baptist Churches USA

[PrincetonGuy]

Are the 1.5 million Baptists worshiping our savior in 5,800 congregations belonging to American Baptist Churches USA really Baptists? Here is the link to their official website:

http://www.abc-usa.org/whoweare/default.aspx

 

[TwistTim]

They are Baptists in the same way United Methodists are Methodists... Both are Liberal Groups that keep getting more Liberal to try and get people in... forget the message, we want numbers..... Sadly many Southern Baptists are guilty of that problem to... as are Primitive baptists and Free Will Baptists.... When Armenian Doctrine rules the church... it's easy for the church to get swayed by any stray opinion that sounds good....

 

[ImmersionX]

My SBC affiliated church is conservative all the way.
The Word and only the Word my friend.


Peace and God Bless.

 

[holyrokker]

Our church used to be part of the ABC - We left them a couple of years ago and are now part of Transformation Ministries Covenant Churches http://www.transmin.org

 

[MrJim]

YO~I've been attending ABC-USA for four years now. Our pastor is a conservate Gordon-Conwell grad. When I ask him and the lifelong member deacon about all the weird lib stuff they say that congregations vary from town to town, from region to region. There's an ABC pastor over at Baptist Boards that says the same thing~he once told me that you don't join a denomination, you join a congregation, in baptist churches. So before y'all wanna get out the torches just keep it this in mind

 

[ImmersionX]

Yeah every "denomination" around has the conservative vs liberal thing going on....it's really for each autonomous church to decide eh?

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

Here is a link to a very liberal ABC church near me. They embrace homosexuality and other religions. They have a female pastor who has signed The Clergy Letter supporting Charles Darwin. I'm glad my church is Independent.

 

[arunma]

Are the 1.5 million Baptists worshiping our savior in 5,800 congregations belonging to American Baptist Churches USA really Baptists? Here is the link to their official website:

http://www.abc-usa.org/whoweare/default.aspx

My understanding has also been that they tend towards liberalism. As Jim pointed out there are exceptions, and I suppose that this is true in any liberal denomination. Where I live there's a Biblically-grounded United Methodist Church. We also had a poster on Semper Reformanda awhile back who claimed to be a Calvinist in a PCUSA church (don't know if this was a reflection on his local church in any way, though).

They are Baptists in the same way United Methodists are Methodists... Both are Liberal Groups that keep getting more Liberal to try and get people in... forget the message, we want numbers..... Sadly many Southern Baptists are guilty of that problem to... as are Primitive baptists and Free Will Baptists.... When Armenian Doctrine rules the church... it's easy for the church to get swayed by any stray opinion that sounds good....

What makes this so interesting is that it has actually had the opposite effect. Dr. John Piper has a most interesting blog post called Dying Protestantism. What's interesting is not just the half-page post itself, but an article by Joseph Bottum that he links to. It's about a half-hour read, but well worth it. It's written from a secular perspective (at least as far as I can tell), and analyzes Western Protestantism from a non-evangelical perspective. Interestingly, he comes to many of the same conclusions as us. But the focus of his article is that Western mainline churches sought unity and cut out many of their essential doctrines in order to make themselves more politically recognized. But in the end they lost their prophetic voice, and now no one cares what they think. Their membership has suffered greatly, and the bulk of their members are older in age. To borrow from Scripture, the writing is on the wall: most of these churches are about to disappear. That's the fruit of their effort to increase their numbers at the cost of doctrine.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Here is a link to a very liberal ABC church near me. They embrace homosexuality and other religions. They have a female pastor who has signed The Clergy Letter supporting Charles Darwin. I'm glad my church is Independent.

Judson Memorial Baptist Church is an atypical American Baptist Church on a number of issues, including its embracing of homosexuality. The official position of the denomination is that they are a Biblical people who “submit to the teaching of Scripture that God's design for sexual intimacy places it within the context of marriage between one man and one woman, and acknowledge that the practice of homosexuality is incompatible with Biblical teaching.”

http://www.abc-usa.org/identity/idstate.html

 

[Saint_Rita]

They are Baptists in the same way United Methodists are Methodists... Both are Liberal Groups that keep getting more Liberal to try and get people in... forget the message, we want numbers..... Sadly many Southern Baptists are guilty of that problem to... as are Primitive baptists and Free Will Baptists.... When Armenian Doctrine rules the church... it's easy for the church to get swayed by any stray opinion that sounds good....

Well I will say that the Free Will Baptist church I belong to is about as conservative as I've seen anywhere! I have attended the two SBC churches in town... one is conservative (but not as conservative as my FWB) and the other is much more liberal.

I have been to both conservative and liberal Methodist churches... the one in our town is very liberal.

 

[Ringo84]

"Not Baptist" according to whom? The SBC?
Ringo

 

[cubanito]

"Not Baptist" according to whom? The SBC?
Ringo

According to John the Baptist, you silly man..

Easy now, that was only a joke

JR

 

[cubanito]

They are Baptists in the same way United Methodists are Methodists... Both are Liberal Groups that keep getting more Liberal to try and get people in... forget the message, we want numbers..... Sadly many Southern Baptists are guilty of that problem to... as are Primitive baptists and Free Will Baptists.... When Armenian Doctrine rules the church... it's easy for the church to get swayed by any stray opinion that sounds good....

Whichever your stand on Arminian/Calvinist stuff, it is irrelevant to this thread. There are plenty of Reformed denoms that are way out there.

JR

 

[TwistTim]

Whichever your stand on Arminian/Calvinist stuff, it is irrelevant to this thread. There are plenty of Reformed denoms that are way out there.

JR

With all Due Respect Sir, I disagree... and I defer to C.H. Spurgeon on how relavent it is... if you will look up The Down Grade Controversy.... you will see that churches that abandoned Calvinism which is really Paul's teachings in Romans... are connected with, and frequently fall into liberalism and losing their way....


By the Way, I'm not saying it doesn't happen in Reformed circles... and I typed that statement in a rush, so if I made it look like Reformed Churches are perfect, I apologize.....
but those churches like PCUSA that it happens in have given up some of the key Reformed doctrines to go that way....

And this discourse is of great importance to Baptists.... because we all come from Two Groups... General and Particular Baptists.... General Baptists believed in General Salvation (Armenists) and Particulars beleived in Particular Redemption (Calvinists).... To many Baptists want to ignore the Particular's Influence while claiming the Prince of Preachers as a Baptist... but ignore his Doctrines....

Those two groups mereged, and in America there was only one Baptist Church until one Church member decieded to go form his own group... and that was the first Church spilt and first Baptist Denominational Division in America.... and it was over this issue.... that church became liberal.....


Anyways... moving on to modern day context.... the American (or Northern) Baptist Group has always been Armenist in Theoligical Understanding.... and has always followed prevalent winds of change... one time it came close to conservativism with a small conservative resuregence like the Southern Baptist one, but somewhere along the way... that must have been defeated for this group to have gained power....

I weep for my true brothers caught in that group, and urge them to get out and find a solid church....

 

[FreeinChrist]

There is no doubt in my mind that the American Baptist Convention is Baptist. According to this statement of beliefs, they not only believe in a Triune God, and the death and resurrection fo Christ, but they also believe in these Baptist distinctives:

1. The Bible as "the most authoritative guide....reveals our faith and its mandated practice"
2. The priesthood of the believer
3. Believer's baptism as symbolic of a new life
4. The Lord's Supper as commemorative of the sacrifice our Lord made.
and according to the identity statement, they believe in
5. religious liberty
6. the separation of church and state

The identity statement also states:

A Biblical people
Who submit to the teaching of Scripture that God's design for sexual intimacy places it within the context of marriage between one man and one woman, and acknowledge that the practice of homosexuality is incompatible with Biblical teaching.

Baptists include Arminians and Calvinists, and those who are neither. And Baptists can be liberal, moderate or conservative in their political views.

 

[SteveR2021]

YO~I've been attending ABC-USA for four years now. Our pastor is a conservate Gordon-Conwell grad. When I ask him and the lifelong member deacon about all the weird lib stuff they say that congregations vary from town to town, from region to region. There's an ABC pastor over at Baptist Boards that says the same thing~he once told me that you don't join a denomination, you join a congregation, in baptist churches. So before y'all wanna get out the torches just keep it this in mind

This is the very situation we ar facing in Canada. Every congregation is different. Unfortunately, however, the liberal movement seems to be gaining strength and those who stand for the fundamentals of the faith are increasingly in the minority.

 

[MrJim]

This is the very situation we ar facing in Canada. Every congregation is different. Unfortunately, however, the liberal movement seems to be gaining strength and those who stand for the fundamentals of the faith are increasingly in the minority.

Yeah, I hear ya. I've never joined~don't plan to. I asked the Pastor once why he stays in such a lib denom and he said that if all the conservative people leave who'll speak up for the truth. He ministered in conservative ABC congregations and just stayed with it~wimpy liberal he is not (don't think Gordon-Conwell allows 'em )

 

[nzguy]

A gripe I have had with this website definition of Baptists is-

they have left out the ABA - the American Baptist Association..

I think I know why..

it is because of the fact that most churches in this association hold to Trail of Blood type heritage.. and thus the definers think they should be anabaptists..

but then when people like me, who go to a church that is affiliated with ABA go to the anabaptist forum.. what do we find?

more people claiming the Trail of Blood heritage is bogus!

well......... consider this:

Defending anabaptists from Trail of Blood heritage.. The Trail of Blood heritage is false history? Really? Have a read of this:

The Origin and Perpetuity of the Baptists
The Baptist Examiner

​

From:http://www.pbministries.org/History/...perpetuity.htm


Proving that Baptists are linked with the Anabaptists, Waldenses, Donatists, Novatians, etc., is not too important. Of course, it is important that Baptists be linked with the church which has descended from Christ, but whether all (or any of) these groups named were the expressions of Christ’s church in their day and age, we do not definitely know.



No doubt some of the churches in these groups were not sound in the faith, just as many churches among Baptists today are not sound. But there is great possibility and strong indication from what history is recorded of them, that these Anabaptists and Waldenses and other groups held to the same truths for which the churches of the New Testament stood. That in some of these groups there were things which are not in harmony with what we believe to be New Testament teaching is not denied. But let us remember that what is recorded in history as being the position of a certain group does not mean that the entire group or even the majority of the group held to such.



Furthermore, let it be remembered that right along side these groups who had some error mixed with truth we do not know that there weren’t other churches that were entirely free from the error and held solely to the truth Today a person could go into a church called Baptist and hear many things which sound Baptists do not believe. If that person were to judge all Baptists by this one church he would have a wrong impression. Now this is exactly what happened in many instances in ages past, no doubt.When someone points to some inconsistency on the part of a certain group, we say, "Prove that all the churches held to that. Prove that there were not other churches standing against this error."


Also, it should be remembered that most history has been written by the enemies of Baptists. Baptists, as a result of persecution, were unable to do much by way of writing. They were too busy seeking a place to worship without persecution to give time to write; and furthermore, they were poor people and unable to buy equipment to print or pay for the printing.

One more fortunate Baptist brother wrote a little tract in which he said: "We that have most truth are persecuted, and therefore most poor; whereby we are unable to write and print, or we would, against the adversaries of truth. It is hard for us to get our daily bread with our weak bodies and feeble hands. How, then, should we have means to defray other charges, and to write and print?" (The Origin of Baptists by S. F. Ford, page 20) .

So this is a bit of a side issue, I know. But it does relate to the ABC.. because their is a difference between the ABA and the ABC.. the ABA rejects calvinism, and has no universal church doctrine, so there may be alot of churches that unconsciously get lumped with the ABC which are actually ABA or even MBC churches.

 

[DeaconDean]

nm

 

[DeaconDean]

A gripe I have had with this website definition of Baptists is-

they have left out the ABA - the American Baptist Association..

A little FYI:

American Baptist Statement of faith http://www.abc-usa.org/identity/bible.html

Its been in the "sticky" area for 6 months now.

God Bless

Till all are one.