Acts 8:9-24; Simon Magnus and Apostasy

[DeaconDean]

Read the account of the sorcerer Simon Magnus:

"Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity. Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the LORD for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me." -Acts 8:13-24 (KJV)

As some of you may already know, my ex-brother-in-law (Spiritwarrior37) and myself, are researching some facts preparing ourselves for a (hopefully) televised debate on several subjects. Apostasy is the subject I'm going to be researching.

Now, according to these two ministers, they taught:

The Teachings of the Scriptures

-Apostasy - "A standing away; a falling away" (1 Tim. 4:1; 2 Thes. 2:3)


-True believers, by sinning, jepordize their souls:

• Acts 8:12-13, 18-24 - Simon was a Christian in danger of perishing (v. 20). He was in the bondage of sin (v. 23) because his heart was not right before God (v. 21).

According to John L. Dagg:

Various forms of expression are employed in the Scriptures, to denote the change of heart; and they signify it with various shades of meaning.. It is taking away the heart of stone, and giving a heart of flesh;[122] giving a new heart;[123] putting the law in the heart;[124] quickening or making alive;[125] a resurrection from the dead; an illumination;[126] a conversion, or turning back to God.[127] So great is the change produced, that the subject of it is called a new creature,[128] as if proceeding, like Adam, directly from the creating hand of God; and he is said to be renewed,[129] as being restored to the image of God, in which man was originally formed. With reference to the mode in which the descendants of Adam come into the world, the change is denominated regeneration;[130] and the subjects of it are said to be born again.[131]

[122] Ezek. xxxvi. 26.

[123] Ezek. xviii. 31.

[124] Heb. viii. 10.

[125] John vi. 63; Eph. ii. 1; Rom. vi. 11, 13.

[126] Heb. x. 32.

[127] Ps. li. 13; Matt. xviii. 3; Ps. xxv. 16; Isaiah lix. 20.

[128] 2 Cor. v. 17; Gal. vi. 15.

[129] Col. iii. 10; Rom. xii. 2; Tit. iii. 5.

[130] Tit. iii. 5.

[131] John iii. 3, 7; 1 Pet. i. 23.

John L. Dagg, Manual of Theology, Book 7, Chapter 4, Regeneration.

http://www.freegrace.net/library/dagg/bk7c3.html#sec4

Lets look at this logically putting aside our differences as far as Calvinist and Arminian are concerned.

1) Prove to me that Simon Magnus was a Christian in the first place. It is just my humble opinion, but I am assuming that they are considering that he was a Christian because it says:

"Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized," -Acts 8:13 (KJV)

Just because one believes and is baptized, does not necessarily mean they are saved. Does not the Bible also teach:

"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." -Jas. 2:19 (KJV)

For more examples, I refer you to the parable of the sower.

Now, prove to me that Simon Magnus was saved in the first place.

2) Seeing the Apostle Peter laying on of hands and the Holy Spirit coming on believers, Simon says:

"And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost." -Acts 8:18-19 (KJV)

If as the CoC teach, you are saved and baptized, then you would have the Holy Spirit upon you. (cf. Acts 2:38) Here we see very clearly that Simon Magnus does have the Holy Spirit residing in him. For he thought the Holy Spirit was some sort of "magical power" that could be bought. He clearly had not been "enlightened." All I see is a man who wanted more "magical power" to influence the crowds with.

3) Peter rebukes him saying:

"Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity." -Acts 8:20-23 (KJV)

According to John L. Dagg, regeneration includes:

taking away the heart of stone, and giving a heart of flesh; giving a new heart; an illumination;

Now, as I read the scriptures, several things jump right out at me. One of the evidences of regeneration is being given a "new heart." (cf. Psa. 51:10; Eze. 36:26) Peter flatly tells Simon that his heart is not right before God. Clearly Simon had not experienced regeneration.

Peter tells him that he is wicked and "in the gall of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity." Further proof that Simon had not been saved in the first place., neither did he really repent.

John L. Dagg also says:

We know, from the Holy Scriptures, that God employs his truth in the regeneration of the soul. "Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth."[135] Love to God necessarily implies knowledge of God, and this knowledge it is the province of truth to impart. But knowledge is not always connected with love. The devils know, but do not love; and wicked men delight not to retain the knowledge of God,[136] because their knowledge of him is not connected with love.

[135] James i. 18.

[136] Rom. i. 28

Ibid

We see here that Simon had no knowledge either. No knowledge of God, no knowledge of the Holy Spirit neither.

So I submit to you that Simon Magnus was not saved in the first place. Neither was he a "Christain." Scriptures proved that he was saved to start with. He hadn't had the change of heart, and because he was the bondage of iniquity, this just further proves that Simon Magnus was not saved not could be considered a Christian to begin with.

So, considering the facts from scriptures, considering that Simpn Magnus was not regenerated, and was not a Christian to begin with, how con you use him as an example of apostasy?

I further submit that since Simon Magnus was not saved when he believed and was baptized, that he had no salvation or faith to "fall away" from to begin with.

Simon Magnus was not an apostate! How in the world can you "fall away" from something which you never posessed in the first place?

They also teach, rather, imply, that if you sin, then you stand condemned automatically. And as proof, they taught:

-Galatians 2:11-14 - Because of his hyprocrisy, the apostle Peter 'stood condemned (v. 11). He was not walking according to the truth of the gospel (v. 14)

Now on the surface, they are correct, but, they do not consider that even as Christians, we can still sin. Isn't that the essence that Paul tries to teach in Romans 7:14-21?

Now prove to me that Peter had apostasized at this moment.

They go further to say:

-2 Pet. 2:20-22 - One who has escaped defilement, is again overcome in sin. He turn(ed) back from the holy commandment.

B.H. Carroll points out:

Peter expressly declares that baptism does not put away the filth of the flesh, using the term "filth" in the sense of spiritual defilement (not dirt on the body), and using the word "flesh" in its common meaning of the carnal nature (not the physical man). I think Peter in that little parenthesis, "not the putting away of the filth of the flesh," was inspired of God to put in a precaution against attributing to baptism real cleansing of the defilement of sin. He foresaw the coming of the Campbellites, and put in a word against them.
The third group of scriptures is apparently connected with regeneration: (a) "Except one be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" (John 3:5). (b) "According to his mercy he saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit" (Titus 3:5). (c) "Christ also loved the church, and gave himself up for it; that he might sanctify it, having cleansed it by the washing of water with the word" (Ephesians 5:25).
These three passages constitute the third group of scriptures. For a full explanation of John 3:5, see author's first volume of sermons, page 181, on, The Human Side of Regeneration. The following is a quotation from it:

He must be "born of water and Spirit." There is just one birth, "born of water and Spirit;" and it means exactly what "born again" means; and it means exactly what "born of the Spirit" means; and it means exactly what "born of God" means; just that and no more. Then, if it means just that, why put it in this form: "born of water and Spirit"? I will tell you why. In the new birth there are at least two distinct ideas: (1) cleansing; (2) renewing. If you took only the idea of cleansing and left out the renewing, cleansing would not do any good. The sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mire, -- because she is a sow. If you do not change her nature, then you do no good to cleanse her, but if you change the nature and do not cleanse, then you have left purity imprisoned in filth. So there are two ideas always, at least two, in the new birth: (1) cleansing; (2) renewing.
​

THE THEORY OF BAPTISMAL REGENERATION, B. H. Carroll , A Interpretation of the English Bible, Acts 2:38​

http://www.geocities.com/baptist_documents/carroll.theory.bapt.regen.html​

They also teach:​

-Luke 18:23 - Those who hear and receive the word, can believe for a while, yet in time of temptation 'fall away.'

I further submit to you that in Luke 18:18-23, the rich young ruler was never saved in the first place neither. Neither did Jesus' words take root in his life. There is no sign here that the rich young ruler believed, repented, had any other life changing evidences.​

"Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?...Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich." -Luke 18:18 (KJV)​

How can this rich young ruler be proof of apostasy?​

What did he have to fall away from?​

So, prove to me that Simon Magnus was saved and was a Christian in the first place.

Prove to me that he apostasized.

Prove to me that the rich young ruler was saved and therefore apostasized.

One more minor point I might add.

They also taught:

The impossibility of apostasy began in the Garden of Eden, when the devil told the woman 'Ye shall not surely die' (Gen. 3:4), although God had told Adam and Eve, 'Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die' (Gen. 3:3)

I submit that they are twisting scriptures to fit their own needs.

They are teaching that Satan told Eve what he did in verse 4 before Eve told Satan what she did in verse 3.

Genesis 2:

"And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." -Gen 2:15-17 (KJV)

I further submit that they are wrong because it was not forbidden for Adam to touch the tree of the knowledge of good and evil because God told him one of his duties was to dress and to keep the garden.

Yes, it was forbidden to eat from the tree, but it was not forbidden to touch it.

Then they go on to say:

Salvation is secured when they live live by faith. (cf. 1 Pet. 1:3-5; 2 Pet. 1:5-11; John 8:31-32; 10:27-29)

They go on further to say this is illustrated in the examples of Nathan, Dathan, and Abhiu. Because they did not obey the commands of God, the earth open up and swallowed them and those who followed after them. If you do not obey the commands of God, you will be consumed and destroyed.

I am going to use the example of Moses to dispute this:

"And there was no water for the congregation: and they gathered themselves together against Moses and against Aaron. And the people chode with Moses, and spake, saying, Would God that we had died when our brethren died before the LORD! And why have ye brought up the congregation of the LORD into this wilderness, that we and our cattle should die there? And wherefore have ye made us to come up out of Egypt, to bring us in unto this evil place? it is no place of seed, or of figs, or of vines, or of pomegranates; neither is there any water to drink. And Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they fell upon their faces: and the glory of the LORD appeared unto them. And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink. And Moses took the rod from before the LORD, as he commanded him. And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock? And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also. And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them." - Numbers 20:2-14 (KJV)

Here Moses was told by God to take his rod, and before the whole congregation, speak to the rock, and it would bring forth water. Moses disobeyed God and took the rod and struck the rock. Not once, but twice.

Here Moses disobeyed God's command. Was Moses consumed and destroyed?

I think not.

Opinions?

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[psalm511013]

I further submit that they are wrong because it was not forbidden for Adam to touch the tree of the knowledge of good and evil because God told him one of his duties was to dress and to keep the garden.

Yes, it was forbidden to eat from the tree, but it was not forbidden to touch it.

Opinions?

God Bless

Till all are one.

Nothing to add to the rest of it, Dean. Excellent stuff. I haven't been around for over a year (lots of changes!) but as always you are quite sound exegetically. The only thing I could potentially add is to the passage I've quoted. You are quite right, it was not forbidden to touch it. The word "touch" is the Hebrew naga' which means to touch as though to usurp, or apply like an ointment. In other words, to make application of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil would be to use that knowledge, to put it to the test. God did not forbid this. But He did forbid us to "eat" (Heb., 'akal) or "consume, devour, destroy." In other words, eating of the fruit would actually destroy us from within. Such knowledge would be too great for us to bear, and just as looking upon God would cause us to drop dead on the spot, the knowledge -- the great responsibility -- of knowing good and evil would kill us outright. Imagine looking on our wives or our children with the knowledge of what lies within their hearts and souls, the sin nature that lurks within all of us, but without the divine mind of God to filter out that blackness and see that which He has planted within us, the human spirit that can and does link to the Holy Spirit for divine guidance. We can touch that which God gives us, measure it through His words to us, but to possess that knowledge in our frail minds, bodies and spirits would bring us to a quick end.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Acts 8:4. Therefore, those who had been scattered went about preaching the word.
5. Philip went down to the city of Samaria and began proclaiming Christ to them.
6. The crowds with one accord were giving attention to what was said by Philip, as they heard and saw the signs which he was performing.
7. For in the case of many who had unclean spirits, they were coming out of them shouting with a loud voice; and many who had been paralyzed and lame were healed.
8. So there was much rejoicing in that city.
9. Now there was a man named Simon, who formerly was practicing magic in the city and astonishing the people of Samaria, claiming to be someone great;
10. and they all, from smallest to greatest, were giving attention to him, saying, "This man is what is called the Great Power of God."
11. And they were giving him attention because he had for a long time astonished them with his magic arts.
12. But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike.
13. Even Simon himself believed; and after being baptized, he continued on with Philip, and as he observed signs and great miracles taking place, he was constantly amazed.
14. Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John,
15. who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.
16. For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
17. Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.
18. Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was bestowed through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money,
19. saying, "Give this authority to me as well, so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit."
20. But Peter said to him, "May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money!
21. "You have no part or portion in this matter, for your heart is not right before God.
22. "Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you.
23. "For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bondage of iniquity."
24. But Simon answered and said, "Pray to the Lord for me yourselves, so that nothing of what you have said may come upon me." (NASB, 1995)

We can see from this passage that Simon was a baptized believer (v. 13) in Christ who had repented of his former life style and occupation (v. 9) and even, for a while, became a follower of Philip the evangelist (v. 13). Like all too many baptized believers in Christ, however, he succumbed to temptation. He probably missed all the attention that he had been getting as magician (vv. 10-11) and even more the ability to perform magic and he offered Peter and John money for the authority to bestow the Holy Spirit upon fellow believers by laying his hands upon them. Peter and John were greatly offended by the offer and interpreted it to be an act of wickedness. Had Peter and John not viewed Simon as a fellow believer, their reaction would probably have been very different, but seeing a fellow believer do such a thing, they very strongly rebuked him.

Luke does not expressly tell us that Peter and John had already laid their hands upon Simon so that the Holy Spirit would be bestowed upon him, but it is unthinkable that Simon would have let such an opportunity pass him by. In all likelihood, he had received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and wanted the power to bestow it upon his fellow believers for the sake of having the power and for the sake of the attention that it would have brought him.

Simon Magus (as he is known in history) is not mentioned again in the New Testament but early Christian writers, including Justin Martyr (also a Samaritan), Jerome, and Irenaeus, wrote that his apostasy continued throughout his life. One might wonder if the course this man’s life might have been better if Peter and John had dealt with him in a more loving and compassionate manner rather than casting at him such a very strong rebuke.

 

[DeaconDean]

Acts 8:4. Therefore, those who had been scattered went about preaching the word.
5. Philip went down to the city of Samaria and began proclaiming Christ to them.
6. The crowds with one accord were giving attention to what was said by Philip, as they heard and saw the signs which he was performing.
7. For in the case of many who had unclean spirits, they were coming out of them shouting with a loud voice; and many who had been paralyzed and lame were healed.
8. So there was much rejoicing in that city.
9. Now there was a man named Simon, who formerly was practicing magic in the city and astonishing the people of Samaria, claiming to be someone great;
10. and they all, from smallest to greatest, were giving attention to him, saying, "This man is what is called the Great Power of God."
11. And they were giving him attention because he had for a long time astonished them with his magic arts.
12. But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike.
13. Even Simon himself believed; and after being baptized, he continued on with Philip, and as he observed signs and great miracles taking place, he was constantly amazed.
14. Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John,
15. who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.
16. For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
17. Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.
18. Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was bestowed through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money,
19. saying, "Give this authority to me as well, so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit."
20. But Peter said to him, "May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money!
21. "You have no part or portion in this matter, for your heart is not right before God.
22. "Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you.
23. "For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bondage of iniquity."
24. But Simon answered and said, "Pray to the Lord for me yourselves, so that nothing of what you have said may come upon me." (NASB, 1995)

We can see from this passage that Simon was a baptized believer (v. 13) in Christ who had repented of his former life style and occupation (v. 9) and even, for a while, became a follower of Philip the evangelist (v. 13). Like all too many baptized believers in Christ, however, he succumbed to temptation. He probably missed all the attention that he had been getting as magician (vv. 10-11) and even more the ability to perform magic and he offered Peter and John money for the authority to bestow the Holy Spirit upon fellow believers by laying his hands upon them. Peter and John were greatly offended by the offer and interpreted it to be an act of wickedness. Had Peter and John not viewed Simon as a fellow believer, their reaction would probably have been very different, but seeing a fellow believer do such a thing, they very strongly rebuked him.

Luke does not expressly tell us that Peter and John had already laid their hands upon Simon so that the Holy Spirit would be bestowed upon him, but it is unthinkable that Simon would have let such an opportunity pass him by. In all likelihood, he had received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and wanted the power to bestow it upon his fellow believers for the sake of having the power and for the sake of the attention that it would have brought him.

Simon Magus (as he is known in history) is not mentioned again in the New Testament but early Christian writers, including Justin Martyr (also a Samaritan), Jerome, and Irenaeus, wrote that his apostasy continued throughout his life. One might wonder if the course this man’s life might have been better if Peter and John had dealt with him in a more loving and compassionate manner rather than casting at him such a very strong rebuke.

You see, I disagree.

Since when is believing and baptism the only requirments for salvation?

who had repented of his former life style and occupation (v. 9)

I see no evidence of repentance in verse 9:

"But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:" -Acts 8:9 (KJV)

Or even in verse 13:

"Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done." -v. 13

Show me repentance in those two verses.

And just because one believes and is baptized, does that automatically make them saved?

So if I understand you and these ministers correctly, the demons believe and tremble (Jas. 2:19), if I were to baptize them, they would be saved.

I have seen a number of people come forward and say they believe and been baptized, and then go right back out in the world.

So when, pray tell, does believing and baptism make one saved?

Now you agreed with me that Hodge had it right on the work of the Holy Spirit in salvation and that He only indwells permanantly after regeneration and conversion, faith and repentance.

I don't see where Simon had the Holy Spirit indwelling to begin with.

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." -1 Cor. 2:14 (KJV)

Simon Magnus did not have the enlightenment that comes with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

And for further proof, Peter rebukes him telling him:

"thy heart is not right in the sight of God." -v. 21

Where was the "new heart" that is spoken of in scripture?

He was still in the bondage of sin:

"in the bond of iniquity." -v. 23

Phillip preached the gospel, yes. But Peter preached to Simon repentance!

"Repent therefore" -v. 22

Simon Magnus was not saved in the first place.

None of the evidences for regeneration listed by J.L. Dagg are seen in Simon Magnus:

taking away the heart of stone, and giving a heart of flesh; giving a new heart; putting the law in the heart; quickening or making alive; a resurrection from the dead; an illumination; a conversion, or turning back to God...born again.

Simon Magnus was not saved in the first place, therefore, he had nothing to fall away from except an empty faith.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

You see, I disagree.

Since when is believing and baptism the only requirments for salvation?



I see no evidence of repentance in verse 9:

"But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:" -Acts 8:9 (KJV)

Or even in verse 13:

"Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done." -v. 13

Show me repentance in those two verses.

I wrote,

"We can see from this passage that Simon was a baptized believer (v. 13) in Christ who had repented of his former life style and occupation (v. 9) and even, for a while, became a follower of Philip the evangelist (v. 13). "

Verse 9 reads, in the NASB, 1995,

9. Now there was a man named Simon, who formerly was practicing magic in the city and astonishing the people of Samaria, claiming to be someone great;

Verse 13 says nothing about his repentance.

 

[DeaconDean]

Once again, show me where it says he repented in verse 9 or even in verse 13.

All it says was that he believed and was baptized. Does that automatically make him a born again Christain?

Is not repentance one of the reqiurments for salvation?

Or are you also one of those who goes around preaching that you must believe and be baptized in order to be saved? (cf Mk. 16:16)

Strange that they would leave out Simon's repentance.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Once again, show me where it says he repented in verse 9 or even in verse 13.

All it says was that he believed and was baptized. Does that automatically make him a born again Christain?

Is not repentance one of the reqiurments for salvation?

Or are you also one of those who goes around preaching that you must believe and be baptized in order to be saved? (cf Mk. 16:16)

Strange that they would leave out Simon's repentance.

God Bless

Till all are one.

Acts 8:9 reads, in the NASB, 1995,

9. Now there was a man named Simon, who formerly was practicing magic in the city and astonishing the people of Samaria, claiming to be someone great;

Simon had been, in the past, practicing magic but he stopped doing so. That is repentance.

Verse 13 says nothing about his repentance, and I did not suggest that it does.

Thank you for your fellowship in this thread; may God richly bless you.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Once again, show me where it says he repented in verse 9 or even in verse 13.

All it says was that he believed and was baptized. Does that automatically make him a born again Christain?

Is not repentance one of the reqiurments for salvation?

Or are you also one of those who goes around preaching that you must believe and be baptized in order to be saved? (cf Mk. 16:16)

Strange that they would leave out Simon's repentance.

God Bless

Till all are one.

I like how you wrote the OP.

I always believed that salvation was when we were forgiven by God, when the Holy Spirit regenerated us, when God had looked at the true intent of our heart and accepted us. Not at our whim, though I beleive we must accept Him as our Lord and Saviour.
Simon Magus showed he never really believed - when he saw Peter and John laying hands on people, did he ask for them to lay hands on him? No - he offerred money to receive the power to do what they are doing. That showed he never stopped wanting to magnify himself - and isn't that is what Magnus meant. Didn't he present himself as a 'great one'? It is like he was equating the receiving of the Holy Spirit with the magic he had done before and wanted to learn the new trick, gain the power to do that trick. Peter recognized that Simon wasn't a believer after all. He said, "Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God."

And as to the baptism that Simon did experience, it says:
Act 8:16 For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Salvation occurs by the washing of the Holy Spirit, which at that time, needed to be received by the laying on of hands. It isn't water baptism that is regenerating but the washing of the Holy Spirit that is what saves.

 

[DeaconDean]

I'm really sorry PrincetonGuy, but I still disagree that Simon Magnus was a "Christian."

Lets backtrack for a minute.

Mr. John Crips says:

It is specifically stated by the scriptures that Simon did the same thing as these other people (those who Phillip was preaching to, the Samaritans) who came to believe in Christ Jesus.

Again, I must ask, when is believing the same as having faith?

My lexicon, the New Analytical Greek Lexicon, shows that believeing and faith are different.

Now I believe that unless Jesus returns in the next moment, at 7 am the sun will rise. But where does this believing equate to having faith?

Here all we can say for certain is that Simon simply believed without having faith. The same Greek word is used in James 2:19 when he speaks of the demons believing.

Believing does not equate to faith.

So to say that just because Simon Magnus "believed" (episteuss) does not mean he had faith (pistis).

Strike one.

J.L. Dagg says that one of the evidences of regeneration (being born again) is being given a "new heart".

Peter rebukes Simon saying:

"thy heart is not right in the sight of God." -Acts 8:21 (KJV)

Strike two.

Another evidence of regeneration is the power of Christ to break the bond of sin. (Rom. 6:18)

Simon had not had the bondage of sin broken:

"For I perceive that thou art in the...bond of iniquity." -Acts 8:23 (KJV)

Strike three.

Simon's sinful nature had not been changed neither. Along with the new birth, a new nature must be given also. Simon was a sorcerer by nature, and his nature had not been changed:

"Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost." -Acts 8:19 (KJV)

Simon by nature, was a socerer, and thinking the Holy Spirit was some sort of power that could be bought, shows his nature had not been changed neither. This is illustrated here:

"The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire." -2 Pet. 2:22 (KJV)

Strike four.

And even though Phillip was preaching the Gospel, repentance is a prerequisite for salvation. In Simon "believing and was baptized" we do not see any evidence of repentance.

Yet here later on, Peter rebukes Simon again and tells him he needs to:

"Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee." -Acts 8:22 (KJV)

Strike five.

Simon Magnus was not an Apostate for, he had nothing to fall away from. No faith, and no salvation.

Simon Magnus was not saved and therefore, cannot be proof of apostasy.

James P. Boyce teaches:

The question naturally arises what is the nature of conversion. In reply it may be said that it consists:


1. Not in mere outward reformation.

2. Not in return from backsliding.

3. But in the turning of the heart to God and holiness. It is a turning of the thoughts, desires and affections of the heart from sinful and carnal lusts and pleasures toward holy things, and God, and Christ, and salvation. It is a turning from darkness to light, from the power of Satan to God. [See Gill's Divinity 2:132-4.] It consists "in a man's turning actively to God under the influence of divine grace." [Gill 2:135]

IV. This conversion comprises:

1. A knowledge of the true God, and acceptance of him as such.

2. Knowledge of personal sin, guilt and condemnation.

3. Sorrow for sin and desire to escape condemnation.

4. Determination to turn away from sin and seek God.

5. Conviction of personal need of help in so doing.

6. Knowledge of Christ as a Saviour from sin.
7. Personal trust in Christ and his salvation.

James P. Boyce, Abstract of Systematic Theology, Chapter 32, Regeneration and Conversion

http://www.founders.org/library/boyce1/ch32.html

And I have yet read one thing in Acts 8:9-24 that would make me change my mind.

Simon Magnus was not regenerated, he was not saved, he was not converted, he did not show any evidences of regeneration, therefore, he cannot be an example of apostasy. He had nothing to "fall away" from in the first place except an empty, hollow faith.

God Bless

Till all are one.