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[jimmyjimmy]

.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Who is to say one has faith and the other does not?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Who is to say one has faith and the other does not?

I accidentally left out "more" as in more faith.

I'll rephrase: Which requires more faith?

 

[Noxot]

idc because when it comes to God I want him as much as I can have him so I have no time to figure out who has more faith. if having less faith means having more of God then let that be. I don't like this world and I want nothing to do with it. what I want is God and I wish to see his glory in this earth and it is a torture to not be sensing that God is with me.

but:

John 20:26-29 (YLT)
And after eight days, again were his disciples within, and Thomas with them; Jesus cometh, the doors having been shut, and he stood in the midst, and said, `Peace to you!' then he saith to Thomas, `Bring thy finger hither, and see my hands, and bring thy hand, and put it to my side, and become not unbelieving, but believing.' And Thomas answered and said to him, `My Lord and my God;' Jesus saith to him, `Because thou hast seen me, Thomas, thou hast believed; happy those not having seen, and having believed.'

but those who do not see see more than those who see because what is not seen is more than that which is seen. whatever it is that the Lord wills and desires for you and whatever it is that you desire. but if God will always be far away from me then i think I should die.

 

[Albion]

Good question, "thatbrian." I have no idea why some true believers--most, I assume--never experience anything like this. My quess is that those who claim they've had bedside visits, dreams that are actually prophesy, apparitions, or heard the literal voice of God are mistaken about it.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Good question, "thatbrian." I have no idea why some true believers--most, I assume--never experience anything like this. My quess is that those who claim they've had bedside visits, dreams that are actually prophesy, apparitions, or heard the literal voice of God are mistaken about it.

Most likely; however, I don't wish to rain on anyone's parade. I thought that it was an interesting point to discuss. I'm a thinker, so I ponder these things.

Please call me Brian. Only my mother-in-law refers to me as ThatBrian, but that's a story for another day.

 

[Albion]

Only my mother-in-law refers to me as ThatBrian, but that's a story for another day.

...as in "Oh, that Brian" I suppose.

Yes, your question is a good one, and I'd be interested to see where this goes. For myself, the answer I gave is the only one that makes sense to me, although I don't want to be haughty towards people who insist that they've had such experiences. And, of course, we'd all agree that they're possible.

 

[civilwarbuff]

I accidentally left out "more" as in more faith.

I'll rephrase: Which requires more faith?

Thank you, totallly different question.....

 

[jimmyjimmy]

...as in "Oh, that Brian" I suppose.

Yes, your question is a good one, and I'd be interested to see where this goes. For myself, the answer I gave is the only one that makes sense to me, although I don't want to be haughty towards people who insist that they've had such experiences. And, of course, we'd all agree that they're possible.

More like, "Oh, that Brian!"

Where there is room for discussion here is in the idea that the "frozen chosen" (me) have little faith, while those who are more experiential have much faith.

Should be an interesting discussion.

 

[toLiJC]

After being involved in a few threads about knowing God through the spectacular e.g. hearing His voice, miracles, etc. I began to wonder about those of us who have followed our Lord with no signs and wonders. We have lost friends and family because of our faith, yet we have never heard the voice of God speak directly to us (other than through His Word).

I was left with this question: Who actually has more faith, those who see (or hear) or those who don't?

the ones that don't see should be more acceptable to God

John 9:39-41 "And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind. And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also? Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.",

John 20:29 "blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.",

1 Corinthians 1:27-29 "God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence."

Blessings

 

[jimmyjimmy]

the ones that don't see should be more acceptable to God

John 9:39-41 "And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind. And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also? Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.",

John 20:29 "blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.",

1 Corinthians 1:27-29 "God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence."

Blessings

Thanks for bringing us scripture in your reply. Nice choice of texts.

 

[Job8]

I was left with this question: Who actually has more faith, those who see (or hear) or those who don't?

Jesus saith unto him,Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. (John 20:29).

 

[Rick Otto]

After being involved in a few threads about knowing God through the spectacular e.g. hearing His voice, miracles, etc. I began to wonder about those of us who have followed our Lord with no signs and wonders. We have lost friends and family because of our faith, yet we have never heard the voice of God speak directly to us (other than through His Word).

I was left with this question: Who actually has more faith, those who see (or hear) or those who don't?

Try and do both with this, sir:

[1] The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
[2] Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
[3] There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
[4] Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,


It's from Psalm 19. It illustrates God 'talking' with us. It's a vastly underrated miracle.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." (Hebrews 11:1)

 

[bornagain91]

FAITH, is he, she who stands by what they believe. Come hell or high water....SINK OR SWIM.

 

[Rick Otto]

After being involved in a few threads about knowing God through the spectacular e.g. hearing His voice, miracles, etc. I began to wonder about those of us who have followed our Lord with no signs and wonders. We have lost friends and family because of our faith, yet we have never heard the voice of God speak directly to us (other than through His Word).

I was left with this question: Who actually has more faith, those who see (or hear) or those who don't?

It may be impossible for any of us to determine from our position.
Maybe friends and family are lost because what think is our faith, is just sanctimony.

 

[JCFantasy23]

After being involved in a few threads about knowing God through the spectacular e.g. hearing His voice, miracles, etc. I began to wonder about those of us who have followed our Lord with no signs and wonders. We have lost friends and family because of our faith, yet we have never heard the voice of God speak directly to us (other than through His Word).

I was left with this question: Who actually has more faith, those who see (or hear) or those who don't?

I don't think you can measure it by that. God approaches differently since we're individuals and through his will. If one receives a different gift or hears a voice in prayer, it does not make them stronger in faith or more loved. There are too many who have hurt themselves thinking like that already, like those who think something's wrong with them if they can't speak in tongues, or doubt their salvation if they don't "feel" God enough in prayer.

 

[com7fy8]

Who actually has more faith, those who see (or hear) or those who don't?

Jesus does say that the one who believes without seeing is blessed.

There are people who only believe intellectually, whether they have seen or not seen. People can only in their own heads believe God's word without seeing, and then only get their own selves to do what they suppose God's word means. So, what matters is if we believe in our hearts, that Jesus is God's Son, died for our sins, and rose from the dead on the third day, and our believing needs to include trusting in Christ > Ephesians 1:12 > and obeying Him.

"But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." (1 Corinthians 6:17)

Faith is "faith working through love" > in Galatians 5:6.

I understand these scriptures mean that faith has each of us "one spirit with Him" in us, so Jesus in us is changing us to become like Him > Galatians 4:19, Ephesians 5:2. So, this is deeper than words - - - and can be deeper than how people can believe words by seeing or not seeing. Jesus in us is personally "one spirit with" each of us, changing us to be like Him and having us loving the way He loves through each of us. How this has us becoming is His love meaning of God's word, deeper and better than words alone can tell. We need how God in us does in us all He means by His word.

And, if a person is "one spirit with Him", a person can be personally guided by God in the person, "continually" (Isaiah 58:11), not only at times hearing from the LORD, or only trying at times to figure out, oneself, what the Bible is telling the person to do. But, all the time >

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

"To this end I also labor, striving according to His working which works in me mightily," (Colossians 1:29)

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

So, with Jesus in union with our spirit, we more and more constantly are seeking to be how He has us becoming in love (1 John 4:17), and "continually" in His love we can have His personal guiding; and I understand that God's continual guiding is not only by telling us what to do, but in us God works our willing and doing which He desires - - - more and more all the time, as much as we have been corrected (Hebrews 12:4-11) and are maturing in this.

And Paul says we are "called in one body" to be ruled by God's own peace > I understand that being ruled means all the time > 24/7 > in God's peace (Colossians 3:15) > this is a basic of our Christian calling "in one body", Paul says. This has us personal and intimate with God Himself in each of us personally ruling each of us, more and better as we grow in being submissive to Him. So, this is where scriptural believing will take us > to God Himself, submitting to Him deeper than any words or wonders.

So, Brian, if you compare how people believe with seeing, or not seeing, this can be not relevant to scriptural believing > because people seeing or not seeing can mainly depend on their own understanding (Proverbs 3:5-6) to get themselves to do what they think God is telling them to do. People can hear from God or think of what the Bible says, but then, either way not submit to how God has us do what He means. But I am not perfect in this > and God knows if I am real or not. So, now . . . I have my homework to do

 

[Albion]

More like, "Oh, that Brian!"

Where there is room for discussion here is in the idea that the "frozen chosen" (me) have little faith, while those who are more experiential have much faith.

Should be an interesting discussion.

You know, I'd never heard that term (frozen chosen) before...and then Gov. Huckabee used it in a joke this morning on TV.

 

[Greg J.]

How much faith in God one has is not a rating of a person's worth in God's eyes. It is a description of that person's relationship with God. We all have varying degrees of faith for different things. I might have faith that God will heal someone when I pray, but not have as much faith that he will provide me with a job if I relocate. Which is harder to believe? It depends on what your experiences with God have been.

We can influence what God does regarding our faith, but in the end God is the one who chooses to grant faith or not. Scripture calls it a gift, which means that no matter what we do, we don't deserve it. (Ephesians 2:8-9)

Much serious damage has been done to people who have been told they didn't/don't have enough faith. It is made to sound like something (sometimes a tragedy) was their fault, when in fact it may have had nothing whatsoever to do with their faith.

Believe what God said and let it influence your behavior, then you will be doing all you can for perfecting your faith. Your relationship with God will deepen, because having nervously chosen to believe God, you will see (eventually) that he was faithful. The more you experience this pattern, the more faith in God you will have for things you haven't experienced.

It is possible to get to the point in your relationship with God that he will give you whatever you ask for. (John 14:13, 15:7, 15:16, 16:23, and others) That he would do this is not a statement of his Santa Claus-like nature, but a statement of how much unity you have with him. You won't be asking for things that you can tell are not his will. Instead you will, more and more, recognize that God is already taking care of you in the best ways possible (we are greatly limited in our ability to receive from God [Malachi 3:10b]).

Being fully devoted to Jesus Christ is the best you can do to go in that direction, and are going to have to accept that there are consequences to thousands of years of worldwide sin that God isn't just going to make go away.