2 Timothy 2:18 "SOME SAYING RESURRECTION ALREADY BECAME"

[LittleLambofJesus]

Why would Paul have to say this to his followers concerning some saying the resurrection has already happened?
[which doesn't appear to occur until Revelation 20:5 "the first resurrection"?]

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

2 Timothy 2:18
who about the truth swerve<795>, saying the resurrection/ἀνάστασιν<386> already to have become/γεγονέναι<1096>
and they are subverting<396> the of-some<5100> faith.

become/γεγονέναι<1096>
Speech: Verb Parsing: Perfect Infinitive Active

18
οἵτινες περὶ τὴν ἀλήθειαν ἠστόχησαν, λέγοντες ἀνάστασιν ἤδη γεγονέναι,
καὶ ἀνατρέπουσιν τήν τινων πίστιν.
18
oitineV peri thn alhqeian hstochsan legonteV thn anastasin hdh gegonenai
kai anatrepousin thn tinwn pistin

386. anastasis an-as'-tas-is from 450;

a standing up again, i.e. (literally) a resurrection from death (individual, genitive case or by implication, (its author)), or (figuratively) a (moral) recovery (of spiritual truth):--raised to life again, resurrection, rise from the dead, that should rise, rising again.
795. astocheo from a compound of 1 (as a negative particle) and stoichos (an aim);
to miss the mark, i.e. (figuratively) deviate from truth:--err, swerve.
396. anatrepo from 303 and the base of 5157;
to overturn (figuratively):--overthrow, subvert.

Greek New Testament - Parallel Greek New Testament by John Hurt

Scrivener 1894 Textus Receptus
oitineV peri thn alhqeian hstochsan legonteV thn anastasin hdh gegonenai
kai anatrepousin thn tinwn pistin
Byzantine Majority
oitineV peri thn alhqeian hstochsan legonteV thn anastasin hdh gegonenai
kai anatrepousin thn tinwn pistin

I put a few bible versions up

2 Timothy 2:18
English Standard Version
who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some.
Berean Literal Bible
who have gone astray concerning the truth, asserting the resurrection already to have taken place; and they are overthrowing the faith of some.
Young's Literal Translation
who concerning the truth did swerve, saying the rising again to have already been, and do overthrow the faith of some
King James Bible
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Revelation 20 shows the Resurrection.

Revelation 20:5
The rest of the dead no they live until should be being finished<5055> the thousand years.
This the resurrection/ἀνάστασις <386>, the first.

20:5
οἱ λοιποὶ τῶν νεκρῶν οὐκ ἔζησαν ἄχρι τελεσθῇ1 τὰ χίλια2 ἔτη.
αὕτη ἡ ἀνάστασις ἡ πρώτη.

Scrivener 1894 Textus Receptus
oi de loipoi twn nekrwn ouk anezhsan ews telesqh ta cilia eth auth h anastasiV h prwth
Byzantine Majority
kai oi loipoi twn nekrwn ouk ezhsan acri telesqh ta cilia eth auth h anastasiV h prwth.


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[Dave-W]

18 men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some.

Revelation would not be written for several decades at that point. Our Lord spoke of the resurrection of the dead several times, as did the Pharisees before Him.

So some men were trying to lead people astray by saying it had already happened.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

18 men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some.

Revelation would not be written for several decades at that point. Our Lord spoke of the resurrection of the dead several times, as did the Pharisees before Him.

So some men were trying to lead people astray by saying it had already happened.

One of the main enemies of Jesus and Paul were the Sadducees because they didn't believe in a resurrection.

Reminds me of the time Paul took advantage of the division between the Sadduccees and Pharisees concerning the resurrection.

Acts 23:
3
Then Paul said to him, “God is about to strike you, whitewashed wall!
And you, do you sit judging me according to the Law, and, violating law, command me to be struck?”
4
Now those who stood by said, “Do you insult the high priest of God?”
5
And Paul was saying, “I was not aware, brothers, that he is high priest; for it has been written: ‘You shall not speak evil of the ruler of your people.’a”
6
Then Paul, having known that the one part consists of Sadducees, but the other of Pharisees, began crying out in the Council,
“Men, brothers, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee; I am judged concerning the hope and resurrection of the dead.”

7And of him saying this, a dissension arose between the Pharisees and Sadducees, and the crowd was divided. 8For indeed Sadducees say there to be no resurrection, nor angel, nor spirit; but Pharisees confess both.

9
Then a great clamor arose, and some of the scribes of the party of the Pharisees, having risen up, were contending saying, “We find nothing evil in this man. And what if a spirit or an angel has spoken to him?”
10
And great dissension arising, the commander, having feared lest Paul should be torn to pieces by them, commanded the troop, having gone down, to take him by force from their midst and to bring him into the barracks.
=============================
The Pharisees and Sadducees are mentioned a few times together, but one that sticks out was the event of them at John's batpism:

Matthew 3:7
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them,
“Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the being about wrath?

They are an interesting study:

3. The Sadducees

The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection of the dead or the immortality of the soul, since these doctrines are not mentioned in the law of Moses.
Neither did they believe in heaven or hell. They interpreted the law literally and tended to support strict justice as opposed to mercy toward the offender.

Since Jesus supported all these things opposed by the Sadducees, Jesus did not fit within the Sadducean movement.

So the Sadducees were the religious and political sect that was largely made up of wealthy, conservative aristocrats, many of them priests. They frequently held high offices in the Temple, and with them a good bit of influence. They objected to unwritten traditions, because they preferred to have the freedom to interpret the Scriptures as they wished. They denied resurrection, immortality of the soul, rewards in the life to come, and angels in some sense.

Their influence diminished until they disappeared by 70 A.D.


.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

This covenantle parable/story in Luke 16 is actually concerning the resurrection.
Jesus tell this story with the Pharisees listening on:

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

LUKE 16:
14
Now the Pharisees, being lovers of money, were listening to all these things, and they were ridiculing Him.
15
And He said to them, “You are those justifying themselves before men, but God knows your hearts;
for that which is exalted among men is an abomination before God.

22 "So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom.
The rich man also died and was buried."

30 "And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
31 But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets,
neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' "

Yeshua uses the last two verses of this parable as an amazing prophecy of his pending resurrection from the dead.
The rich man says that although his brothers may not accept the scriptural evidence for the identity of the Messiah, they will accept the evidence of one who is raised from the dead.
But Abraham answers and plainly tells him that anyone who rejects the Bible's teaching about the Messiah will also refuse to acknowledge the evidence of a miraculous resurrection.
This last verse is a sad prophecy about the Jews who, despite God's resurrection of His son from the power of the grave, have failed to recognize Yeshua as the prophesied Messiah.
=================================================================

Lazarus is only mentioned in 3 Chapters of the NT......Luke 16, and John 11 and 12.
The only person to be resurrected after being dead in grave for more than 3 days [except for the 3 witnesses in Revelation 11]:

John 11:
38So Jesus, being deeply moved in Himself again, comes to the tomb. Now it was a cave, and a stone was lying against it. 39Jesus says, “Take away the stone.”
Martha, the sister of the one having died, says to Him, “Lord, he stinks already, for it is four days.”
41So they took away the stone. Now Jesus lifted His eyes upwards and said, “Father, I thank You that You have heard Me.

43And having said these things, He cried out in a loud voice, “Lazarus, come forth!”
44The one having been dead came forth, the feet and hands being bound with linen strips, and his face bound about with a soudarion.

Then later on guess who wanted Lazarus dead........the chief priests, who were aligned with the Sadducees

Jhn 12:
9
Now a great many of the Jews knew that He was there; and they came, not for Jesus' sake only, but that they might also see Lazarus, whom He had raised from the dead.
10
But the chief priests plotted to put Lazarus to death also



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[brinny]

Why would Paul have to say this to his followers concerning some saying the resurrection has already happened?
[which doesn't appear to occur until Revelation 20:5 "the first resurrection"?]

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

2Ti 2:18
who about the truth swerve<795>, saying the resurrection/ἀνάστασιν<386> already to have become/γεγονέναι<1096>
and they are subverting<396> the of-some<5100> faith.

become/γεγονέναι<1096>
Speech: Verb Parsing: Perfect Infinitive Active

18
οἵτινες περὶ τὴν ἀλήθειαν ἠστόχησαν, λέγοντες ἀνάστασιν ἤδη γεγονέναι,
καὶ ἀνατρέπουσιν τήν τινων πίστιν.
18
oitineV peri thn alhqeian hstochsan legonteV thn anastasin hdh gegonenai
kai anatrepousin thn tinwn pistin

Revelation 20 shows the Resurrection.

Revelation 20:5
The rest of the dead no they live until should be being finished<5055> the thousand years.
This the resurrection/ἀνάστασις <386>, the first.

20:5
οἱ λοιποὶ τῶν νεκρῶν οὐκ ἔζησαν ἄχρι τελεσθῇ1 τὰ χίλια2 ἔτη.
αὕτη ἡ ἀνάστασις ἡ πρώτη.

Scrivener 1894 Textus Receptus
oi de loipoi twn nekrwn ouk anezhsan ews telesqh ta cilia eth auth h anastasiV h prwth
Byzantine Majority
kai oi loipoi twn nekrwn ouk ezhsan acri telesqh ta cilia eth auth h anastasiV h prwth.


.

i agree that the resurrection certainly has NOT occurred, my friend.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

i agree that the resurrection certainly has NOT occurred, my friend.

Hi brinny.......welcome aboard...

Why would they have even think the resurrection had occurred in the first place? What was told to them to make them think it had occurred?

That is what is baffling me........

2Ti 2:18
who about the truth swerve, saying the resurrection/ἀνάστασιν<386> already to have become/γεγονέναι<1096>
and they are subverting the of-some faith.


.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Lazarus is only mentioned in 3 Chapters of the NT......Luke 16, and John 11 and 12.
The only person to be resurrected after being dead in grave for more than 3 days [except for the 3 witnesses in Revelation 11]:

What happened to the resurrected saints mentioned in Matthew 27: 52 ...

https://www.ucg.org/bible.../bible.../what-happened-to-the-resurrected-saints-mentione...
Nov 9, 2010 - Why did God raise dead Christians from their graves at the time of Jesus ... and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into ... (In the Bible, the word saints means those who are sanctified or set ...

Matthew 27:53 After Jesus' resurrection, when they had come out of ...

https://biblehub.com/matthew/27-53.htm
and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many. King James Bible And came out of the graves after his ...

 

[brinny]

Hi brinny.......welcome aboard...

Why would they have even think the resurrection had occurred in the first place? What was told to them to make them think it had occurred?

That is what is baffling me........


2Ti 2:18
who about the truth swerve<795>, saying the resurrection/ἀνάστασιν<386> already to have become/γεγονέναι<1096>
and they are subverting<396> the of-some<5100> faith.

The same reason ANY perversion is proclaimed. It's to cast doubt and confusion whenever possible, in the hopes that those they are attempting to confuse/lead astray, will not be familiar with what God's Word ITSELF says already.

God's Word really IS this:

"Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path." ~Ps 119:105

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

What happened to the resurrected saints mentioned in Matthew 27: 52 ...

https://www.ucg.org/bible.../bible.../what-happened-to-the-resurrected-saints-mentione...
Nov 9, 2010 - Why did God raise dead Christians from their graves at the time of Jesus ... and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into ... (In the Bible, the word saints means those who are sanctified or set ...

Matthew 27:53 After Jesus' resurrection, when they had come out of ...

Matthew 27:53 After Jesus' resurrection, when they had come out of the tombs, they entered the holy city and appeared to many people.
and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many. King James Bible And came out of the graves after his ...

Ah yes........Thanks for bringing that up........

.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The same reason ANY perversion is proclaimed. It's to cast doubt and confusion whenever possible, in the hopes that those they are attempting to confuse/lead astray, will not be familiar with what God's Word ITSELF says already.

God's Word really IS this:

"Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path." ~Ps 119:105

2Ti 2:18
who about the truth swerve<795>, saying the resurrection already to have become
and they are subverting the of-some faith.
Timothy is the only place g795 occurs and hoping to gleen a little more info from this....

795. astocheo as-tokh-eh'-o from a compound of 1 (as a negative particle) and stoichos (an aim); to miss the mark, i.e. (figuratively) deviate from truth:--err, swerve.

This is interesting. Teachers of the Law is mentioned.......

1 Timothy1
5Now the goal of our instruction is love out of a pure heart, and a good conscience, and a sincere faith,
6from which some, having swerved<795>, have turned aside to meaningless discourse,
7desiring to be teachers of the Law, understanding neither what they are saying nor that about which they confidently assert.

Found some verses about teachers of the Law......This is starting to be very revealing on who those might be........

Luke 5:
17And it came to pass on one of the days that He was teaching, and Pharisees and teachers of the law were there sitting by, who were come out of every village of Galilee, and of Judea, and of Jerusalem. And the power of the Lord was there for Him to heal.
18And behold, men carrying upon a mat a man who was paralyzed, and they were seeking to bring him in and to place him before Him.
19And not having found what way they should bring him in, on account of the crowd, having gone up on the housetop, they let him down with the mat through the tiles, into the midst before Jesus.
20And having seen their faith, He said, “Man, your sins have been forgiven you.”
21And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, “Who is this who speaks blasphemies? Who is able to forgive sins, except God alone?”

The other passage in Timothy:

1Timothy 6
17Instruct the rich in the present age not to be high-minded, nor to have hope in the uncertainty of riches, but on God, the One richly providing us all things for enjoyment;
18to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous in distributing, ready to share,
19treasuring up for themselves a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is indeed life.
20O Timothy, guard the deposit committed to you, avoiding profane, empty babblings, and opposing arguments falsely called knowledge,
21which some professing, swerved<795> from the faith.

Grace be with you all.


,


.

 

[brinny]

2Ti 2:18
who about the truth swerve<795>, saying the resurrection already to have become
and they are subverting the of-some faith.
Timothy is the only place g795 occurs and hoping to gleen a little more info from this....

795. astocheo as-tokh-eh'-o from a compound of 1 (as a negative particle) and stoichos (an aim); to miss the mark, i.e. (figuratively) deviate from truth:--err, swerve.

This is interesting. Teachers of the Law is mentioned.......

1 Timothy1
5Now the goal of our instruction is love out of a pure heart, and a good conscience, and a sincere faith,
6from which some, having swerved<795>, have turned aside to meaningless discourse,
7desiring to be teachers of the Law, understanding neither what they are saying nor that about which they confidently assert.

Found some verses about teachers of the Law......This is starting to be very revealing on who those might be........

Luke 5:
17And it came to pass on one of the days that He was teaching, and Pharisees and teachers of the law were there sitting by, who were come out of every village of Galilee, and of Judea, and of Jerusalem. And the power of the Lord was there for Him to heal.
18And behold, men carrying upon a mat a man who was paralyzed, and they were seeking to bring him in and to place him before Him.
19And not having found what way they should bring him in, on account of the crowd, having gone up on the housetop, they let him down with the mat through the tiles, into the midst before Jesus.
20And having seen their faith, He said, “Man, your sins have been forgiven you.”
21And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, “Who is this who speaks blasphemies? Who is able to forgive sins, except God alone?”

The other passage in Timothy:

1Timothy 6
17Instruct the rich in the present age not to be high-minded, nor to have hope in the uncertainty of riches, but on God, the One richly providing us all things for enjoyment;
18to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous in distributing, ready to share,
19treasuring up for themselves a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is indeed life.
20O Timothy, guard the deposit committed to you, avoiding profane, empty babblings, and opposing arguments falsely called knowledge,
21which some professing, swerved<795> from the faith.

Grace be with you all.


,


.

avoiding profane, empty babblings, and opposing arguments falsely called knowledge,
21which some professing

These kinds of "babblings" are what is, many times, the genesis of various "cults".

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Ok, this will conclude trying to identify the "trouble makers".
After this, we start on the resurrection and how it is used in the rest of the NT.

2Ti 2:18
who about the truth swerve, saying the resurrection already to have become
and they are subverting<396> the of-some faith.

396. anatrepo an-at-rep'-o from 303 and the base of 5157;
to overturn (figuratively):--overthrow, subvert.
303. ana an-ah' a primary preposition and adverb;
properly, up; but (by extension) used (distributively) severally, or (locally) at (etc.):--and, apiece, by, each, every (man), in, through. In compounds (as a prefix) it often means (by implication) repetition, intensity, reversal, etc.
5157. trope trop-ay' from an apparently primary trepo
to turn; a turn ("trope"), i.e. revolution (figuratively, variation):--turning.

#396 used in only 1 other verse, and again in Timothy. Again Paul brings up the Jews.

Titus 1:
10For there are also many insubordinate, empty talkers, and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, 11whom it is necessary to silence, who overthrow<396> whole households, teaching things that they ought not for the sake of base gain.
12One of them, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.”

I beginning to think more and more that it is those followers of the corrupt Jewish rulers who were trying to subvert both the Jewish and Proselyte Christians. This is getting deep now.

Matthew 23:
15 Woe to ye Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
That ye are going about the sea and the dry/xhran <3584> to make one proselyte,
and whenever he may be becoming, ye are making him a son of geennhV<1067> twofold-more of ye-selves
33 "Serpents! produce of vipers! how? ye may be fleeing from the judging of the geennhV <1067>
[Ezekiel 39:12/Reve 14:11]

Prosylyte is mentioned in 3 verses of Acts. Poor Paul, he was getting hammered more by the Jews than the Romans........

Acts 13:
42And having gone forth out of the synagogue of the Jews, the nations were calling upon [them] that on the next sabbath these sayings may be spoken to them, 43and the synagogue having been dismissed, many of the Jews and of the devout proselytes did follow Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, were persuading them to remain in the grace of God.


44And on the coming sabbath, almost all the city was gathered together to hear the word of God, 45and the Jews having seen the multitudes, were filled with zeal, and did contradict the things spoken by Paul — contradicting and speaking evil.
46And speaking boldly, Paul and Barnabas said, ‘To you it was necessary that first the word of God be spoken, and seeing ye do thrust it away, and do not judge yourselves worthy of the life age-during, lo, we do turn to the nations;


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[Hazelelponi]

18 men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some.

Revelation would not be written for several decades at that point. Our Lord spoke of the resurrection of the dead several times, as did the Pharisees before Him.

So some men were trying to lead people astray by saying it had already happened.

I think it may have began as a confusion, that some became set in.

Remember when Christ died and the graves opened and people walked out of them? Matthew 27:52

I think there was a confusion, just like all differences of opinion start, and some people saw this event as proof that the resurrection had occurred, and Paul was saying no, we are waiting for this still..

That is my thoughts, of course I don't know, but its certainly easy to see this become a misunderstanding in this manner.

 

[Dave-W]

Yeah - I guess that is a possible explaination.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

What happened to the resurrected saints mentioned in Matthew 27: 52 ...

https://www.ucg.org/bible.../bible.../what-happened-to-the-resurrected-saints-mentione...
Nov 9, 2010 - Why did God raise dead Christians from their graves at the time of Jesus ... and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into ... (In the Bible, the word saints means those who are sanctified or set ...

Matthew 27:53 After Jesus' resurrection, when they had come out of ...

Matthew 27:53 After Jesus' resurrection, when they had come out of the tombs, they entered the holy city and appeared to many people.
and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many. King James Bible And came out of the graves after his ...

I think it may have began as a confusion, that some became set in.

Remember when Christ died and the graves opened and people walked out of them? Matthew 27:52

I think there was a confusion, just like all differences of opinion start, and some people saw this event as proof that the resurrection had occurred, and Paul was saying no, we are waiting for this still..

That is my thoughts, of course I don't know, but its certainly easy to see this become a misunderstanding in this manner.

Yeah - I guess that is a possible explaination.

Yes that was an awesome event and yes, it indeed could have fooled some that it was the endtime resurrection

Some thing else I noticed about that event was the earthquake.

Matthew 27:
51and lo, the vail of the sanctuary was rent in two from top unto bottom, and the land did quake, and the rocks were rent,
54And the centurion, and those with him watching Jesus, having seen the earthquake, and the things that were done, were exceedingly afraid, saying, ‘Truly this was God’s Son.’

Earthquakes are mentioned in the 70ad Olivet Discourse with Luke saying "great earthquakes"

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24:
7 “For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.
And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.
Mark 13:
8 “For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.
And there will be earthquakes in various places, and there will be famines and troubles.
Luke 21:
11 “And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences;
and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven.”

A lot of heavenly action going on back then......

There was one at the tomb of Jesus:

Mat 28:2
And behold, there was a great earthquake; for an Messenger the Lord descended from heaven,
and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat on it.

And at the prison where Paul and Silas were.

Acts 16
25And at midnight Paul and Silas praying, were singing hymns to God, and the prisoners were hearing them,
26and suddenly a great earthquake came, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken, opened also presently were all the doors, and of all — the bands were loosed;
27and the jailor having come out of sleep, and having seen the doors of the prison open, having drawn a sword, was about to kill himself, supposing the prisoners to be fled, 28and Paul cried out with a loud voice, saying, ‘Thou mayest not do thyself any harm, for we are all here.’ 29And, having asked for a light, he sprang in, and trembling he fell down before Paul and Silas, 30and having brought them forth, said, ‘Sirs, what must I do — that I may be saved?’


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[yeshuaslavejeff]

Nothing is at it seems in the world. (Lawyers and Pastors say, for decades now).
Same on most of the forum.

 

[DreamerOfTheHeart]

Why would Paul have to say this to his followers concerning some saying the resurrection has already happened?
[which doesn't appear to occur until Revelation 20:5 "the first resurrection"?]

Amillenialists (which includes the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church, though RCC does not dare put this explicitly in their catechism) effectively say this when they claim that verse is talking about them. It justified their union with the state, in the fifth century. Augustine worked out the concept, though some theologians had worked on it since Constantine.

They just like the line about 'reigning with Christ'.

They ignore the part - somehow - about Christ resurrecting the dead. And about that dead having been beheaded by the Beast, which these groups do say has not happened yet. This also, effectively claims, that the lawless one had already come, been exposed, and destroyed. So, they hit, really three of Paul's warnings to first AD churches.

No surprise there, as Paul, not Peter, is the Apostle to the Gentiles.

The three statements:
-> some claiming the dead had already been resurrected
-> some acting as if they reign with Christ already, Paul confirming this certainly was not the case, but he wish it were. As he was in prison.
-> Paul warning about that day not coming before the lawless one does, and he is destroyed at the coming

All because of one destructive doctrine ultimately introduced by the very revered by many people, Augustine of Hippo.

 

[Radagast]

Why would Paul have to say this to his followers

Your posts really are difficult to decipher, because of:

• the lack of sentences connecting your various quotes,
• the use of pseudo-Greek like anastasiV h prwth,
• the formatting,
• the lengthy side discussions on "other places this word is used," and
• your very long signature (which is in the same font as your posts, making it very hard to tell where your posts stop and your signature begins)

Sadly, I have no idea at all what you were trying to say. Could you rephrase, please?

 

[Dr. D Bunker]

bye

 

[Radagast]

It's useless to display the Greek text like this -οἵτινες περὶ τὴν ἀλήθειαν ἠστόχησαν - because most if not all of us don't understand it anyway!

Judging by the vast number of people on CF who claim to be Greek experts, you surprise me. But apart from οἵτινες περὶ τὴν ἀλήθειαν ἠστόχησαν, hoitines peri tēn alētheian ēstochēsan would be the next best, imho.

The weird code (e.g. anastasiV h prwth) where V is an "s," h is an "ē," and w is an "ō" seems to me even less comprehensible than the Greek.