Discussion 2 Chronicles 7:14

[lismore]

Hello!

2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

When I was in the Pentecostal church this verse was often quoted as why we should 'pray for revival'. My uncle always commented on this that the verse was ripped out of it's context and is not about revival in the church. Indeed I have only ever heard the one verse quoted, never the whole chapter. And the 'pray for revival' teaching never seemed to bring any tangible result, apart from disillusionment.

11 When Solomon had finished the temple of the Lord and the royal palace, and had succeeded in carrying out all he had in mind to do in the temple of the Lord and in his own palace, 12 the Lord appeared to him at night and said:

“I have heard your prayer and have chosen this place for myself as a temple for sacrifices.

13 “When I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or command locusts to devour the land or send a plague among my people, 14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 15 Now my eyes will be open and my ears attentive to the prayers offered in this place. 16 I have chosen and consecrated this temple so that my Name may be there forever. My eyes and my heart will always be there.

17 “As for you, if you walk before me faithfully as David your father did, and do all I command, and observe my decrees and laws, 18 I will establish your royal throne, as I covenanted with David your father when I said, ‘You shall never fail to have a successor to rule over Israel.’

19 “But if you turn away and forsake the decrees and commands I have given you and go off to serve other gods and worship them, 20 then I will uproot Israel from my land, which I have given them, and will reject this temple I have consecrated for my Name. I will make it a byword and an object of ridicule among all peoples. 21 This temple will become a heap of rubble. All who pass by will be appalled and say, ‘Why has the Lord done such a thing to this land and to this temple?’ 22 People will answer, ‘Because they have forsaken the Lord, the God of their ancestors, who brought them out of Egypt, and have embraced other gods, worshiping and serving them—that is why he brought all this disaster on them.’”


Looking at the rest of the passage it seems to be a clear Old Covenant promise specifically to National Israel. Indeed Israel is referenced several times. I can't think of any New Testament passage that references this chapter.

Is it wise to take one verse out of context and build a new teaching on it?

How would the whole land being 'healed' i.e saved sit with passages such as Matthew 7:13-14, the small gate and narrow path to life and only a very few would find it? But if the church 'prays for revival' then the narrow path turns into the wide path?

What do you think?

God Bless

 

[BeyondET]

it happened a second time in 1 kings 9, indeed it is all about Israel.

 

[rocknanchor]

But if the church 'prays for revival' then the narrow path turns into the wide path?

", , and will heal their land

, , has no right to the spiritual? Remember, our being "in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation" and yet "For all things are yours: whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas, or the world or life or death, or things present or things to come—all are yours."

I would have a hard time saying that V-14 does not in fact enter the sphere of an unchanging promise, from an unchanging God. IMO.

 

[lismore]

, , has no right to the spiritual? Remember, our being "in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation" and yet "For all things are yours: whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas, or the world or life or death, or things present or things to come—all are yours."

I would have a hard time saying that V-14 does not in fact enter the sphere of an unchanging promise, from an unchanging God. IMO.

Hello! Thanks for your reply.

Acts 2:40 “With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, 'Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”

It does say save yourselves from this corrupt generation, it does not say save the corrupt generation.

I agree v 14 is an unchanging promise from an unchanging God, but it's a promise that the context says is directed towards Israel? To make it say anything else it has to be taken out of context? God Bless

 

[rocknanchor]

", , it does not say save the corrupt generation.

Thanks!

Nor would I infer such. My "midst" and "world" notations was directed at your narrow-turned-wide paths objection. No, I don't make it my mission to put a spiritual connotation to everything under the sun, lest I see evidence elsewhere to that doubtless likelihood.

 

[Peter J Barban]

I think the OP is technically right but spiritually wrong. The story of Jonah shows that God does accept the repentance of evil nations, even Israel's enemies.

Thus, if any nation/people truly repent, the "gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity" will "forgive their sin and heal their land". This is not because of a promise, but because of God's character.

Jonah Chapter 3
3 Then the word of the Lord came to Jonah a second time: 2 “Go to the great city of Nineveh and proclaim to it the message I give you.”

3 Jonah obeyed the word of the Lord and went to Nineveh. Now Nineveh was a very large city; it took three days to go through it. 4 Jonah began by going a day’s journey into the city, proclaiming, “Forty more days and Nineveh will be overthrown.” 5 The Ninevites believed God. A fast was proclaimed, and all of them, from the greatest to the least, put on sackcloth.

6 When Jonah’s warning reached the king of Nineveh, he rose from his throne, took off his royal robes, covered himself with sackcloth and sat down in the dust. 7 This is the proclamation he issued in Nineveh:

“By the decree of the king and his nobles:

Do not let people or animals, herds or flocks, taste anything; do not let them eat or drink. 8 But let people and animals be covered with sackcloth. Let everyone call urgently on God. Let them give up their evil ways and their violence. 9 Who knows? God may yet relent and with compassion turn from his fierce anger so that we will not perish.”

10 When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he relented and did not bring on them the destruction he had threatened.


Jonah Chapter 4
4 But to Jonah this seemed very wrong, and he became angry. 2 He prayed to the Lord, “Isn’t this what I said, Lord, when I was still at home? That is what I tried to forestall by fleeing to Tarshish. I knew that you are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity. 3 Now, Lord, take away my life, for it is better for me to die than to live.”

4 But the Lord replied, “Is it right for you to be angry?”

5 Jonah had gone out and sat down at a place east of the city. There he made himself a shelter, sat in its shade and waited to see what would happen to the city. 6 Then the Lord God provided a leafy plant and made it grow up over Jonah to give shade for his head to ease his discomfort, and Jonah was very happy about the plant. 7 But at dawn the next day God provided a worm, which chewed the plant so that it withered. 8 When the sun rose, God provided a scorching east wind, and the sun blazed on Jonah’s head so that he grew faint. He wanted to die, and said, “It would be better for me to die than to live.”

9 But God said to Jonah, “Is it right for you to be angry about the plant?”

“It is,” he said. “And I’m so angry I wish I were dead.”

10 But the Lord said, “You have been concerned about this plant, though you did not tend it or make it grow. It sprang up overnight and died overnight. 11 And should I not have concern for the great city of Nineveh, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left—and also many animals?”

 

[spiritfilledjm]

Hello!

2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

When I was in the Pentecostal church this verse was often quoted as why we should 'pray for revival'. My uncle always commented on this that the verse was ripped out of it's context and is not about revival in the church. Indeed I have only ever heard the one verse quoted, never the whole chapter. And the 'pray for revival' teaching never seemed to bring any tangible result, apart from disillusionment.

11 When Solomon had finished the temple of the Lord and the royal palace, and had succeeded in carrying out all he had in mind to do in the temple of the Lord and in his own palace, 12 the Lord appeared to him at night and said:

“I have heard your prayer and have chosen this place for myself as a temple for sacrifices.

13 “When I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or command locusts to devour the land or send a plague among my people, 14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 15 Now my eyes will be open and my ears attentive to the prayers offered in this place. 16 I have chosen and consecrated this temple so that my Name may be there forever. My eyes and my heart will always be there.

17 “As for you, if you walk before me faithfully as David your father did, and do all I command, and observe my decrees and laws, 18 I will establish your royal throne, as I covenanted with David your father when I said, ‘You shall never fail to have a successor to rule over Israel.’

19 “But if you turn away and forsake the decrees and commands I have given you and go off to serve other gods and worship them, 20 then I will uproot Israel from my land, which I have given them, and will reject this temple I have consecrated for my Name. I will make it a byword and an object of ridicule among all peoples. 21 This temple will become a heap of rubble. All who pass by will be appalled and say, ‘Why has the Lord done such a thing to this land and to this temple?’ 22 People will answer, ‘Because they have forsaken the Lord, the God of their ancestors, who brought them out of Egypt, and have embraced other gods, worshiping and serving them—that is why he brought all this disaster on them.’”


Looking at the rest of the passage it seems to be a clear Old Covenant promise specifically to National Israel. Indeed Israel is referenced several times. I can't think of any New Testament passage that references this chapter.

Is it wise to take one verse out of context and build a new teaching on it?

How would the whole land being 'healed' i.e saved sit with passages such as Matthew 7:13-14, the small gate and narrow path to life and only a very few would find it? But if the church 'prays for revival' then the narrow path turns into the wide path?

What do you think?

God Bless

2 Timothy 3:16-17

Though you're not wrong on your concerns about it, it is still a good principle to live by. The Bible says throughout it that if we are to even walk away, backslide so to speak, and we repent we are forgiven. God's forgiveness heals us completely. In fact, His forgiveness is what keeps us from enduring the second death, His forgiveness is what heals us from death. There is nothing untruthful in using this verse to pray for revival, for our nation, for ourselves to return to God. It is good to note though, for any student of the Bible, the context of this verse specifically and what it was used for originally and the circumstances that lead to God giving Ezra (traditionally) these words to record in His Word for all generations of Christendom to remember and pray.

 

[Peter J Barban]

Here is a telling quote from the fictional hero/villain,Rorschach, of the Watchmen movie:

"This city's afraid of me. I've seen its true face. The streets are extended gutters, and the gutters are full of blood, and when the drains finally scab over all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the harlots and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!" and I'll whisper "No."

Do you think God will act this way when a sinful people repent?

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

Hi the laws of sowing and reaping are clearly in effect and the general principal is applicable today that if you take the time to read the laws of blessing and cursing also written to Israel and look at the USA today the very curses that are in the law are coming upon us and indeed the very blessings have departed from us.
Lev 26 and Due 28

I agree that the Bible does not teach praying for revival but does show people praying for boldness to proclaim the LORD Jesus and church history documents many great movements have indeed began with prayer for the lost or revival as some would have it. So in scripture we do not have a comprehensive list but are told to pray about all things and many many have prayed over a lost family member , friend of acquaintance for decades and then saw them come to Jesus.

God gave us the Holy Spirit and the word to guide us and certainly did not set up a formula containing models for every situation and endeavor. Our church had a large building that was inherited and was praying for God to do a work and use us a witness to bring many to salvation. The church was largely in disrepair too. They came up with the funds and volunteers from all over the country came and gave skilled labor and the church was restored. Then Covid came and after two weeks we stood up and met inside and stood on the Bible that says not to forsake the assembling of yourselves together as is the manner of some and especially when you see the day approaching. Also the constitution says no infringements shall be made in the practice of religion. Anyways we opened no masks, no social distancing and soon we have two services that are very full and every month around 100 people are getting baptized having accepted Christ and indeed we have come under persecution facing almost half a million in fines and by the way Covid was less severe in our congregation than the general public where by the mandates if it were true we should have had devistating loss and been a super spreader.


We are seeing the revival or the fruit of seeking the LORD for His glory and seeing the faith of building the ark before the flood which was restoring the building before the people came and now in the midst of this I can testify that the very prayers are the foundation of this work the LORD is doing. So technically you are right but I certainly see both sides of this one.

 

[lismore]

I think the OP is technically right but spiritually wrong. The story of Jonah shows that God does accept the repentance of evil nations, even Israel's enemies.

Hello Peter! Thank you for your post. However the OP is addressing the question, if I repent and pray God will heal my land and bring revival (whether the land repents or not). It's not the nation that's repenting, it's just me and a few others in a Pentecostal meeting. And the scripture to support this seems to be taken out of context. The passage says that if Israel repents God will bless Israel, the application says that God will save everyone in Scotland if the church jumps through certain hoops?

God Bless

 

[Peter J Barban]

Thank you for clarifying the issue for me. In such a case, I think the biblical example is that God saves a remnant, but only after a time of suffering/judgment which the remnant must endure.

A good example was Jeremiah the prophet when God tells him regarding the people of Judah:

“So do not pray for this people nor offer any plea or petition for them; do not plead with me, for I will not listen to you." Jeremiah 7:16

Jeremiah was spared by the enemy of Judah and apparently led away into exile, which was better than trying to survive in a broken and destitute land.

But let's not assume that irrevocable judgment is God's will unless he clearly reveals it.

 

[lismore]

Hi the laws of sowing and reaping are clearly in effect and the general principal is applicable today that if you take the time to read the laws of blessing and cursing also written to Israel and look at the USA today the very curses that are in the law are coming upon us and indeed the very blessings have departed from us.
Lev 26 and Due 28

Thank you for your interesting reply!

Just two points I would say to qualify the paragraph above.

God made a national Covenant with Israel that he has made with no other Nation, not even the USA! Although sin may manifest in a common way I don't think there's a direct parallel between National Israel and the United States.

Jesus redeemed us from the curse of the Law found in Lev 26 and Due 28 (Galatians 3:13).

God Bless

 

[Joan Lamb]

'Heal their land'. This is in reference to Israel and will be a future event.

7. The Glorious Restoration Of Israel | Bible.org

 

[Always in His Presence]

Is it wise to take one verse out of context and build a new teaching on it?

No.

 

[jiminpa]

It says, "If my people, which are called by my name...." Are we His people, who are called by His name? If you're not called by His name, I suggest you make that right, quickly.

 

[lismore]

It says, "If my people, which are called by my name...." Are we His people, who are called by His name? If you're not called by His name, I suggest you make that right, quickly.

Gentile believers are addressed in 2 Chronicles 6: 32 “As for the foreigner who does not belong to your people Israel but has come from a distant land because of your great name and your mighty hand and your outstretched arm—when they come and pray toward this temple, 33 then hear from heaven, your dwelling place. Do whatever the foreigner asks of you, so that all the peoples of the earth may know your name and fear you, as do your own people Israel, and may know that this house I have built bears your Name"

 

[jiminpa]

Gentile believers are addressed in 2 Chronicles 6: 32 “As for the foreigner who does not belong to your people Israel but has come from a distant land because of your great name and your mighty hand and your outstretched arm—when they come and pray toward this temple, 33 then hear from heaven, your dwelling place. Do whatever the foreigner asks of you, so that all the peoples of the earth may know your name and fear you, as do your own people Israel, and may know that this house I have built bears your Name"

My point is that the verse addresses God's people, not specifically Israel.

 

[lismore]

My point is that the verse addresses God's people, not specifically Israel.

I would recommend reading the entire passage, not just the one verse out of context. My point is that I have always heard that verse taken out of context, the rest of the passage never quoted. God Bless

 

[spiritfilledjm]

2 Timothy 3:16-17

 

[AbbaLove]

I would recommend reading the entire passage, not just the one verse out of context. My point is that I have always heard that verse taken out of context, the rest of the passage never quoted. God Bless

Your intent is timely and correct. It's context is with respect to the Israelites gathered on the Temple grounds for its dedication and any future gathering of all Israel on the Temple grounds. Apparently the following (as a nation) was a one time event ... eventually all Israel was dispersed among the nations due to their unwillingness (as a nation) with one accord to humble themselves, pray, seek GOD, and turn from their wicked ways.

3 When all the Israelites saw the fire coming down and the glory of the Lord above the Temple, they knelt on the pavement with their faces to the ground, and they worshiped and gave thanks to the Lord, saying, “He is good; His love endures forever.”​

Verse 14 should be correctly interrupted that if the Israelites having fallen away and seeing the error of their ways will come together (as a nation) in one accord on the Temple grounds seeking GOD with a humble repentant heart, He will heal their land ...

if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.​

Unfortunately the reason many Christian Believers misinterpret verse 14 is because too many still believe the Christian church replaced Israel (RT) as HIS Chosen People (aka supersessionism) due to poor theology. However, as the Gentile Age nears its end with the soon coming of the Messianic Age. Many Christians have a renewed interest in the Hebrew/Jewish Roots of Christianity including the seven Festivals Of The Lord (e.g. Tabernacles / Sukkot).

Zechariah 8:22-23
22 Yes, many peoples and strong nations shall come to seek the Lord of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the Lord.’
23 Thus says the Lord of hosts: "In those days ten men from every language of the nations shall grasp the sleeve of a Jewish man, saying, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.”

Zechariah 14:17-19
17 If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, they will have no rain.
18 If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The Lord will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles.
19 This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles.​