1 Corinthians 5:9-13....what does it mean:

[JesseRaymondBassett]

Hi,
I was reading Scripture today and I came across this:


1 Corinthians 5:9-13

9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral persons— 10not at all meaning the immoral of this world, or the greedy and robbers, or idolaters, since you would then need to go out of the world. 11But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother or sister who is sexually immoral or greedy, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or robber. Do not even eat with such a one. 12For what have I to do with judging those outside? Is it not those who are inside that you are to judge? 13God will judge those outside. ‘Drive out the wicked person from among you.’

(Taken from the New Revised Standard Version)

My question is this:

If someone is immoral, should we literally "drive out the wicked person from among us" ? Also, should we confront them on their behavior in private and try to get them to come to Jesus in repentence? Where do we draw the line?

I need some help...and I pray I made sense.

 

[payattention]

Hi,
I was reading Scripture today and I came across this:


1 Corinthians 5:9-13

(Taken from the New Revised Standard Version)

My question is this:

If someone is immoral, should we literally "drive out the wicked person from among us" ? Also, should we confront them on their behavior in private and try to get them to come to Jesus in repentence? Where do we draw the line?

I need some help...and I pray I made sense.

How one answers that question depends very much on how one views the Bible. If you believe the Bible is THE word of God, commissioned by Him to provide us with guidance for our lives then you have no choice but to do exactly as the text states. To do otherwise is to make a mockery of your belief.

On the other hand, if you believe as I do that the Bible is a human record of the Creators interaction with a select segment of the human race and that Paul did not have a full understanding of the nature and character of the Creator, then you can take Paul's words as the effort of a caring pastor to deal with a pressing problem within his church. You can then go on and do what you believe the love of Christ expects of you in the modern context.

 

[5stringJeff]

Zora, I think that this passage should be taken in conjunction with the passage in Matthew regarding church discipline. First, one should confront the sinning brother about his sin. If he refuses, bring witnesses and confront him again, then have the church confront him. If he refuses to repent, then I think Paul's advice here is sound.

 

[tall73]

The passage should be taken together with Matt 18 as stated, and also with other texts on the same subject such as Galatians 6:

GAL 6:1 Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted. 2 Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.

As a pastor I do go and see everyone who I think is struggling or committing open sin, in order to help them, assist them in overcoming, or if necessary to warn them that they are cutting THEMSELVES off from God by their choices. If we love people we will not let them continue to go down a wrong path and not say something.

You have to have the right attitude though. If you are just out to clear the church of sin, you are likely to be too harsh. The goal is to restore them gently. But if they will not listen (as they would not in Corinth), then you must be more stern. But note that even in Corinth after someone repented they were NOT harsh:

2CO 2:5 If anyone has caused grief, he has not so much grieved me as he has grieved all of you, to some extent--not to put it too severely. 6 The punishment inflicted on him by the majority is sufficient for him. 7 Now instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him, so that he will not be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. 8 I urge you, therefore, to reaffirm your love for him. 9 The reason I wrote you was to see if you would stand the test and be obedient in everything. 10 If you forgive anyone, I also forgive him. And what I have forgiven--if there was anything to forgive--I have forgiven in the sight of Christ for your sake, 11 in order that Satan might not outwit us. For we are not unaware of his schemes.

THe punishment talked of here is that removal of the daily intense fellowship that characterized the early church. Of course this largely does not work anymore, because there is little fellowship is some churches for them to miss. But loss of that fellowship in those days was a big thing to wake people up. The current equivalent is often excommunication, or disfellowship, but that is more of a formal thing. There are times when that might be necessary. But the real issue is that they see that any official standing is not important as their real standing with God that is being effected by their open sin.

In my experiences in doing this, I have found that some people do indeed turn away from their sinful action. I would say that this happens about a third of the time at best. And some get angry. But what can we expect? They are already doing something the know to be wrong, they are already defensive. But to me, the process works best if

a. it is someone they are close to. Then they don't take it as an attack. It should not have to be the church leadership at first. Others who know them best can appeal in the most beneficial way.
b. it is kept confidential, as Jesus demands, then it is far easier for the person to come back. Especially if it is not obvious yet to the whole church. The less people who know, the better.
c. If you catch it earlier they are less hardened by continually rejecting God's will. This is a key one. If you wait for months , you have let them slip far away.
d. It needs to be an issue that matters. A clear violation of God's expressed law needs to be confronted. But some disputable matters might be better handled in other ways.

Some think that because the process is not always pretty, or because some become more angry that it should not be done. I don't think that is true. The reason they are angry is that you made them face the truth ,and decide. They may not like it, but it is a chance to bring repentance. The alternative is to let them go to ruin because we didn't care.

And for the ones who do repent, it is truly worth it.

JAS 5:19 My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

 

[BalaamsAss51]

Hello Zoralink201.

Paul is here refering to a prvious letter in which he had warne the congregation against Christian fellowship with sexually immoral people. Here in verses 12 and 13 Paul is clearly contrasting the responsibility of the church, "you" in 5:12, with the prerogative of "God" in 5:13. This distinction between those inside God's kingdom/church and those outside occurs a number of times in the NT (MK 4:11; Col 4:5; 1 Thess 4:12; Rev 22:15). The OT's distinction between Israel and the Gentiles has its NT counterpart in the distinction between church and world.

Look at the nicelybalanced AB/A'B' structure of the quatrain of short sentences which brings Paul's argument concerning the immoral man to a close.
A For what business of mine is it to judge those outside?
B But isn't it for you to judge those on the inside?
A' Those on the outside God will judge.
B' "Remove the wicked person from among yourselves!"

Note that in the Greek "will judge" is future tense. On the Last Day God will judge those who are outside the church, but for now the opportunity is open for them to escape final judgment.

Having said in 5:12a that it is none of his (Paul's) business to judge those outside the church, Paul states in 5:13a whose business it is: "Those on the outside God will judge." Then, with a quotation from Deuteronomy, he wraps up his argument: "Remove the wicked person from among yourselves!" (1 Cor 5:13). Thus the excommunicated man is to become an "outsider," someone the community regards as "a Gentile and a tax collector" (Mt 18:17). This means he is facing God's eternal wrath and, like all "outsiders," stands in need of the church's prayer, testimony, and love.

Pax

 

[B®ent]

Most Christians ignore those verses nowadays.