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1 Corinthians 14:27-28

JesusAddict333

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Can anyone explain why pentecostal churches don't follow these words?

"If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God."
 

LinkH

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Can anyone explain why pentecostal churches don't follow these words?

"If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God."


You are assuming that they don't. I moved a lot, but grew up in various churches that identified themselves as Full Gospel or Assemblies of God. Especially in one AOG, I went to, it was taught that tongues spoken in the church were to be interpreted. The other AOG I spent a lot of time in had tongues and interpretation, and I can't remember anyone speaking out loud in tongues without it being interpreted in that church. The Full Gospel church I went to as a child also had tongues and interpretation.

There are some churches that either interpreted I Corinthians 14 differently, taking 'silence in the church' to mean not to address the tongue as if the the congregation and taking 'let him speak to himself and to God' as to allow it quietly for purposes of prayer in church. Other people interpret that to mean to not allow the speaker in tongues to continue on if no one interprets.

As far as the meaning of the verse goes, I know a retired Greek professor who says that since it is talking about 'one' (tis) speaking in tongues, one person does not become two or three people by speaking in tongues. He takes 'two or three' to refer to the number of utterances spoken, but that's a little different topic.

Btw, would your typical non-Pentecostal church obey this and verse 26. If they don't let the speaker in tongues and interpreter speak, then they would be disobeying the passage as well.
 
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JesusAddict333

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All of the pentecostal churches I have been to let people speak/pray in tongues many people at a time, and they rarely if ever interpret. They even speak in tongues while preaching sometimes and never give an interpretation or call for one from the congregation.
 
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LinkH

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All of the pentecostal churches I have been to let people speak/pray in tongues many people at a time, and they rarely if ever interpret. They even speak in tongues while preaching sometimes and never give an interpretation or call for one from the congregation.

When I was in the AOG in the '80's, they typically taught that tongues were to be interpreted. I think they taught that in the Bible Colleges. I hear a lot of AOGs rarely see these gifts these days. It probably depends on what kind of church your going to.

I've never heard people speaking in tongues while preaching. You mean the preacher does it, or others. I've probably heard a preacher say a few lines in tongues while preaching if that's what you mean.

Just because a church calls itself Pentecostal doesn't mean it's using the gifts right. I Corinthians 12:26 would have us let regular folks in the congregation address the assembly with teachings and revelations. Aside from allowing tongues and prophecies, probably most Pentecostal churches haven't gone as far as implementing that scripture. They allowed some of that at Azusa Street way back when, though.

There are different views on tongues an order in churches. I haven't read all of Seymore's newsletters from Azusa Street, but i recall some of the later stuff talks about the need for order when it came to tongues. I can imagine some of the people who came to the revival, spoke in tongues, and left early on may have been exposed to some disorderly use of tongues and may have copied it. Some of the other folks either came later and saw better order, or else learned about order when it comes to tongues from actually reading the Bible and tried to implement it as new churches formed.
 
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LinkH

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Prayer language is a type of speaking in tongues and it does not need order,

Where does the Bible teach that? Verse 28 tells us, 'let him keep silent in the church, and let him speak to himself and to God.' That sounds like the evidence for a prayer language. The difference between a prayer language and a tongue for the congregation, from what we see in the passage, is if there be no interpreter, then it's a prayer language.

Tongues are spoken as the Spirit gives the utterance. Some people try to make Romans 8:26 about a prayer language, but that is talking about groanings that cannot be uttered. Tongues can be uttered.
 
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Gospel Guy

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And, sometimes the person God gives the interpretation to... refuses to give it.

Doesn't mean God did not do His part, and in this case the person that spoke out in tongues did not miss God either.

Sometimes things don't go according to scripture cause somebody refused to be led by the Holy Ghost.

Disobedience happens... No, that's not a good bumper sticker for a Christian :doh:
 
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Biblicist

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Can anyone explain why pentecostal churches don't follow these words?

"If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God."
This area is one where classic-Pentecostal practice has certainly fallen well short of the Biblical marker. Even though we regularly encounter Pentecostal (and charismatic) congregations who correctly stipulate that during their meetings, that we are to only have three prophecies, along with three prayers in tongues and that each tongue is to be accompanied by an interpretation.

Considering that in 1 Cor 14, Paul goes into some detail regarding the importance of intelligibility during our congregational meetings; we still encounter far too many congregations that not only allow more than three prophecies and tongues, but they also allow their members to corporately sing in the Spirit (tongues) during these meetings. A tongue given in song is legitimate but not when dozens or hundreds are doing this all at once.

This was the objection that Paul had with the Corinthians, it seems that in most part they understood the correct operation of the 9 Manifestations of the Spirit (1Co 12:7-11) and that they also understood what the 8 Congregational Functions/Offices were, but when it comes to proper etiquette, they fell woefully short in this area.

So when Paul heavily criticises the Corinthians for allowing this type of activity, it is the same charge that he would lay against much of the contemporary Full Gospel movement as well; I think that for many Pentecostals they probably know less about 1Cor 12, 13 & 14 than did the Corinthians.

Even though Paul also explains that tongues are always directed toward God and never to man, we do not know if the Corinthians fell for the same mistake as much as the contemporary Full Gospel movement with how many of us falsely presume that the Spirit speaks to the congregation or an individual through a supposed message in tongues. If they did have this right, and considering that Paul spent a fair amount of time within them previously, I would presume that he had simply included some passages for the benefit of the broader (and future) Christian community.
 
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LinkH

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This area is one where classic-Pentecostal practice has certainly fallen well short of the Biblical marker.


When it comes to order and the 'level' of expression of gifts we see Paul recommend in the passage, I agree.

Even though we regularly encounter Pentecostal (and charismatic) congregations who correctly stipulate that during their meetings, that we are to only have three prophecies, along with three prayers in tongues and that each tongue is to be accompanied by an interpretation.
I think the idea you are describing here is one of the errors of Pentecostals that try to promote order, on their understanding of order. Does the passage say anything about limiting the number of messages in tongues or prophecy in the meeting to two or three per meeting? Out of context, I could see how you could argue that for verse 27. But there is no way that could be what the section on prophecy means.

Paul instructed let the prophets speak two or three and let the other judge. But if a revelation comes to one sitting by, let the first hold his peace. For ye may all prophesy one by one.

Now, if only two or three people were the church in Corinth, then maybe it makes sense that he is limiting the number of prophecies to two or three, but we can see from the people mentioned in the epistle that there were more than three people in the Corinthian church. If ye all may all prophesy, then it is not true that the number of prophecies was limited to two or three because there were more than three people in the church.

The way I take is that the prophets give two or three prophetic utterances, and then the words are weighed carefully. The process can be repeated. If a prophet is speaking, he should yield the floor for someone else sitting by who receives a revelation. This method allows all to prophecy.

With that in mind, I see verse 27 as saying if one person is speaking in tongues, let him utter two or three utterances, and let one interpret. (One person does not suddenly turn into two or three people when speaking in tongues.)

Earlier in the passage, Paul speaks of the reaction of an unbeliever or uninstructed person when 'all prophesy.'

Something else to notice about Pentecostals and order is that the Azusa Street revival started to move toward what Paul writes about in this passage. One person would stand up and give an exhortation. Another would prophesy. Another would speak in tongues and interpret. Seymour spent much of his time with his head in a crate, probably something they used for chairs or pulpits, praying.

But when Pentecostals went back home, they reverted back to the Protestant tradition of having one pastor preach one long sermon. That's not what we see in I Corinthians where 'every one of you' uses their gifts. In Romans 12 Paul commands the one gifted to prophesy to prophesy, the one gifted to teach to teach, the one gifted to exhort to exhort. That makes a lot more sense in the kind of meetings described in I Corinthians 14, the only passage that goes into any multi-verse depth on how to handle the ministry of the word in an actual church meeting in the New Testament. If we want to know what to do in church from the New Testament, this chapter is it. It does not mention a pastor or a long sermon. 'Every one of you' can teach a doctrine or share a revelation or sing a psalm. Let it be done unto edifying.

Considering that in 1 Cor 14, Paul goes into some detail regarding the importance of intelligibility during our congregational meetings; we still encounter far too many congregations that not only allow more than three prophecies and tongues,


Good for them if they follow the commandments of the Lord for order. It doesn't make sense to say we are going to limit the number of things the Spirit specifically move things to say, but allow people to go on and on with good things that the Spirit isn't specifically moving them to say.

but they also allow their members to corporately sing in the Spirit (tongues) during these meetings.
I think the interpretation rule applies to singing in tongues too in church. I've seen a song in tongues interpreted.

 
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Biblicist

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Something else to notice about Pentecostals and order is that the Azusa Street revival started to move toward what Paul writes about in this passage. One person would stand up and give an exhortation. Another would prophesy. Another would speak in tongues and interpret. Seymour spent much of his time with his head in a crate, probably something they used for chairs or pulpits, praying.

But when Pentecostals went back home, they reverted back to the Protestant tradition of having one pastor preach one long sermon...
As much as I have no wish to minimise the input of Seymour and the Azusa Street Mission, I think that we can understand why he may have spent so little time with teaching, as his own knowledge with regard to the Full Gospel was certainly limited. This limitation is probably well evidenced with how the “revival” only managed to go for three years; by this time, Seymours doctrinal positions seemed to have kept him on the outer and his eventual racial discrimination, or maybe his reverse-racism, certainly isolated him from the broader Christian community.

If the LA newspaper that had the article on Azusa Street had not of occurred on the same day as the San Francisco earthquake, then I tend to wonder if he would have survived for more than a year. Considering that Parnham had moved in the Spirit about five years earlier with it hardly being noticed, I’m not all that sure that we should be establishing Seymour (or Parnham) as shining lights of the early Pentecostal movement – though I still would have loved to be in his earlier meetings, particularly with the meetings at Bonnie Brae Street.

Good for them if they follow the commandments of the Lord for order. It doesn't make sense to say we are going to limit the number of things the Spirit specifically move things to say, but allow people to go on and on with good things that the Spirit isn't specifically moving them to say.
Even though I come across the opinion that Paul was advocating an “open season” approach in that we could simply do what we wanted with scant regard to the needs of the local assembly, I have absolutely no doubt that Pauls words were simple enough and to move away from his demand that we ensure that there are only three prophecies + three tongues along with each being interpreted would require an incredible leap through numerous linguistic and theological hurdles. With regard to singing in the Spirit, this could (and should) occur but they must still be interpreted, which could mean two standard vocalisations in tongues and one given in song, but all three must be interpreted.

I suspect that many Pentecostal congregational leaders realise that Paul is forbidding the situation where all either speak or sing in tongues; there would probably not be too many leaders who would have the confidence and stamina to stand up on a Sunday informing their people that they need to behave and adhere to Scriptural guidelines – this would probably amount to WWIII in some congregations. I think that many are simply content to leave well-enough alone.
 
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stormdancer0

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Paul was giving an instruction to a congregation that was out of control. We speak in tongues during praise and worship, when the Spirit dictates. Sometimes, there is an interpretation, sometimes not. Sometimes, the interpretation is for one person. I've gotten an interpretation and also that it was meant for a specific lady. I went after service and gave it to her. She was very appreciative that it was not given in the congregation as a whole.

When we all pray in the Spirit, there is no need for interpretation. This is the gift of praying in the Spirit, that Paul talks about where "no one knows what he says, indeed, he is speaking to God." No one understands. It is me, talking to God via the Spirit. It is not out of control, not chaotic.

I suppose one could ask why non-Pentecostal churches have decided that the part of the Bible talking about the gifts of the Spirit aren't valid any more, thus deleting the power that comes along with it. There really isn't a valid answer.
 
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Gospel Guy

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I suppose one could ask why non-Pentecostal churches have decided that the part of the Bible talking about the gifts of the Spirit aren't valid any more, thus deleting the power that comes along with it. There really isn't a valid answer.


Sure there is an answer... satan blinds the minds of them that do not believe!

In this case he is blinding the minds (understanding) of some Christians to not believe what the scripture says about praying in the Holy Ghost.... in hopes that these folks won't figure out who he is and what he's keeping them from.

It's all very simple. :cool:
 
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PraiseHisName9

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This is what baptists and other non-believing denominations use to explain why they don't practice tongues.

1 Corinthians 13:8

"Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away."

(NIV 2011)
 
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tturt

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I Cor 13:8 "Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away."

It's funny to me that the first part of that verse is used by some denominations to explain why they don't believe in tongues while ignoring the rest of the same verse. If tongues have passed is the correct interpretation of that Scripture for you then don't study The Bible for knowledge.

Any tongue can be interpreted "Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret." I Cor 14:8 Tongues are a sign to unbelievers of believers (I Cor 14:22; Mark 16:17). They've got to be spoken to be a sign.

Churches interpret The Scriptures differently. Why can't we respect each others' perspective? No one is bringing Scripture to our attention that we haven't throughly studied ourselves. "...and forbid not to speak with tongues." I Cor 14:39

Stop speaking in tongues? Actually it's the opposite - we need to speak in tongues MORE "I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:" I Cor 14:18

The bottom line is - If tongues were something else besides what they are, there wouldn't be half of these discussions.

Ultimately a gift from Him, to Him.
 
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LinkH

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When we all pray in the Spirit, there is no need for interpretation. This is the gift of praying in the Spirit, that Paul talks about where "no one knows what he says, indeed, he is speaking to God." No one understands. It is me, talking to God via the Spirit. It is not out of control, not chaotic.


What else would Paul be trying to correct throughout all of chapter 14, if it wasn't the Corinthians wrongly praying in tongues in church without an interpretation? If that's okay, why is verse 28 in the Bible? Why the rest of the verses about tongues throughout that chapter, leading up to verse 28?
 
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LinkH

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This is what baptists and other non-believing denominations use to explain why they don't practice tongues.

1 Corinthians 13:8

"Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away."

(NIV 2011)


It's a good thing another chapter in the book gives us an idea of how long we can expect the gifts he would discuss in the epistle to last

I Corinthians 1
that you were enriched in everything by Him in all utterance and all knowledge, 6 even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, 7 so that you come short in no gift, eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 8 who will also confirm you to the end, that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9
(NKJV)
 
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jiminpa

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What else would Paul be trying to correct throughout all of chapter 14, if it wasn't the Corinthians wrongly praying in tongues in church without an interpretation? If that's okay, why is verse 28 in the Bible? Why the rest of the verses about tongues throughout that chapter, leading up to verse 28?
Not praying speaking out.

28 But if there is no one to do the interpreting, let each of them keep still in church and talk to himself and to God.

Don't forget that chapters 12, 13 and 14 are all the same continuous thought.
 
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LinkH

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Not praying speaking out.

28 But if there is no one to do the interpreting, let each of them keep still in church and talk to himself and to God.

Don't forget that chapters 12, 13 and 14 are all the same continuous thought.

If they aren't praying out loud, then it wouldn't be an issue.

What scripture do we have that explicitely tells us we can use a prayer language besides verse 28 and a few other verses. The same thing that would be interpreted if an interpreter were present is the thing that the speaker is to 'speak to himself and to God.' There is no evidence for tongues spoken to the congregation and tongues as prayer being two separate gifts in this passage. Verse 28 disproves that idea.
 
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Biblicist

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This is what baptists and other non-believing denominations use to explain why they don't practice tongues.

1 Corinthians 13:8

"Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away."

(NIV 2011)
This was certainly a popular platform for most cessationists up until the early 80's. Since this time it has been relegated to the use of the less 'astute' cessationists as the more Biblically literate cessationists have long realised that this passage is referring to the return of the Lord. In my opinion, when we come across those who are promoting a strong form of cessationism, they tend to be merely the old die-hard relics.
 
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