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Is Evangelism Useless?
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timothyu
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A doctor can also be corrupt or of ulterior motive. We should see that after the last 5 years. The labels are irrelevant and we certainly shouldn't judge books by their covers. Besides, a person with a lot less to lose would be more prone to be truthful.
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1Tonne
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Yes. There have been some issues over the last few years.
In a way, this proved the point. Some bad doctors (I said some, because many are still good) said all sorts of stuff about Covid and people believed them because they viewed doctors as trustworthy. They were viewed as a good witness.
Sadly, Covid has tainted the overall view of doctors with some people, but the analogy still stands.
NOTE: I do not want to get into a discussion on Covid. Cheers
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Maori Aussie
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I was talking with a panhandler, and he complained how hard it was to sit on a milkcrate. I went home and cut a milkcrate sized square from a long roll of extra-thick camping sleeping foam. Next week, I gave it to him. He asked "Did you make this for me???" I replied yes, and he cried.
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1Tonne
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Do you believe we should speak the Gospel to people? That is, that we have sinned and broken God's Law. So, we have earned the death sentence, but Jesus took our punishment by dying on the cross for us. So, those who believe in Him will be saved and have everlasting life.
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timothyu
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Matthew 24: 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
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1Tonne
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Are you saying that the good news is that there will be many false prophets and iniquity shall abound? But those who endure to the end are saved?
Can you explain a little?
Jesus told Paul the Gospel that he should preach.
Galatians 1:11–12 “For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man's gospel. For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.”
And here is the Gospel that Paul preached:
"Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures" 1 Cor 15:1-4
So, what does 1 Cor 15:1-4 mean? It means that we have sinned against God, and so Jesus died for our sins, and He was buried and rose from the dead. Now, because Jesus took our punishment and overcame death, we who believe in Him can have everlasting life as a free gift.
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- Jan 28, 2002
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Hello Scoutship, wow, another Christian forums posting veteran. I've been at this for 25 years too (well, 25 years on THIS forum/CF.com, that is, less on others). It's hard to believe that we haven't run into one another until now.Right, I don't have the gift of being able to speak publicly, (and my voice sounds like a parrot on helium anyway), but I can write better than I can talk, and have been bouncing around net discussion forums for the past 25 years..
I've found that CFcom and other forums are GREAT places to witness, even to people who we may never know/talk to who are reading all that we have to say here. I was a mod on a smaller Christian forum for a few years and was privy to the usage data there. While we typically had fewer than 200 people "posting" on our boards each day, we typically had tens of thousands "reading" what was being written/posted there each day too.
I have a post (post #13) in this thread about that very quote, one that I believe you'll find interesting. So, if you'd like to, go here and read it (and we can discuss some of it later if you'd like to).PS- I like this quote by Francis of Assissi- "Preach the gospel, and if necessary use words" which means we can set an example of Christianity by our deeds and actions without saying or writing a word..
God bless you!!
--David
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Scoutship
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Scoutship said- Francis of Assissi said- “Preach the Gospel at all times. Use words if necessary.”
Thanks, I see somebody claimed in that thread that Francis never said it at all, to which I'd say "Prove he never said it"..
PS- I wish CF wasn't so big with multiple threads and multiple sub-threads, I just don't have the time of inclination to read more than just a few.
"The more the words, the less the meaning,and how does that profit anyone?" (Ecc 6:11)
Thanks, I see somebody claimed in that thread that Francis never said it at all, to which I'd say "Prove he never said it"..
PS- I wish CF wasn't so big with multiple threads and multiple sub-threads, I just don't have the time of inclination to read more than just a few.
"The more the words, the less the meaning,and how does that profit anyone?" (Ecc 6:11)
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timothyu
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Acts 19:8 He (Paul) went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the Kingdom of God
Acts 28: 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
Acts 28: 30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, 31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
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1Tonne
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St Worm2 was the person who posted that St Francis never said it. But I have also seen articles and videos that say he never said it. You can Google it yourself. Even the Catholic church has investigated it, too, and they have said that there was no evidence. The evidence was that he taught that we should speak the Gospel. But either way, if he said it or not, that does not matter. The point that St Worm2 was making is that we need to use more than actions to say the Gospel. The Gospel is a spoken message. Blessing people is good, but no matter how much you bless them, they still need the Gospel spoken. How will they hear without a preacher?Thanks, I see somebody claimed in that thread that Francis never said it at all, to which I'd say "Prove he never said it"..
The Gospel, as Paul defines it in 1 Corinthians 15, is the death and resurrection of Jesus for our sins. That’s the saving message. The kingdom of God is the result of that message taking root—it’s what happens when people submit to Jesus as King. But the kingdom isn’t the content of the Gospel message—it’s the fruit of it.
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timothyu
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Jesus would argue that. It was, as the scripture says His personal Gospel. He refers to it over 70 times in scripture. He mentions it in the Lord's Prayer twice. No way around it though many try.
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1Tonne
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He absolutely did speak a lot about the kingdom of God. No one’s denying its importance.
But here’s the thing: Paul explicitly defines the Gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1–4:
“…that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day…”
Paul calls this “the Gospel.” That’s the saving message we’re to preach (see also Romans 1:16. The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation.
Now, Jesus did preach “the gospel of the kingdom,” but that was before His death and resurrection. He hadn’t yet revealed the full scope of His mission. After His resurrection, He sent His disciples to proclaim a more complete message:
“…that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name…” (Luke 24:46–47)
So when Paul—writing after the resurrection—says this is the Gospel that saves, we should take that seriously.
The kingdom of God is the result of the Gospel of Jesus dying on the cross. It’s what we’re brought into when we believe. The Gospel itself is centred on Jesus’ death and resurrection.
If we say, “the Gospel is the kingdom,” we lose the cross. And without the cross and resurrection, we don’t have good news.
When Jesus preached the kingdom of God, He was declaring that God's reign was beginning to break into the world through Him—in His miracles, His teachings, and His authority over sin, sickness, and Satan. He was inviting people to repent and believe so they could enter that kingdom.
But it’s important to see that Jesus didn’t reveal the full Gospel—the cross and resurrection—until later. In fact, when He finally explained that He had to suffer and die, even His own disciples didn’t understand or accept it (Luke 9:22, 44–45).
That’s why, after the resurrection, the message becomes crystal clear:
“This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name…” (Luke 24:46–47)
That’s the Gospel message that saves—Paul says it plainly in 1 Corinthians 15:1–4
"Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures"
This message was given to him by Jesus. So, we should not ignore it.
Galatians 1:11–12 “For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man's gospel. For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.”
So yes, Jesus spoke a lot about the kingdom, but His death and resurrection are what make the kingdom accessible to us. Without the cross, there’s no way in. The kingdom is the goal, but the Gospel is the way.
That’s why I’d say the Gospel is not simply “the kingdom of God,” but the good news of how we can enter it—through Jesus’ death and resurrection.
NOTE: I may not be able to respond to any responses as I am heading away sometime today. I will be away for a number of days.
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Maori Aussie
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After the destruction of the Temple in 70AD, the survivors of one of the 24 courses of priests were sent there.I've seen articles and vids that say Nazareth never existed in Jesus's time but that's been easily debunked..
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Hello again Scoutship/@1Tonne, along with the evidence from history (demonstrating that Francis never wrote or spoke the words of the quote in question), perhaps what is most important to understand is that the life that Francis led as an itinerant preacher simply does not align with the sentiment of that now famous/infamous saying that has been attributed to him. He went from village to village to village each day of the week preaching the word of God to whoever would listen to him, whether man or beast, apparentlyI've seen articles and vids that say Nazareth never existed in Jesus's time but that's been easily debunked..
So, preaching/teaching/speaking the truth of the Gospel to others (using words) is what he did/what his ministry was all about, day in and day out.
There's another point that I'd like to make about the quote (a personal observation), but I think that I'll do that in my next post.
God bless you!!
--David
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