Why John 6:37-40 Can’t Support Eternal Security

BNR32FAN said:

Then why FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DID PAUL WRITE IF WE DENY HIM, HE WILL DENY US? Where did Paul get this from?

““Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10‬:‭32‬-‭33‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

What does it mean when Christ denies someone before The Father? Did you watch the video at all?

Click to expand...

both verses point to the importance of remaining faithful to Christ. This isn’t about an occasional stumble or moment of doubt but about a deliberate rejection of Jesus, which will result in being denied by Him at the end of time.

Clare73 said:

Those with eternal life do not stop believing.

If they stop believing it is because they were not born again, do not have eternal life and, therefore, their faith was counterfeit.

Click to expand...

Amen!....Praise God...Born Again of imperishable seed that liveth and abideth forever.....

Flesh gives birth to spirit.

Spirit gives birth to spirit.

BNR32FAN said:

I’ve never said that anyone who has lost their salvation can’t regain it by turning back to Christ.

If it couldn’t be completely lost then their soul could never be in danger of death. If James taught salvation can never be completely lost then he wouldn’t be saying that a believers soul can be in danger of death because those are contradictory statements. They’re literally polar opposites.

Their soul was already saved from death the first time they believed. Now that they’ve turned away their soul is once again in danger of death, and if they turn back to the faith their soul will once again be saved. If they were already a believer before they turned away then their soul was saved at that time. Amen?

Click to expand...

Heree are a few points to address to help clarify the misunderstanding. The idea that a believer’s soul can be "saved" and then "lost" contradicts key teachings in Scripture about the security of salvation.

​

The passage in James 5:19-20 is not suggesting that salvation can be permanently lost. Instead, it emphasizes restoration. Here's the passage again:


"My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins." (James 5:19-20,)


This is about someone who has strayed from the truth—a person who is spiritually wandering, perhaps in sin or doubt. James doesn’t say their salvation was lost, but rather their spiritual well-being was in danger. The key here is that restoration brings them back to the truth, saving them from spiritual death, not from the loss of salvation. If salvation were truly lost, then there would be no need to talk about restoring them—Christ’s work would have been undone.

The Bible teaches that salvation is secure once a person believes in Jesus Christ. Several key passages affirm this:

• John 10:28-29: "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one wil snatch them out of My hand."
  Jesus promises eternal life, and He assures that no one can take believers out of His hand, which includes themselves. The idea that a believer can lose salvation is inconsistent with the concept of eternal life, which is by definition, permanent.
• 
  
• Ephesians 1:13-14: "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory."
  This verse speaks of believers being sealed by the Holy Spirit, which indicates that their salvation is secure and cannot be undone. The "pledge" of the Holy Spirit means that the believer is guaranteed salvation, and this guarantee cannot be lost by failing to remain faithful.

The Meaning of "Saved" in James 5:19-20​

In James 5:19-20, the term "saved" doesn’t necessarily refer to the loss of eternal salvation. It refers to spiritual restoration. The soul in danger of death here represents the spiritual state of the believer who has wandered from the truth, possibly engaging in sin, which leads to spiritual death. The goal of turning them back is to restore their spiritual life, not to "save" them again as if they lost salvation.

It's important to distinguish between spiritual danger and loss of salvation. A believer can stray, experience spiritual danger, or fall into sin, but true believers are still secure in Christ. This is not about salvation being lost, but about the consequences of straying from the truth. The warning is not about losing salvation but about the danger of spiritual death if they don’t return to the truth.​

The fact that someone can turn back to the faith, as mentioned in James 5:19-20, doesn’t suggest they ever lost salvation. It simply shows that God’s grace is still available to restore them. Repentance and restoration are part of the Christian journey, and even when someone falters or strays, God’s grace can bring them back. But this doesn’t mean salvation is lost; it means spiritual health is restored.

Summed up​

• James 5:19-20 does not imply that salvation is lost, but rather emphasizes the danger of spiritual death when one strays from the truth.
• 
  
• True believers are eternally secure in Christ, as affirmed by passages like John 10:28-29 and Ephesians 1:13-14.
• 
  
• Restoration (as seen in James) is about returning to spiritual health, not about regaining salvation that was lost.

Salvation is not something that can be lost once it is truly received because it is based on God's faithfulness and grace, not on our perfect performance. God’s faithfulness is what keeps us secure, even when we stumble.

RosieJack said:

Amen!....Praise God...Born Again of imperishable seed that liveth and abideth forever.....

Flesh gives birth to spirit.

Spirit gives birth to spirit.

Click to expand...

Flesh gives birth to spirit?. . .Typo?

RosieJack said:

Amen!....Praise God...Born Again of imperishable seed that liveth and abideth forever.....

Flesh gives birth to spirit.

Spirit gives birth to spirit.

Click to expand...

Indeed there are many many people who claim to be Christian but are not.

BNR32FAN said:

You still didn’t explain He will deny us. What does He will deny us mean?

Click to expand...

True believers will persevere in faith, but some who initially appear to be saved may prove to never have been genuinely saved in the first place, as evidenced by their apostasy (1 John 2:19). In other words, while someone might seem saved, a deliberate rejection of Christ shows that their faith was never fully genuine.

To summarize:

True believers are secure in Christ and will persevere.

Warnings about falling away are meant to urge people to remain steadfast.

Apostasy (deliberate rejection of Christ) indicates that the person was never truly saved, even if they once professed faith.


it’s possible for someone who appears saved to later reject Christ, but that rejection points to the fact that they never had a genuine, lasting relationship with Him to begin with.

BNR32FAN said:

Being sealed with the Holy Spirit is also mentioned in chapter 4 verse 30.

“Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4‬:‭30‬-‭32‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

But Paul’s not finished talking on this subject because noticed the first word in chapter 5 “Therefore”

“Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma. But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5‬:‭1‬-‭6‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

So these same believers who are sealed with the Holy Spirit can once again become sons of disobedience if they continue to grieve the Holy Spirit and the wrath of God will be upon them once again.

Click to expand...

Grieving the Holy Spirit is a warning against living in sin, not a statement about losing salvation. A believer who continues in sin may face discipline (Hebrews 12:6), but not the loss of salvation. The Spirit’s conviction is meant to bring the believer back to repentance, not to sever their relationship with God.


2. Sons of disobedience refers to those who live in continuous rebellion against God (Ephesians 2:2). Believers are no longer "sons of disobedience" once they are saved. If they fall into sin, they are still children of God but are called to repent and turn back to God.


3. The wrath of God is certainly upon sin, but believers are not under wrath because they are justified in Christ. Romans 8:1 says, "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." While believers may experience God’s discipline, they will never face the eternal wrath of God because they are secure in Christ.



summed up

Grieving the Holy Spirit doesn't mean a believer loses salvation but is a warning against living in sin. Believers are sealed by the Holy Spirit and secure in their salvation. If they fall into sin, they may face discipline, but they are still children of God and will be brought back to repentance, not condemned.

Longing to kneel said:

Apostasy (deliberate rejection of Christ) indicates that the person was never truly saved, even if they once professed faith.

Click to expand...

This conflicts with clear apostolic teaching: Simon Magnus....Scripture clearly states he believed and fell away

Simon believed and was baptized under the apostolic supervision of Peter and John. This is what the plain text says and means.

*******
Our Lord also said in the Parable of the Sower some will believe and fall away....
********

So then what is the basis for individuals in American Evangelism to believe a person who falls away, was never saved? Answer: They add to Scripture....they add an adverb or adjective that is not apart of the body of Apostolic teaching...as evidence with your quotations in you post.

Longing to kneel said:

True believers will persevere in faith

Click to expand...

Longing to kneel said:

True believers are secure in Christ

Click to expand...

Modern evangelicalism makes an artificial and false distinction between a believer and a TRUE believer. This distinction is found NO WHERE in Scripture and is used as a prop to promote some of their pet beliefs. This is a horrid distinction because it just causes confusion in the minds of Christians....especially new Christians. "Do I believe or do I truly believe?" So now guilt is placed upon young believer who ask the question: Do I truly believe?

So if a Baptist were to back-slide.....the answer comes back....well he didn't really believe.... Only God can make that call who believes and doesn't believe....and a Christian who thinks they can make call.....transgresses the First Commandment.

The usage of the adverb/adjective "Truly/True is an assault on Scripture for it allows an individual to arbitrarily without apostolic support to declare who did believe or not believe. Only God can make that call....

Furthermore, this false distinction turns the Gospel into Law....

• The Gospel states because you believe the promises of Scripture....you have assurance of Salvation.
• The Law states only if you TRUELY believe.....you have the assurance of salvation....so now the Christian is faced with a life of torment and guilt....Do I believe or do I truly believe? And how do I know I truly believe? Law. Law. Law.

Baptists and American Evangelicals are real big on Sola Scriptura....except with this disgusting example of adding an adjectives and adverbs to Scripture.

Ain't Zwinglian said:

This conflicts with clear apostolic teaching: Simon Magnus....Scripture clearly states he believed and fell away

Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere,​

Acts 8:21 You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God.​

Simon believed and was baptized under the apostolic supervision of Peter and John. This is what the plain text says and means.

Click to expand...

"Perhaps" the doubt (Ac 8:22) is of the sincerity of his repentance, and not of God's pardon if his repentance is sincere.

Ain't Zwinglian said:

Our Lord also said in the Parable of the Sower some will believe and fall away....

20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.​

So then what is the basis for individuals in American Evangelism to believe a person who falls away, was never saved?

Click to expand...

The saved cannot fall away, they cannot be snatched out of the Father's hand by anyone, including oneself (Jn 6:37, 39, 10:27-29, 17:12, 18:9).

They are saved by the power of God and are kept by the power of God (1 Pe 1:5).
God keeps only those whom he has saved.

Ain't Zwinglian said:

Answer: They add to Scripture....they add an adverb or adjective that is not apart of the body of Apostolic teaching...as evidence with your quotations in you post.
Modern evangelicalism makes an artificial and false distinction between a believer and a TRUE believer. This distinction is found NO WHERE in Scripture and is used as a prop to promote some of their pet beliefs. This is a horrid distinction because it just causes confusion in the minds of Christians....especially new Christians. "Do I believe or do I truly believe?" So now guilt is placed upon young believer who ask the question: Do I truly believe?

So if a Baptist were to back-slide.....the answer comes back....well he didn't really believe.... Only God can make that call who believes and doesn't believe....and a Christian who thinks they can make call.....transgresses the First Commandment.

The usage of the adverb/adjective "Truly/True is an assault on Scripture for it allows an individual to arbitrarily without apostolic support to declare who did believe or not believe. Only God can make that call....

Furthermore, this false distinction turns the Gospel into Law....

• The Gospel states because you believe the promises of Scripture....you have assurance of Salvation.
• The Law states only if you TRUELY believe.....you have the assurance of salvation....so now the Christian is faced with a life of torment and guilt....Do I believe or do I truly believe? And how do I know I truly believe? Law. Law. Law.

Baptists and American Evangelicals are real big on Sola Scriptura....except with this disgusting example of adding an adjectives and adverbs to Scripture.

Click to expand...

BNR32FAN said:

He also said that they will not have an inheritance in the kingdom of God.

Click to expand...

Jesus’ Sacrifice Was Once for All – If salvation could be lost, Jesus would have to come and die again each time (Hebrews 9:12, 26). But Scripture says He offered Himself once for all to secure eternal redemption.


2. Eternal Life Means Eternal – Jesus said, “I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish” (John 10:28). If someone could lose salvation, then it wasn’t truly eternal to begin with.


3. Jesus Will Not Cast Anyone Out – “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will never cast out” (John 6:37). If salvation could be lost, Jesus would have to go back on this promise.


4. Salvation is a Gift, Not a Wage – If a person could lose salvation, it would mean they have to maintain it by works. But Romans 6:23 says salvation is a gift of God, not something we earn or keep by effort.


5. We Are Sealed by the Holy Spirit – “You were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance” (Ephesians 1:13-14). A guarantee means it cannot be revoked.


6. God Keeps Us, Not Ourselves – “Who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation” (1 Peter 1:5). If salvation could be lost, it would mean God’s power is insufficient to keep us.


7. Jesus is the Author and Finisher of Our Faith – Hebrews 12:2 calls Jesus the author and finisher of our faith. If we could lose salvation, that would mean He started something He couldn’t finish.


8. Nothing Can Separate Us from God – Romans 8:38-39 declares that nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ, not even ourselves.


9. God is Faithful Even When We Are Not – “If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself” (2 Timothy 2:13). If salvation depended on our faithfulness, we’d all be lost.


10. Believers Are Predestined for Glory – Romans 8:30 says those He justified, He also glorified. There is no mention of some falling away in the process.


11. Sin Was Paid for in Full – Jesus said, “It is finished” (John 19:30). If salvation could be lost, then sin was not fully paid for.


12. God’s Grace is Greater Than Our Sin – “Where sin abounded, grace abounded much more” (Romans 5:20). If salvation could be lost by sin, grace would have a limit—but it doesn’t.


13. Salvation is Being Born Again – A person cannot be unborn once they are spiritually reborn (John 3:3-7).


14. Jesus Prayed for Our Security – In John 17:11-12, Jesus prayed that the Father would keep those given to Him. His prayers are always answered.


15. The Father Gives Believers to Jesus – John 10:29 says no one can snatch us from the Father’s hand. If we could lose salvation, it would mean we could overpower God.



These are clear, biblical reasons why salvation cannot be lost. If it could, it would contradict the very nature of God’s promises, Christ’s finished work, and the guarantee of the Holy Spirit.

Clare73 said:

"Perhaps" the doubt (Ac 8:22) is of the sincerity of his repentance, and not of God's pardon if his repentance is sincere.

Click to expand...

Unknown. Luke abruptly ends this pericope without any resolution to the status of Simon's salvation.

Ain't Zwinglian said:

Unknown. Luke abruptly ends this pericope without any resolution to the status of Simon's salvation.

Click to expand...

Not unknown:

The saved cannot fall away, they cannot be snatched out of the Father's hand by anyone, including themselves (Jn 6:37, 39, 10:27-29, 17:12, 18:9).

They are saved by the power of God and are kept by the power of God (1 Pe 1:5).
God keeps those, and only those, whom he has saved.