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Mary was a good person and had a sinful nature like all of us.

Jan001

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The disobedient are the non-believers. Paul is warning against associating with such persons who will only be a bad influence on them. That is not to say we are to avoid all non-Christians. To do so would prevent us from sharing the Gospel with them. However, those who live constantly in such sin are not to be our associates.

In 1 Cor 6, Paul is addressing believers taking other believers to court trying to settle through secular courts things that should be handled in the church. That is what verse 8 is addressing. The following verses are a reminder to believers to not fall back into their old ways and dishonor the Lord. It is not a warning against losing salvation. You left out verse 11, "And such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God."(emphasis added).

He is reminding them that they used to be fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, ... but were washed, sanctified, and justified. God has saved them and now they need to walk in their new life and not return to their old way of life.

I will continue to believe salvation cannot be lost but I agree that believers are to walk in holiness. The security of our salvation is not license to lead to sinful life. Those who have had their sins washed in the blood of Jesus Christ and be justified now walk in newness of life. These are calls to walk our talk and reminders of what we have been saved from.
What happens to the Christians who do not walk the walk until they die? What if they are seduced into doing evil and then they die while they are doing the evil with no time to repent?
 
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NotUrAvgGuy

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What happens to the Christians who do not walk the walk until they die? What if they are seduced into doing evil and then they die while they are doing the evil with no time to repent?
While we are called to repent, if someone dies before they can repent,, they are forgiven. At the moment of our exercising saving faith, we are washed of all our sins: past, present, and future. The washing of our sins is not conditional upon our future repentance. We will repent, as children of God, but should death prevent us from repenting, our sins have already been forgiven. God does not exclude us from heaven because we died before we could repent.
 
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Jan001

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While we are called to repent, if someone dies before they can repent,, they are forgiven. At the moment of our exercising saving faith, we are washed of all our sins: past, present, and future. The washing of our sins is not conditional upon our future repentance. We will repent, as children of God, but should death prevent us from repenting, our sins have already been forgiven. God does not exclude us from heaven because we died before we could repent.
Acts 8:22 Repent therefore of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you.

I think Scripture shows us that we must repent of the sin before we can be forgiven for the sin.

Baptism forgives all the sins on our souls at the time of our baptism. If we sin after that, we must confess/repent of these sins before God will forgive us.


1 Timothy 4:16 Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; continue in these things, for in doing this you will save both yourself and your hearers.

A very stern (hyperbolic) warning about how difficult it is to repent after falling away from the faith by a sin which gives much pleasure to the sinner (such as adultery, fornication):

Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, since on their own they are crucifying again the Son of God and are holding him up to contempt.
 
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RileyG

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I'm not convinced Mary sinned per the gospel of Luke and what the early Church taught. EVERY CHRISTIAN believed she remained ever virgin and worthy of veneration until AFTER the Protestant Reformation.

That speaks volumes.
 
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NotUrAvgGuy

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I'm not convinced Mary sinned per the gospel of Luke and what the early Church taught. EVERY CHRISTIAN believed she remained ever virgin and worthy of veneration until AFTER the Protestant Reformation.

That speaks volumes.
We know such a belief was voiced in the late second century. Before that, we really don't know. Not much survived from that time period for us to conclude anything.

The belief that Mary remained a virgin is based on tradition. The Scriptures don't definitively say although I think a good case can be made that she did have other children. It cannot be proven though one way or the other.

As a Protestant, I have no problem with the possibility that Mary went on to have other children. She was married and why wouldn't God have wanted His son to be in a traditional family with siblings? I see it as in no way detracting from Mary.

I would not say "every Christian" believed it. Some early church fathers never mentioned it in their writings. We simply cannot say for sure.
 
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RileyG

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We know such a belief was voiced in the late second century. Before that, we really don't know. Not much survived from that time period for us to conclude anything.

The belief that Mary remained a virgin is based on tradition. The Scriptures don't definitively say although I think a good case can be made that she did have other children. It cannot be proven though one way or the other.

As a Protestant, I have no problem with the possibility that Mary went on to have other children. She was married and why wouldn't God have wanted His son to be in a traditional family with siblings? I see it as in no way detracting from Mary.

I would not say "every Christian" believed it. Some early church fathers never mentioned it in their writings. We simply cannot say for sure.
My main problem if she had other children was Jesus gave her to the apostle John at the cross? She was elderly and had no one to take care of her.
 
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NotUrAvgGuy

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My main problem if she had other children was Jesus gave her to the apostle John at the cross? She was elderly and had no one to take care of her.
I would suggest that Jesus entrusted her to John because His siblings were not yet believers, but we can't say for sure. Mary had been among the disciples and around them, as well as Jesus. Jesus loved John and knew he would care for Mary as he would his own mother, and that would keep Mary with the Apostles and disciples instead of separating from them with a son or daughter who was not a believer. It was not just a matter of her physical well-being but her spiritual as well. I do believe in time, his siblings came to believe, but how long after His death and resurrection, I cannot say.

I realize that traditionally, a parent would be provided for by a child or relative. This was a unique situation though. Mary was the mother of the Son of God. After having witnessed His ministry, His death, and resurrection, how could she "move to the suburbs" and be away from her spiritual family? While I am sure she loved her other children, she loved and was loved by the disciples who had become as much family to her as her own children.
 
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RileyG

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I would suggest that Jesus entrusted her to John because His siblings were not yet believers, but we can't say for sure. Mary had been among the disciples and around them, as well as Jesus. Jesus loved John and knew he would care for Mary as he would his own mother, and that would keep Mary with the Apostles and disciples instead of separating from them with a son or daughter who was not a believer. It was not just a matter of her physical well-being but her spiritual as well. I do believe in time, his siblings came to believe, but how long after His death and resurrection, I cannot say.

I realize that traditionally, a parent would be provided for by a child or relative. This was a unique situation though. Mary was the mother of the Son of God. After having witnessed His ministry, His death, and resurrection, how could she "move to the suburbs" and be away from her spiritual family? While I am sure she loved her other children, she loved and was loved by the disciples who had become as much family to her as her own children.
I disagree. I honestly find it hard to believe. Rather, he was the only child.
 
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prodromos

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I do believe in time, his siblings came to believe, but how long after His death and resurrection, I cannot say.
Pretty much immediately.

Acts 1:12-14
Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a sabbath day’s journey away; and when they had entered, they went up to the upper room, where they were staying, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot and Judas the son of James. All these with one accord devoted themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers.
 
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RileyG

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Pretty much immediately.

Acts 1:12-14
Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a sabbath day’s journey away; and when they had entered, they went up to the upper room, where they were staying, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot and Judas the son of James. All these with one accord devoted themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers.
THIS!

Also, his "brothers" weren't really his biological brothers since nothing in scripture indicates Mary had other children. Especially look at the finding in the temple and the flight into Egypt.
 
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NotUrAvgGuy

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THIS!

Also, his "brothers" weren't really his biological brothers since nothing in scripture indicates Mary had other children. Especially look at the finding in the temple and the flight into Egypt.
While we can debate the meaning of the Greek word translated "brothers", it allows for the possibility that Mary did have other children. I would not agree that "nothing in scripture indicates Mary had other children." I think the possibility is there. There is a unique Greek word for cousins that was not used. The word used could mean cousins but could also mean biological brothers. At best, we can say it's possible, according to Scripture, that she had other children. That would not be a forced interpretation.

To me, this is not an essential doctrine. If you want to believe Mary had no further children, I have no problem with that. It is not my view.
 
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RileyG

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While we can debate the meaning of the Greek word translated "brothers", it allows for the possibility that Mary did have other children. I would not agree that "nothing in scripture indicates Mary had other children." I think the possibility is there. There is a unique Greek word for cousins that was not used. The word used could mean cousins but could also mean biological brothers. At best, we can say it's possible, according to Scripture, that she had other children. That would not be a forced interpretation.

To me, this is not an essential doctrine. If you want to believe Mary had no further children, I have no problem with that. It is not my view.
Ok. Fair enough.
 
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