‘Murdered In His Own Home’: Kentucky Cops Raid Wrong Home and Kill Innocent Man Over Alleged Stolen Weed Eater

BPPLEE · Monday at 11:23 AM

Belk said:
What are your thoughts on their criminal liability? Do you think they should be charged with some form of manslaughter or do you think loss of their job is enough punishment in cases such as this?

If they were out of their jurisdiction knowingly I think criminal charges could apply . They have no authority outside their jurisdiction and if they were they just broke in a house and shot someone

rjs330 · Monday at 11:24 AM

RDKirk said:
In the US Navy, when the Navy finds a problem, it searches for a solution. When it finds the solution, every ship is commanded to stop dead in the water, implement the solution, and will not get underway again until the solution has been implemented.

It might surprise you to know that the police do the same thing. They also have solutions for problems and fix those problems. One is to check and double check the address. But apparently THIS agency screwed that up.

In Navy arent mistakes made even though there are all.kinds of rules and regulations and training done to prevent them?

BPPLEE · Monday at 11:31 AM

Belk said:
I have not seen that claim. What I have seen is the claim that police are the wrong people to be dealing with things like homelessness and mental health issues and that the money for the police should be split out to provide these services.

I have seen bad policing and corruption but people love to catch the police doing something wrong.
I worked night shift and I got a take home car when I became a K9 Officer. I was asleep during the day and the car was parked at my house.
There were so many people calling the department to tell them there was a police officer staying home all day that they had to assign a person to handle those calls

BPPLEE · Monday at 11:33 AM

rjs330 said:
It might surprise you to know that the police do the same thing. They also have solutions for problems and fix those problems. One is to check and double check the address. But apparently THIS agency screwed that up.

In Navy arent mistakes made even though there are all.kinds of rules and regulations and training done to prevent them?

Changes in police policies across the board are usually the result of Supreme Court decisions

rjs330 · Monday at 11:36 AM

Belk said:
What are your thoughts on their criminal liability? Do you think they should be charged with some form of manslaughter or do you think loss of their job is enough punishment in cases such as this?

I know you didn't ask.me, but that's a tricky one. When someone is shot the person who.did the shooting is usually the only one that could be charged with a criminal offense unless someone ordered the shooting. That's typical of criminal charges. So should they be charged? Perhaps. If the state has a Negligent manslaughter charge that may fit, but it may not if the officers who fired had no idea they were in the wrong house.

But I will.say this. If they indeed were in the wrong jurisdiction then they all knew they shouldn't have been there. The other part of this is, that its perfectly legal to be in the wrong jurisdiction if operating either under a Memorandum.of Understanding or under the request or authorization of the agency who has jurisdiction.

So the officers who fired could be held criminally liable in some fashion in this case depending on the laws of the state.

The supervisors probably can't be held liable for any homicide if they didnt order the shooting. However they could be held civilly liable to screwing up everything else.

rjs330 · Monday at 11:38 AM

BPPLEE said:
Changes in police policies across the board are usually the result of Supreme Court decisions

Thats absolutely true. It can also.happen within Federal Court jurisdictions as well. Such as in 9th Circuit.

RDKirk · Monday at 11:39 AM

rjs330 said:
It might surprise you to know that the police do the same thing. They also have solutions for problems and fix those problems. One is to check and double check the address. But apparently THIS agency screwed that up.

In Navy arent mistakes made even though there are all.kinds of rules and regulations and training done to prevent them?

Rechecking the address... but it was the wrong address in the first place. The proper "solution" would address the possibility that they've got the wrong address...and that's also been long known to be a significant part of the problem.

A military unit says, "That other unit mad a mistake...let's not make the same mistake." That thinking doesn't seem to apply to police departments...until a higher political or legislative agency forces them to heed another department's problem.

rjs330 · Monday at 11:52 AM

RDKirk said:
Rechecking the address... but it was the wrong address in the first place. The proper "solution" would address the possibility that they've got the wrong address...and that's also been long known to be a significant part of the problem.

One of the things our agencied do is to take photos of the residence with the house numbers on it and insert those i to the warrants. That helps. Will that still.prevent something like this from ever happening? Nope it won't. Nothi g will, because human beings are involved and human beings make mistakes.

RDKirk said:
A military unit says, "That other unit mad a mistake...let's not make the same mistake." That thinking doesn't seem to apply to police departments...until a higher political or legislative agency forces them to heed another department's problem.

Thats not true. The military still has people get killed even after a mistake is recognized.

And police do the same things. Do all.of them.in every jurisdiction across rhe country? Probably not. But most do when they are made aware of them. Do you honeatly think a small agency in the north east section of Montana is aware of a mistake an agency in South Carolina made? How are they aware? If there is no one scouring the internet for all local news agencies across the US they arwnt going to know unless a court case comes out. Or a certain officer happens to see it somehow or it become national news.

In THIS case agrncies are VERY well.aware that they should be checking addresses and operating with their jurisdictions before executing a warrant. It's not a justice secret. THIS agency screwed that up. Thats on them and not on the entire profession.

BPPLEE · Monday at 12:39 PM

RDKirk said:
Rechecking the address... but it was the wrong address in the first place. The proper "solution" would address the possibility that they've got the wrong address...and that's also been long known to be a significant part of the problem.

A military unit says, "That other unit mad a mistake...let's not make the same mistake." That thinking doesn't seem to apply to police departments...until a higher political or legislative agency forces them to heed another department's problem.

I knew which house to go to because I had informants wired making buys out of the house and I conducted surveillance beforehand. I also made sure the address on the house matched the one on the search warrant and included a picture of the house in the affidavit for the search warrant.
I did everything I could to eliminate mistakes that could get the case thrown out or embarrass me
There were times where I assisted other departments and I didn't know where we were going, I just followed. In those cases if we had been at the wrong house, it fell on the people I was helping.
I was acting in good faith

Pommer · Monday at 1:43 PM

Let us list the errors:

Deciding to do a “solid” for a judge, by getting his property back
Deciding that 11:50PM was an opportune time to get the judge’s property back
Deciding that dispatch was wrong and going to the house they went to
Deciding to rush into the home that they decided to roust, @11:53PM
Surprised when homeowner in KY had firearms in his own home
Had to shoot homeowner for not complying with all of the orders being shouted by several officers
Circling the wagons

seeking.IAM · Monday at 2:19 PM

I suspect this one is going to be quite costly...in life, in dollars, in jobs, in mental anguish. and possibly indictments.

Trogdor the Burninator · Monday at 3:10 PM

Well, this is pretty much how I expected the "Having guns protects Americans from oppressive government" scenario to play out. Can we drop that whole ridiculous argument from the NRA talking points list now?

BPPLEE · Monday at 3:27 PM

Trogdor the Burninator said:
Well, this is pretty much how I expected the "Having guns protects Americans from oppressive government" scenario to play out. Can we drop that whole ridiculous argument from the NRA talking points list now?

Blame the poor man who had a gun in his own home.
Yeah, it was his fault.
Never let a tragedy go to waste, be sure to use it to push for gun control.

Trogdor the Burninator · Monday at 3:42 PM

BPPLEE said:
Blame the poor man who had a gun in his own home.
Yeah, it was his fault.
Never let a tragedy go to waste, be sure to use it to push for gun control.

Nope - not his fault at all. It would appear to be the fault of a badly trained and potentially negligent police force.

And it's the NRA and their supporters who keep bringing up the ridiculous argument about gun owners somehow defending themselves from government. Last week I saw a tiktok about random breath testing for drivers in Australia. Something pretty innocent, right? But there they were - all the US gun tragics in the comments, pointing out how oppressed we were, and how that would never happen in the US, because they didn't "give up their guns".

Personally, I hope the family of the murdered man in the OP sues the state and wins big, and a few cops get fired/jailed.

rjs330 · Monday at 3:55 PM

BPPLEE said:
Blame the poor man who had a gun in his own home.
Yeah, it was his fault.
Never let a tragedy go to waste, be sure to use it to push for gun control.

To be fair he was blaming the fact the man had a gun. Not the man himself.

BPPLEE · Monday at 4:39 PM

Trogdor the Burninator said:
Nope - not his fault at all. It would appear to be the fault of a badly trained and potentially negligent police force.

And it's the NRA and their supporters who keep bringing up the ridiculous argument about gun owners somehow defending themselves from government. Last week I saw a tiktok about random breath testing for drivers in Australia. Something pretty innocent, right? But there they were - all the US gun tragics in the comments, pointing out how oppressed we were, and how that would never happen in the US, because they didn't "give up their guns".

Personally, I hope the family of the murdered man in the OP sues the state and wins big, and a few cops get fired/jailed.

You are correct, there are idiots in every profession and in every cause..

JustaPewFiller · Tuesday at 10:50 AM

BPPLEE said:
It's like he said. The Navy is one unified organization under a command system.
The police are not. Every city and county have an independent department. Every state has a different department.
It's not a unified system like the military

I know I've came down hard on the cops in question in this thread - and it thank you for admitting this agency messed up here.

Agree things like this are the outliers.

Also important to remember. Each of those many individual departments vary in size, funding, training, leadership, "department culture", etc.

They may be a large agency with 1000's of officers or a tiny, local police department with less than 10 officers.

Your mileage may vary considerably between all of those departments when it comes to things like budget, training, professionalism and quality of officers they can attract and retain, polices, procedures, equipment, communications, how the department deals with the public, etc.

In other words, just like the quality of care you get at Mt. Sinai Hospital in NYC may be different than you would get at a walk-in clinic in Hazard KY, the very same thing applies when it comes to police departments.

Note: - I am not necessarily saying that is a good thing. But, it is a thing.

RocksInMyHead · Tuesday at 11:21 AM

seeking.IAM said:
I suspect this one is going to be quite costly...in life, in dollars, in jobs, in mental anguish. and possibly indictments.

Given the past track record with such incidents in this country, let's just say I have my doubts - aside from the mental anguish and the existing life lost, that is.

BPPLEE · Tuesday at 12:00 PM

RocksInMyHead said:
Given the past track record with such incidents in this country, let's just say I have my doubts - aside from the mental anguish and the existing life lost, that is.

Yeah, the police killed an innocent white man. No one will care much about that because Black Lives Matter

com7fy8 · Tuesday at 12:15 PM

I just read some stuff about this. There is report that neighborhood video shows the police knocked and yelled for the guy to open the door and show his hands.

If that happened to me and I could look outside and verify a number of cruisers were there . . . why would I stay inside with a gun ready to aim at whoever came smashing through the door?

I might do this if I have been trained to think the police are out to shoot people who keep guns. There are people who claim the Bible and who are saying you can't trust the police and need to have guns to fight the government.

But I understand that if the police knocked and yelled and had a number of cruisers so I could see they weren't just home invaders with fake "POLICE" coats, a guy who could home invade a judge's house could be dangerous.

Were they in another jurisdiction to assist? Small departments do assist in other jurisdictions. I did not read anything about wrong jurisdiction, but yes the wrong address . . . on the same street.

‘Murdered In His Own Home’: Kentucky Cops Raid Wrong Home and Kill Innocent Man Over Alleged Stolen Weed Eater

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