Is the existence of Christianity better for this world

Astrid · Dec 10, 2024

Aaron112 said:
I haven't seen debate help anyone on this forum ever. There's no standard of honesty and truth; so everything at best is mush; or perhaps quicksand not to be stood upon nor built upon.

It seems religion including so-called (worldly) christianity is in God's Plan and Word to fill up wickednesses throughout the world and nations of people , for final utter judgment.

As social progress, what is just

Cynicism is just the scabby side of naivete

Bradskii · Dec 10, 2024

partinobodycular said:
Personally, I consider Christ, and the churches that claim to speak in His name to be completely different things. As for the driving force in my life... it's always been Christ... it doesn't matter what some 'Profile' says.

If someone asked me for a list of people about whom they might read to get a heads up on living a good life, then Jesus would be near the top of that list. His father on the other hand? Not a big fan.

Neogaia777 · Dec 10, 2024

Bradskii said:
His father on the other hand? Not a big fan.

Which one?

No, I'm not talking about Joseph.

Bradskii · Dec 10, 2024

Neogaia777 said:
Which one?

No, I'm not talking about Joseph.

Me neither.

Jo555 · Dec 10, 2024

SimonPeter111 said:
Today I watched the final episode of Family Guy Season 22, which explores whether the presence of religion is beneficial to the world. Actually, I don't think I should be serious about a cartoon, but when I think about it, I do doubt the positive impact of Christianity in today's world, and my textbooks are telling me that Christianity hindered human progress during the Renaissance, and I would like to see more debate on that

Since I am not good at English, I decided to simply write down the two questions I asked to make it easier for you to understand：
1 What role does Christianity play in the world today.2 Does Christianity hinder social progress?

SimonPeter111 said:

Today I watched the final episode of Family Guy Season 22, which explores whether the presence of religion is beneficial to the world. Actually, I don't think I should be serious about a cartoon, but when I think about it, I do doubt the positive impact of Christianity in today's world, and my textbooks are telling me that Christianity hindered human progress during the Renaissance, and I would like to see more debate on that

Since I am not good at English, I decided to simply write down the two questions I asked to make it easier for you to understand：
1 What role does Christianity play in the world today.2 Does Christianity hinder social progress?

Click to expand...

Good questions. As I see it Christianity has the same role it has always had, to grow into the full stature of Christ and point others to Him as the Savior of the world.

True Christianity is not interested in anything else. We are not to promote anything, but Christ and becoming like Him, from glory to glory

Doesn't mean we don't speak up regarding injustices and such, but the goal is to eradicate sin in us through Christ.

Can that hinder social progress? Yeah, but that isn't the goal, unless the social progress is sin.

Sure, mistakes have been made, but as they say, doesn't mean you throw out the baby with the bath water.

The message is a message of reconciliation with our Heavenly Father through Christ.

Hope that helps.

Neogaia777 · Dec 10, 2024

Bradskii said:
Me neither.

I assume you mean God in the OT, who gave birth through Mary to Jesus flesh, or the man part/side of him, but of whom Jesus very rarely referred to as his father, and never his (or our) Heavenly Father.

Anyway, that father, or that one?

Bradskii · Dec 10, 2024

Neogaia777 said:
I assume you mean God in the OT, who gave birth through Mary to Jesus flesh...

That one.

Neogaia777 · Dec 10, 2024

Bradskii said:
That one.

You know he wasn't omniscient, right? And that Jesus actually renamed him, gave him a new role after him, that he was basically forced into by Jesus Christ, right? And that Jesus found out the truth, which was that there was another, always fully omniscient, true God of the whole entire true universe, of which the other one was not, correct? And when he found this out, claimed complete and total equality with that one, even as a man, etc, but also told the truth that neither one of them was as great or as high as this other One always was and always has been, correct?

I'm feeling prompted like I should stop there for now, etc.

Take Care @Bradskii

Jo555 · Dec 10, 2024

Jo555 said:
Good questions. As I see it Christianity has the same role it has always had, to grow into the full stature of Christ and point others to Him as the Savior of the world.

True Christianity is not interested in anything else. We are not to promote anything, but Christ and becoming like Him, from glory to glory

Doesn't mean we don't speak up regarding injustices and such, but the goal is to eradicate sin in us through Christ.

Can that hinder social progress? Yeah, but that isn't the goal, unless the social progress is sin.

Sure, mistakes have been made, but as they say, doesn't mean you throw out the baby with the bath water.

Hope that helps.

Bradskii said:
That one.

Oh hey Bradskii. I kinda missed you. Hope you are well. Did I stumble across another one? Must watch where I am going.

No worries. I'm not stalking you, and not into the light banter tonight. Maybe I'll run into you again.

Was nice seeing you though. Behave so Santa will give you a nice present this year.

Ok, so I got one in. All in fun though. I'll try and stay on the nice list for the rest of the year ... It is almost over, yes?

partinobodycular · Dec 10, 2024

Bradskii said:
If someone asked me for a list of people about whom they might read to get a heads up on living a good life, then Jesus would be near the top of that list.

That must be a pretty good list to try to live by, and not that it matters, but that's good enough for me.

Bradskii said:
His father on the other hand? Not a big fan.

Then again, maybe the first one is the kind of God that men would imagine Him to be, and the second one is the kind of God that He would actually be.

Bradskii · Dec 10, 2024

partinobodycular said:
Then again, maybe the first one is the kind of God that men would imagine Him to be, and the second one is the kind of God that He would actually be.

I do remember back in early days of my interactions with Christians on forums I might be asked 'Why do you think that about god?' And I had to explain that I don't. 'I don't believe that He exists. I'm only responding to what you think about Him'.

David Lamb · Dec 11, 2024

BCP1928 said:
No, just Christianity as a religion. Believing in the Gospel is enough to put anybody off Christianity as a religion. Who needs it? Matt 18:20

I wonder what you mean by "Christianity as a religion." The bible rarely uses the word "religion," but when it does it tends to mean the outward things that follow from believing in Jesus Christ. For example:

“Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, [and] to keep oneself unspotted from the world.” (Jas 1:27 NKJV)

How does Matthew 18:20 relate to your post?

SimonPeter111 · Dec 11, 2024

Astrid said:
It’s a very mixed bag.
Some sects are strongly in the negative.
There’s a whole spectrum.
Some may be mostly beneficial

Then there’s, “is this the way to heaven”.

But you asked about ”this world”.

Try this: if everyone knew and accepted that there is no
no God, no afterlife-
Would they keep going to church,
or might something more meaningful take the
place meeting and preaching?

I noticed that your region is Hong Kong, which means that I seem to be able to communicate with you in the language I am better。

If all people knew that there was no afterlife then they would just focus on the pleasures of the present world, what you are saying is ridiculous, first of all the example you gave is not appropriate, it could be argued that this is something that simply could not happen, maybe you are trying to get me to imagine a world where no one is religious, but I can't imagine it, there are other forms of religion that can fill people's hearts and souls, and people will still do things like worship, the People do need faith, and Christianity is one of the biggest. Secondly, and this is the most ridiculous point, I would laugh even louder if you think that people who don't go to church spend their Sundays trying to give to their communities and families, if people don't go to church and don't have a faith their minds are only focused on the world, just look at the young people in South Korea and Japan, they aren't religious, but can you say that their lifestyles are any more fulfilling than those who are devoutly religious? (At least the religious people don't watch porn at home until they die).

Also, what you call “meaningful” is a very subjective term. What does meaningful mean? It makes mean to atheism to attack Christians online and in reality, but what about other people who are not part of your group? Can you decide for them what is meaningful?

Let me summarize for you, first of all, what you call “meaningful things” are only meaningful in the sense that you think they are meaningful, and secondly, what you're saying is purely not about solving problems because the examples you give are inappropriate and uninspiring, and what you're saying is just about venting your subjective feelings, whereas I'm going to say that I hope that others to talk about the impact of Christianity on the world at large (preferably on a political level). Not for you to talk about the impact of Christianity on one person, I know you are asking about the world as a whole as well, but what you are actually asking is a personal question, and as we all know, some people will move on to more meaningful things (the ones you believe in), some will stop there, and some will get stuck in the muck, it's up to the individual.

So you didn't solve my question, I didn't say that Christianity is just better for the world, why else would I have come to ask? All I'm saying is that your rhetorical question doesn't solve my question.

SimonPeter111 · Dec 11, 2024

2PhiloVoid said:
What do we specifically mean by "Christianity"? What do we mean by "Progress"? These are important questions to answer in order to fully address the OP, but I'll leave these to the side for now.

For my part, and in looking at Christianity through various historical lenses, it seems to me that what has hindered human progress are Christians who are too dogmatic and literal in their interpretation of the Bible. It's their peculiar process of interpreting that has been the problem for the most part.

In other words, it's not the Christian faith itself that hinders the world's progress, rather it's the hindrance caused by some Christians who over assert an anti-intellectual mindset, refusing to learn anything outside the scope of an ultra literal adherence to a favored paradigm of understanding---whether that paradigm is drawn from the Bible alone or some past thinker like Aristotle or Karl Marx. It is this state of anti-intellectual stasis which contributes to the hindrance of beneficent progress, and almost anyone can suffer from this deficient state of mind, not just Christians.

Obviously, it's difficult to see that Jesus would approve of everything Christians do or have done with the truths of the Christian faith over the last 2,000 years.

You have the best explanation.

Astrid · Dec 11, 2024

SimonPeter111 said:
I noticed that your region is Hong Kong, which means that I seem to be able to communicate with you in the language I am better。

If all people knew that there was no afterlife then they would just focus on the pleasures of the present world, what you are saying is ridiculous, first of all the example you gave is not appropriate, it could be argued that this is something that simply could not happen, maybe you are trying to get me to imagine a world where no one is religious, but I can't imagine it, there are other forms of religion that can fill people's hearts and souls, and people will still do things like worship, the People do need faith, and Christianity is one of the biggest. Secondly, and this is the most ridiculous point, I would laugh even louder if you think that people who don't go to church spend their Sundays trying to give to their communities and families, if people don't go to church and don't have a faith their minds are only focused on the world, just look at the young people in South Korea and Japan, they aren't religious, but can you say that their lifestyles are any more fulfilling than those who are devoutly religious? (At least the religious people don't watch porn at home until they die).

Also, what you call “meaningful” is a very subjective term. What does meaningful mean? It makes mean to atheism to attack Christians online and in reality, but what about other people who are not part of your group? Can you decide for them what is meaningful?

Let me summarize for you, first of all, what you call “meaningful things” are only meaningful in the sense that you think they are meaningful, and secondly, what you're saying is purely not about solving problems because the examples you give are inappropriate and uninspiring, and what you're saying is just about venting your subjective feelings, whereas I'm going to say that I hope that others to talk about the impact of Christianity on the world at large (preferably on a political level). Not for you to talk about the impact of Christianity on one person, I know you are asking about the world as a whole as well, but what you are actually asking is a personal question, and as we all know, some people will move on to more meaningful things (the ones you believe in), some will stop there, and some will get stuck in the muck, it's up to the individual.

So you didn't solve my question, I didn't say that Christianity is just better for the world, why else would I have come to ask? All I'm saying is that your rhetorical question doesn't solve my question.

You wish to communicate with me?

As someone who has tutored ESL students,
here is a suggestion on effective communication.

Write short declarative sentences.

Your run- on sentences are difficult to read.
The longer they are, the more convoluted the
grammar and syntax.

Your message such as it may be got lost for
that and other reasons.

I did notice belittling remarks and
things you simply made up about me
Those, among assertions of other
“facts“ not in evidence.

I will respond again if you will extend the courtesy
of restricting yourself to the topic, and, to one or two
points that are clearly stated.

If, that is, youve some actual rebuttal
to offer.

BCP1928 · Dec 11, 2024

David Lamb said:
I wonder what you mean by "Christianity as a religion." The bible rarely uses the word "religion," but when it does it tends to mean the outward things that follow from believing in Jesus Christ. For example:

“Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, [and] to keep oneself unspotted from the world.” (Jas 1:27 NKJV)

How does Matthew 18:20 relate to your post?

Two or three people gathered together in His name is all that Jesus requires of us by way of organized religion. Anything more elaborate than that is a political rally.

SimonPeter111 · Dec 11, 2024

Astrid said:
You wish to communicate with me?

As someone who has tutored ESL students,
here is a suggestion on effective communication.

Write short declarative sentences.

Your run- on sentences are difficult to read.
The longer they are, the more convoluted the
grammar and syntax.

Your message such as it may be got lost for
that and other reasons.

I did notice belittling remarks and
things you simply made up about me
Those, among assertions of other
“facts“ not in evidence.

I will respond again if you will extend the courtesy
of restricting yourself to the topic, and, to one or two
points that are clearly stated.

If, that is, youve some actual rebuttal
to offer.

I am a Chinese people; I can use Chinese to expand my point clearer, my English is very poor, bec in my country we don't use English usually. Second, I admit that my words were indeed too emotional, but I believe I have provided what I need to refute, and I will retell if you need to, but I am not "simply making up some facts of you" if you have a point of view, pls making it clear rather than blaming it in such a general way.

Tropical Wilds · Dec 11, 2024

SimonPeter111 said:
1 What role does Christianity play in the world today.

Same role any religion or ethos does. Unites some, divides some, starts wars, ends wars, leads to progress, prevents progress, educates, prevents education, spreads tolerance, spreads hate, creates and facilitates good, facilitates and creates bad. Depends on the who, what, where, when of it all.

SimonPeter111 said:
2 Does Christianity hinder social progress?

Of course.

Astrid · Dec 11, 2024

SimonPeter111 said:
I am a Chinese people; I can use Chinese to expand my point clearer, my English is very poor, bec in my country we don't use English usually. Second, I admit that my words were indeed too emotional, but I believe I have provided what I need to refute, and I will retell if you need to, but I am not "simply making up some facts of you" if you have a point of view, pls making it clear rather than blaming it in such a general way.

Making things up and not even knowing you are doing it
seems like a worse problem than sketchy English.

I live in China, I do know what language is used most.

Being a Chinese woman living in China doesn’t keep me
from using good English.

I suggested a couple of easy ways
you could make your English more
intelligible. Take it or leave it.

But never mind, this convo is over.

SimonPeter111 · Dec 11, 2024

Astrid said:
Making things up and not even knowing you are doing it
seems like a worse problem than sketchy English.

I live in China, I do know what language is used most.

Being a Chinese woman living in China doesn’t keep me
from using good English.

I suggested a couple of easy ways
you could make your English more
intelligible. Take it or leave it.

But never mind, this convo is over.

All the communication we have has been ineffective, one of us has tried to deviate from the topic and go from discussing the problem to a struggle for English proficiency, which has proven the failure of your weak point of view, I don't believe that my words do not make you understand, if you cannot understand, there are many other ways to get to know me, Google translate is not an option? Unless you haven't thought about communication at all。In view of our ineffective exchanges, I have decided to decline further conversation

我必使灾祸临到人身上，使他们行走如同瞎眼的，因为得罪了我。他们的血必倒出如灰尘；他们的肉必抛弃如粪土。番1:17

Is the existence of Christianity better for this world

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